Pam 1342 HWF

[locvs]

I was eyeing this. If SBF / VSF makes this one then I am all in. Although, we really need SBF to drop a new super clone movement.

At this point all new VSF/SBF releases are not worth the premium compared to HWF.

they still use the same wrong movement with the p9000 clone. The clone is great in terms of reliability, but way too thick for these new 44mm PAMs. And functions are wrong - jumping hour hand instead of a quick date change.

So hard pass for all new VSF/SBF releases.

 

[critical_]

At this point all new VSF/SBF releases are not worth the premium compared to HWF.

they still use the same wrong movement with the p9000 clone. The clone is great in terms of reliability, but way too thick for these new 44mm PAMs. And functions are wrong - jumping hour hand instead of a quick date change.

So hard pass for all new VSF/SBF releases.

Don’t disagree with you but I worry that us not buying new PAM releases may indicate a disinterest in the brand. Panerai is gaining popularity amongst the masses again after several years of decline. The factory should invest in the new movement for the long haul.

 

[JayBee0815]

At this point all new VSF/SBF releases are not worth the premium compared to HWF.

they still use the same wrong movement with the p9000 clone. The clone is great in terms of reliability, but way too thick for these new 44mm PAMs. And functions are wrong - jumping hour hand instead of a quick date change.

So hard pass for all new VSF/SBF releases.

Well, of course, if you only want reps that are technically close to the gen, you're certainly right. But I think your all-round attack is exaggerated. The 44 Submersibles from SBF are a clear step in the right direction and they are beautiful watches ... even if they are a bit too thick. If you can´t live with this flaw, that´s ok. i am pretty fine with the 1288 and the 1070 - great watches. I'd rather get reps like this than nothing at all.

That's complaining on a pretty high level. Also all AP-ROO reps are too thick and even the much praised Seamaster reps from VSF with their "superclone movements" have completely wrong functions. So what?
And about the price difference to HWF. The comparison does not arise, because SBF and HWF are not (yet) in direct competition. TTF also has a 44 Submersible on offer and the SBF is definitely worth the extra price. Nevertheless, these watches are offered by our TDs much too expensive. But this is due to the TDs and not to SBF. This rip-off is a topic for itself and does not only concern Pam-Reps.

 

[jonnybaws]

Well, of course, if you only want reps that are technically close to the gen, you're certainly right. But I think your all-round attack is exaggerated. The 44 Submersibles from SBF are a clear step in the right direction and they are beautiful watches ... even if they are a bit too thick. If you can´t live with this flaw, that´s ok. i am pretty fine with the 1288 and the 1070 - great watches. I'd rather get reps like this than nothing at all.

That's complaining on a pretty high level. Also all AP-ROO reps are too thick and even the much praised Seamaster reps from VSF with their "superclone movements" have completely wrong functions. So what?
And about the price difference to HWF. The comparison does not arise, because SBF and HWF are not (yet) in direct competition. TTF also has a 44 Submersible on offer and the SBF is definitely worth the extra price. Nevertheless, these watches are offered by our TDs much too expensive. But this is due to the TDs and not to SBF. This rip-off is a topic for itself and does not only concern Pam-Reps.

+1, totally agree JB

 

[KOT1917]

I’m on the list at Panerai for the genuine. The rep doesn’t use the thinner profile case set (same as the 510 etc). I own a gen 1084 which is the same sister set up. It’s very thin.

Not certainly in that way. The 8 day P.5000 cases like the one on the PAM510 are different from the newer P.6000 cases like the PAM1084. The latter are a little thinner, and have slightly different proportions if you look at the profile. But in any case, the replicas use the standard 15mm cases of the 6497-derived models. Perhaps, only cases of 8 days of ZF models, and some attempts of V6F/XF to a lesser extent, I could call successful in copying. For the P.6000, no suitable case sets have yet been made.

