Pam 388/505 V2 issues

[ericb196]

It's very helpful that this issue with the glued false plates/bridges is being discussed because it allows members, like myself, to make a better informed decision before making a purchase.

Ofcourse, while the problems caused by the screws/plates coming loose are a real possibility i'm guessing that in reality the number of failures is actually quite small (though not insignificant!).

I was considering purchasing a model with fake decorated movement and glued plates but i'm finding it increasingly more difficult to justify the purchase when there is a known design flaw. If the flaw was merely aesthetic then it would be a much less serious "issue" but when it's a physical flaw it makes the possibility of mechanical failure just that....a possibility.

How feasible is it to actually screw down the plates/bridges instead of using glue? Is the movement itself making it tough to find a place for the screws? Is there an increased expense involved that is cost prohibitive for the factory?

The watches with the decorated movement look terrific but I think i'm in the camp of waiting for these to have screws instead of glue....

And in the meantime, i'll look at other watches like the 372, 390 and 127 as my next purchases....

372 has a decorated movement !

 

[MoreCowBell]

372 has a decorated movement !

Yes, I know

Which is why i'm at such a fight (with myself) over whether to buy the 372 right now!:beatahorse:



I also want to see what ALE has to say about the soon to be released NOOB 372 and whether it has reached super rep status as Puretime says it has (http://www.pureti.me/product/pam372-p-11-noob-best-edition-on-thick-brown-leather-strap-p3000/)

I am currently leaning towards the 390 but I might go against rationale thinking and buy both!......:thumbsup:

 

[marcogumbo]

It's very helpful that this issue with the glued false plates/bridges is being discussed because it allows members, like myself, to make a better informed decision before making a purchase.

Ofcourse, while the problems caused by the screws/plates coming loose are a real possibility i'm guessing that in reality the number of failures is actually quite small (though not insignificant!).

I was considering purchasing a model with fake decorated movement and glued plates but i'm finding it increasingly more difficult to justify the purchase when there is a known design flaw. If the flaw was merely aesthetic then it would be a much less serious "issue" but when it's a physical flaw it makes the possibility of mechanical failure just that....a possibility.

How feasible is it to actually screw down the plates/bridges instead of using glue? Is the movement itself making it tough to find a place for the screws? Is there an increased expense involved that is cost prohibitive for the factory?

The watches with the decorated movement look terrific but I think i'm in the camp of waiting for these to have screws instead of glue....

And in the meantime, i'll look at other watches like the 372, 390 and 127 as my next purchases....

CowBell...thank you for this post.
This type of issue in any watch needs to be brought up, and brought up by specific model, maker and version...so that it will be addressed, and hopefully fixed.
You don't have to read far to see endless postings and debates and reviews in laborious detail of specific issues that have only to do with the looks of the watch, and getting it as close to gen as possible...which is great, and helps all of us, and the dealers and factories to create a better looking watch. HOWEVER...this is all pointless if these fixes have the potential to hamper the performance of the watch. And any small "trinkets" glued on INSIDE the watchcase has that potential.
We can't forget that our first priority is simple....to have a watch that runs.
Without that, it really doesn't matter how good your lume is.

 

[marcogumbo]

I have to say again, that after removing the glued pieces the watch runs good. And the large decorative "P9000 plate" that covers the 7750 movement is very well made and screwed in place. The problem pieces are glued to the rotor. It should be noted, while I am at it...that there is really nothing to hold the rotor completely in place, as the screws are decorative....and the rotor itself, being just pressed on, can be dislodged with a decent whack on the hand. I had the opportunity to do this...but certainly don't recommend it

 

[MoreCowBell]

CowBell...thank you for this post.
This type of issue in any watch needs to be brought up, and brought up by specific model, maker and version...so that it will be addressed, and hopefully fixed.
You don't have to read far to see endless postings and debates and reviews in laborious detail of specific issues that have only to do with the looks of the watch, and getting it as close to gen as possible...which is great, and helps all of us, and the dealers and factories to create a better looking watch. HOWEVER...this is all pointless if these fixes have the potential to hamper the performance of the watch. And any small "trinkets" glued on INSIDE the watchcase has that potential.
We can't forget that our first priority is simple....to have a watch that runs.
Without that, it really doesn't matter how good your lume is.

I think your last statement is extremely on-spot.

A replica watch - no matter how close to gen - is absolutely worthless if it can't perform its most basic function - time.

While others here are seemingly happy to take a gamble on watches with known "issues" I am not.

