• Tired of adverts on RWI? - Subscribe by clicking HERE and PMing Trailboss for instructions and they will magically go away!

PAM312 VSF vs PAM1312 ZF???

Ganz21

Do not accept unsolicited offers
19/1/16
13
0
0
Please help choosing between PAM312 VSF or PAM1312 ZF !??
Which of these two watches looks closer to GEN on wirst (same colors and font of dial, inscriptions and digits like GEN) and also on backside too?? Does anyone have any possibility to compare these two watches? Thank you!
 

bangsters

I'm Pretty Popular
16/1/17
2,013
21
38
Either one is good IMO. I went with ZF 1312 since I also ordered a VSF 441. But also want the VSF312. In terms of the look of the movement, both have accurate balance wheel location. Just a matter of waiting for official reviews to get them classified on their quality. But I compared both with the gen counterparts, using multiple pics, and they look good.

Just my .02
 

Farslayer

Known Member
19/4/13
153
1
18
Please help choose between PAM312 VSF or PAM1312 ZF !??
Which of these watch looks closer to GEN on wirst (same colors and font of dial, inscriptions and digits ) and on backside?? Does anyone have any possibility to compare these two watches? Thank you!

If u cant tell being a forum member... others cant tell...


???iPhone??Tapatalk ??
 

Xsaf

Banned member, the goat does not approve
Banned
29/9/15
202
3
0
I would add to this list KW1312. Which one to choose :)
 

silverbloodkpk

Getting To Know The Place
1/2/17
99
0
0
Please help choosing between PAM312 VSF or PAM1312 ZF !??
Which of these two watches looks closer to GEN on wirst (same colors and font of dial, inscriptions and digits like GEN) and also on backside too?? Does anyone have any possibility to compare these two watches? Thank you!

On the back of ZF 1312 the gold spin wheel are much deeper than gen 1312, which can be spotted straight way by someone who knew Panerai. this is one thing I don't like. VSf 312 is much closer to Gen compare both on appearance and also movement


Sent from the RWI mobile app
 

pechspils

Active Member
4/9/16
350
12
0
On the back of ZF 1312 the gold spin wheel are much deeper than gen 1312, which can be spotted straight way by someone who knew Panerai. this is one thing I don't like.
Sent from the RWI mobile app

Isn't the dead giveaway that the balance wheel is at 11 (indicating an A7750) instead of 7 o'clock?
 

bangsters

I'm Pretty Popular
16/1/17
2,013
21
38
On the back of ZF 1312 the gold spin wheel are much deeper than gen 1312, which can be spotted straight way by someone who knew Panerai. this is one thing I don't like. VSf 312 is much closer to Gen compare both on appearance and also movement


Sent from the RWI mobile app
Any pics of the gold spin wheel bein much deeper? I thought they were pretty close, better than havibg the wheel placement at the wrong spot.

Sent from my HTC 10
 

mysterio

Mythical Poster
Advisor
19/8/08
9,794
864
0
On the back of ZF 1312 the gold spin wheel are much deeper than gen 1312, which can be spotted straight way by someone who knew Panerai. this is one thing I don't like. VSf 312 is much closer to Gen compare both on appearance and also movement

Sent from the RWI mobile app

Not even Angelo Bonatti himself could tell you straight away how deep the balance wheel is on a watch that is worn on your wrist. Only we obsess about the balance wheel on the right location, and now the depth, etc. Remember that in comparison to the newly released P.9000 movement by VSF, the P.9010 movement on the new PAM01XXX models are still essentially the old guard A7750, which essentially hasn't changed at all. We can count ourselves lucky that the location of the balance wheel which has been the sticking point of the A7750 and Seagull ST2555 movements has been changed on the P.9010 so now the A7750's balance wheel location is well suited for this purpose. I doubt the depth will reach the gen as the extra plates glued on the A7750 is the cause for the added depth. Unless the factories touch the A7750s parts and redesign some parts to be thinner in order to compensate for the plates, we won't see rep and gen being resolved anytime soon. Let's celebrate each small win as they come.

If you don't like how the movement looks, then don't buy the watch. Personally I buy the watch for how the watch looks first and foremost. Whatever improvement the factories do on the movement is just icing on the cake.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Valaj

bangsters

I'm Pretty Popular
16/1/17
2,013
21
38
I like the 111 i got because almost anyone can cone up to me. Admire the watch. Ask if they can tey it. And they won't wonder if it is a gen or a rep because it looks and feels like a gen. Even the reps where the balance wheel is on a different spot, only the most discerning of people would know that, and only if they know what to look for or have a gen to compare it with.... Now imagine that balance wheel on the right location, and that makes it even harder to tell.

Actually I have a buddy who has a bunch of nice watches. Tbh I'm not sure if they are gen or rep. But he wears them nice. Matches the watch with proper clothing, you won't even think twice if it's gen or rep.

Then there's this other friend, that no matter what he wears you'd think it's fake even if it's a gen. I guess it's how you carry yourself and predent yourself.

Just my .02.

Sent from my HTC 10
 

silverbloodkpk

Getting To Know The Place
1/2/17
99
0
0
Isn't the dead giveaway that the balance wheel is at 11 (indicating an A7750) instead of 7 o'clock?