What I am most interested in knowing is how much more of an effort and expense it would be to actually use screws instead of glue? It can't be that much more of an expense...right? So it must be the effort? Is it that the movement, itself, does not permit the screws to be used for more then just decorative purposes?

 

[pkw2704]

My 388 is on its way,

 

[nielsen]

Slightly off topic but thanks for the tips on Seagull versus clone 7750. My 505 arrived from Kuvarsit two weeks ago, and according to your input, it is powered by the Seagull (balance wheel at 6). Sounds like good news. Incidentally, the decorative plates are (so far) fine--and the watch is truly beautiful!

 

[marcogumbo]

Slightly off topic but thanks for the tips on Seagull versus clone 7750. My 505 arrived from Kuvarsit two weeks ago, and according to your input, it is powered by the Seagull (balance wheel at 6). Sounds like good news. Incidentally, the decorative plates are (so far) fine--and the watch is truly beautiful!

A gorgeous watch for sure...I would love to have a 505 also. Just keep an eye on those little screw-heads and the little plate on the rotor.
I originally ordered a Seagull, but the guy before me got the last one. Kuvarsit offered me a refund because of that but Im like...thats great customer service and I appreciate it, but send me a watch!

 

[Sultan Brunei]

I have to say again, that after removing the glued pieces the watch runs good. And the large decorative "P9000 plate" that covers the 7750 movement is very well made and screwed in place. The problem pieces are glued to the rotor.

Decorative plate very well made and screwed in place ?
Didnt you said it wasn't screwed ?

Slightly off topic but thanks for the tips on Seagull versus clone 7750. My 505 arrived from Kuvarsit two weeks ago, and according to your input, it is powered by the Seagull (balance wheel at 6). Sounds like good news. Incidentally, the decorative plates are (so far) fine--and the watch is truly beautiful!

I read on your thread, you said some problem with bad power reserve with your 505 ?

 

[marcogumbo]

Decorative plate very well made and screwed in place ?
Didnt you said it wasn't screwed ?

Sultan...there is a large decorative plate that screws down to cover the 7750 movement, to make it look like a P9000 movement. On top of that is the rotor, which is pressed on, and in the center of the rotor assembly there is a decorative 3-hole plate which is glued on. In each of those 3 holes is a tiny decorative screw-head, not a screw...just the head, glued into place. In the gen movement, this assembly serves to keep the rotor secured...but in the reps it doesn't serve any purpose but decoration.

 

[started]

I believe this insert piece to be primarily a spacer, so that the lugbar only goes in to the correct distance for the screw to seat properly into the lugbar cutout when tightened. This would be to address the issue of the lugbar assembly coming loose while wearing due to the screws not being seated in the correct place.
In the photo, if you were to divide this sleeve thing into 3 sections, the right side is hollow, of course, and the middle is cutout for the screw to seat, and the left side is solid...to space the lug-bar the correct distance from the inside back of the hole, and putting the screw right where it needs to be.
Hope this makes sense.

I've searched pics on gen radiomirs and it doesnt seem like they utilize these "spacers" like the reps do. I attached a pic of my replacement lug/screw set from noobfactory and you can see they use rubber/plastic "spacers" on their lugs instead of metal ones. I wonder which design (metal or silicone) is better?

 

[Sultan Brunei]

Decorative plate very well made and screwed in place ?
Didnt you said it wasn't screwed ?

Sultan...there is a large decorative plate that screws down to cover the 7750 movement, to make it look like a P9000 movement. On top of that is the rotor, which is pressed on, and in the center of the rotor assembly there is a decorative 3-hole plate which is glued on. In each of those 3 holes is a tiny decorative screw-head, not a screw...just the head, glued into place. In the gen movement, this assembly serves to keep the rotor secured...but in the reps it doesn't serve any purpose but decoration.

Thank you for the explanation. You've made me one step smarter. I'm sure most gen owners don't even know about this kind of details

Btw, in the gen assembly, is the rotor being 'pressed' on to the decoration plate too ?
If it is, so the difference is only the '3-hole plate' and '3 screwheads', right ?

 

[marcogumbo]

I've searched pics on gen radiomirs and it doesnt seem like they utilize these "spacers" like the reps do. I attached a pic of my replacement lug/screw set from noobfactory and you can see they use rubber/plastic "spacers" on their lugs instead of metal ones. I wonder which design (metal or silicone) is better?

Jaychou…we seem to have 3 different designs going on here.
The gen and Panatime, I believe, are the same, and use tiny grooved lug-bar ends with little rubber o-rings.
Noob factory appears to use a smaller diameter lug-bar end with plastic or silicone(?) sleeve/spacer.
KW uses a smaller diameter lug-bar end with a metal sleeve/spacer.