Yep sorry i was indeed confused with 1312 with 312. The movement on p9010 is on the 11. I will try to look for a photo to see if the balance wheel on both gen and rep for 1312


Sent from the RWI mobile app
 

silverbloodkpk

Getting To Know The Place
1/2/17
99
0
0
Any pics of the gold spin wheel bein much deeper? I thought they were pretty close, better than havibg the wheel placement at the wrong spot.

Sent from my HTC 10

Yep they are pretty close here is the pic
f81af15481ad73fab8f89e80861fefc0.jpg
fe489e77fa5688e2a9b4aff38c37c21a.jpg



Sent from the RWI mobile app
 

bangsters

I'm Pretty Popular
16/1/17
2,013
21
38
Yes the zf 1312 is identical to gen. The vsf 312 is also identical to gen in terms of balance wheel placement and overall look.

Sent from my HTC 10
 

silverbloodkpk

Getting To Know The Place
1/2/17
99
0
0
Not even Angelo Bonatti himself could tell you straight away how deep the balance wheel is on a watch that is worn on your wrist. Only we obsess about the balance wheel on the right location, and now the depth, etc. Remember that in comparison to the newly released P.9000 movement by VSF, the P.9010 movement on the new PAM01XXX models are still essentially the old guard A7750, which essentially hasn't changed at all. We can count ourselves lucky that the location of the balance wheel which has been the sticking point of the A7750 and Seagull ST2555 movements has been changed on the P.9010 so now the A7750's balance wheel location is well suited for this purpose. I doubt the depth will reach the gen as the extra plates glued on the A7750 is the cause for the added depth. Unless the factories touch the A7750s parts and redesign some parts to be thinner in order to compensate for the plates, we won't see rep and gen being resolved anytime soon. Let's celebrate each small win as they come.

If you don't like how the movement looks, then don't buy the watch. Personally I buy the watch for how the watch looks first and foremost. Whatever improvement the factories do on the movement is just icing on the cake.

Pro reply thanks. I am newbie here please forgive me if any of my comments are being dump. Personal opinion ZF 312 great pro rep watch to buy 1312 intern of movement and position still great watch to buy. I am always hoping that the 312 or 1312 will launch better model such as noob 111 or vsf 441


Sent from the RWI mobile app
 

mysterio

Mythical Poster
Advisor
19/8/08
9,794
864
0
Pro reply thanks. I am newbie here please forgive me if any of my comments are being dump. Personal opinion ZF 312 great pro rep watch to buy 1312 intern of movement and position still great watch to buy. I am always hoping that the 312 or 1312 will launch better model such as noob 111 or vsf 441


Sent from the RWI mobile app

Well, I wasn't saying your comment was being dumb or trash (dump?). Just pointing out that it would be nearly impossible to pick out gen from rep PAMs nowadays without turning the watch around and how many among you would take your watch off of your wrist for a total stranger? So that makes the prospect of being called out on a PAM1312 that much less likely. First thing people would check is the thickness of the watch, as the PAM01312 is thinner by a few mm compared to the PAM00312, which is why the first PAM01312 rep was a fail (even though the movement was visually correct already). Anyone who had a passing knowledge of the PAM312 would know that the rep PAM1312 V1 was a replica on the thickness of the case alone (even though to spot that on a wrist at least 1 meter away is not that easy in itself).
 

Ganz21

Do not accept unsolicited offers
19/1/16
13
0
0
Thank you for your answers!!
But if the owner of GEN 312 or 1312 (who is sitting next to me at a meeting, for example)
could find out that I have a REP (312 VSF or 1312 ZF) ?? )))))) By inscriptions or digits colors or something else??
 

mysterio

Mythical Poster
Advisor
19/8/08
9,794
864
0
Thank you for your answers!!
But if the owner of GEN 312 or 1312 (who is sitting next to me at a meeting, for example)
could find out that I have a REP (312 VSF or 1312 ZF) ?? )))))) By inscriptions or digits colors or something else??

You'd probably be asking him what his RWI handle is. Hahaha

Honestly, if you're going to worry about someone noticing your watch is a rep in a meeting then maybe it's better for you not to be wearing it. Reps will always have little flaws that MIGHT give them away. But the owner's demeanor is the much bigger "tell" IMHO. ;)
 

silverbloodkpk

Getting To Know The Place
1/2/17
99
0
0
Well, I wasn't saying your comment was being dumb or trash (dump?). Just pointing out that it would be nearly impossible to pick out gen from rep PAMs nowadays without turning the watch around and how many among you would take your watch off of your wrist for a total stranger? So that makes the prospect of being called out on a PAM1312 that much less likely. First thing people would check is the thickness of the watch, as the PAM01312 is thinner by a few mm compared to the PAM00312, which is why the first PAM01312 rep was a fail (even though the movement was visually correct already). Anyone who had a passing knowledge of the PAM312 would know that the rep PAM1312 V1 was a replica on the thickness of the case alone (even though to spot that on a wrist at least 1 meter away is not that easy in itself).

True. Thank you for your kind advise mate. :)


Sent from the RWI mobile app
 

silverbloodkpk

Getting To Know The Place
1/2/17
99
0
0
You'd probably be asking him what his RWI handle is. Hahaha

Honestly, if you're going to worry about someone noticing your watch is a rep in a meeting then maybe it's better for you not to be wearing it. Reps will always have little flaws that MIGHT give them away. But the owner's demeanor is the much bigger "tell" IMHO. ;)

You right [emoji16]


Sent from the RWI mobile app