As to which is a better design, we need more input from other people…especially those who change out straps often. It appears that until recently these sleeve things didn't even exist.
My vote so far goes to the KW metal…you broke one of your plastic sleeve things from Noob already, right? And I have spent a good deal of time searching for a very tiny Panatime rubber o-ring that I'm sure the dog ate.

 

[Ruski91]

I purchased my replacement parts from panatime, and unfortunately the rubber 0-rings did not fit into the case of the watch for me so i had to use pliers and take them off. After i did that it fit perfectly.

 

[marcogumbo]

Thank you for the explanation. You've made me one step smarter. I'm sure most gen owners don't even know about this kind of details

Btw, in the gen assembly, is the rotor being 'pressed' on to the decoration plate too ?
If it is, so the difference is only the '3-hole plate' and '3 screwheads', right ?

Thanks, Sultan, but don't give me credit for knowing how the gen's work…I've never even seen one up close. I'm just betting that in a gen movement if you have 3 screws in the center of the rotor assembly the odds are good that is to secure that assembly…however it's done.
And the rotor is a part of the 7750 movement itself…the large decorative plate sits in between the movement and the rotor…it just for looks.

 

[started]

Jaychou…we seem to have 3 different designs going on here.
The gen and Panatime, I believe, are the same, and use tiny grooved lug-bar ends with little rubber o-rings.
Noob factory appears to use a smaller diameter lug-bar end with plastic or silicone(?) sleeve/spacer.
KW uses a smaller diameter lug-bar end with a metal sleeve/spacer.

As to which is a better design, we need more input from other people…especially those who change out straps often. It appears that until recently these sleeve things didn't even exist.
My vote so far goes to the KW metal…you broke one of your plastic sleeve things from Noob already, right? And I have spent a good deal of time searching for a very tiny Panatime rubber o-ring that I'm sure the dog ate.

you're right, i broke one of the silicone spacers things on my lug (hence the re- order of the noob screws/lugs setup haha). I actually have a 505 myself, but ironically, i like the strap enough to not change it to something else.
besides, seeing all the recent posts about kw screw and lug issues makes me a little hesitant to remove the lugs from the case. :facepalm:

 

[marcogumbo]

Well, I certainly am learning more about watches from owning this than any other watch I've ever had...
I dropped my KW388 in the sink, because that's what I do, and then noticed that the date wheel had become "dislodged".
I have never been inside a watch movement where the date wheel would be, but had a pretty good idea how it probably
worked. I made some tools and went to work.
I popped the dial off with the hands still on, so as to not damage the hands or dial, and to see just how far away the hands
would fly.
This is what I found inside…more glued on pieces! The datewheel was glued to a smaller datewheel underneath.
Someone else will have to tell me if this is a normal occurrence.
Glued the bigger wheel back onto the smaller wheel as best as I could, reassembled the watch, and it has been running great
since, albeit with a slightly off center date more noticeable the last two weeks of each month.
I am still happy with this watch, and highly recommend it to anyone wanting to learn your basic backyard watchsmithing.

 

[kayabun]

Well, I certainly am learning more about watches from owning this than any other watch I've ever had...
I dropped my KW388 in the sink, because that's what I do, and then noticed that the date wheel had become "dislodged".
I have never been inside a watch movement where the date wheel would be, but had a pretty good idea how it probably
worked. I made some tools and went to work.
I popped the dial off with the hands still on, so as to not damage the hands or dial, and to see just how far away the hands
would fly.
This is what I found inside…more glued on pieces! The datewheel was glued to a smaller datewheel underneath.
Someone else will have to tell me if this is a normal occurrence.
Glued the bigger wheel back onto the smaller wheel as best as I could, reassembled the watch, and it has been running great
since, albeit with a slightly off center date more noticeable the last two weeks of each month.
I am still happy with this watch, and highly recommend it to anyone wanting to learn your basic backyard watchsmithing.

The Chinese are good at cutting corners ... They can even make fake eggs

 

[marcogumbo]

The Chinese are good at cutting corners ... They can even make fake eggs

I love that stuff….great for camping!


My question to the experts…is this a fairly normal way to match a date wheel to a rep?

 

[ALE7575]

I love that stuff….great for camping!


My question to the experts…is this a fairly normal way to match a date wheel to a rep?

Why not ?
What is the problem
We are seeing more difficult and weird things in reps

ALE