 

[Houstonanonymous8]

Not certainly in that way. The 8 day P.5000 cases like the one on the PAM510 are different from the newer P.6000 cases like the PAM1084. The latter are a little thinner, and have slightly different proportions if you look at the profile. But in any case, the replicas use the standard 15mm cases of the 6497-derived models. Perhaps, only cases of 8 days of ZF models, and some attempts of V6F/XF to a lesser extent, I could call successful in copying. For the P.6000, no suitable case sets have yet been made.

I love the thinner case profile over the older 15mm 6497 models. It wears great!

 

[locvs]

Well, of course, if you only want reps that are technically close to the gen, you're certainly right. But I think your all-round attack is exaggerated. The 44 Submersibles from SBF are a clear step in the right direction and they are beautiful watches ... even if they are a bit too thick. If you can´t live with this flaw, that´s ok. i am pretty fine with the 1288 and the 1070 - great watches. I'd rather get reps like this than nothing at all.

That's complaining on a pretty high level. Also all AP-ROO reps are too thick and even the much praised Seamaster reps from VSF with their "superclone movements" have completely wrong functions. So what?
And about the price difference to HWF. The comparison does not arise, because SBF and HWF are not (yet) in direct competition. TTF also has a 44 Submersible on offer and the SBF is definitely worth the extra price. Nevertheless, these watches are offered by our TDs much too expensive. But this is due to the TDs and not to SBF. This rip-off is a topic for itself and does not only concern Pam-Reps.

I do agree that the new models are a step in the right direction. Even if they’re flawed.
however I do not agree with the huge price increase on panerai.
PAMs now cost as much as VSF Sub and somewhat less than ZF 15500. And with those you get a high quality steel brachtet was polished quite well. With PAMs you’re paying for the head only as the strap is rubbish.

YES TDs are overcharging, but the markup on PAMs is insane.

 

[Houstonanonymous8]

I do agree that the new models are a step in the right direction. Even if they’re flawed.
however I do not agree with the huge price increase on panerai.
PAMs now cost as much as VSF Sub and somewhat less than ZF 15500. And with those you get a high quality steel brachtet was polished quite well. With PAMs you’re paying for the head only as the strap is rubbish.

YES TDs are overcharging, but the markup on PAMs is insane.

While I would agree mostly. You can get a genuine Panerai for under $4k. So spending $600-700 for a modded Panerai or even $2k plus for a franken makes zero sense to me. Now if it’s the $15k ones..sure go ahead. But most Panerai can be bought less than retail and most around 30-40% off retail

 

[KOT1917]

You have to admit that at the best of times, rep panerai were pretty cheap, both relative to gen and other brand reps, in terms of quality. This made sense, because, unlike the AP, the panerai is, for the most part, a pretty simple watch to repeat.
VSF gave a significant boost, due to the use of clones, as well as exotic materials, and this was also appropriate.

Current HWFs and TTFs, for the most part, base their prices on target VSFs and downstreams like XCF and others, and simply measure their price against the balance of market and benefits. I agree with the statement that their objective quality does not match the price, if we take the example of NOOB or HF 10 years ago, but at the same time, this is a fairly objective position in the market regarding alternatives.

HWF panerai for 6497 costs 250-300$, and certainly not comparable to the old NOOB for the same money, but at the same time, this is the peak quality point at the moment. You can buy what you have, you can buy an old m2m, or you can wait another 5 years until better models come out. Everything sounds reasonable. But in either of these cases, it keeps a reasonable price tag of $5k new for GEN. And even the SBF models, for $500, repeat the PANERAI for $10+k, which is also reasonable. Gen has really become quite expensive, and rep too, but this is a natural process.

 

[JayBee0815]

I do agree that the new models are a step in the right direction. Even if they’re flawed.
however I do not agree with the huge price increase on panerai.
PAMs now cost as much as VSF Sub and somewhat less than ZF 15500. And with those you get a high quality steel brachtet was polished quite well. With PAMs you’re paying for the head only as the strap is rubbish.

YES TDs are overcharging, but the markup on PAMs is insane.

But that´s an issue of the TDs and not of the factories. On the domestic market the new SBF Submersibles and the 1664 (carbon case and clone movement) costs around 2.100 RMB. That´s much money but pretty "cheap" compared with other Reps. The VSF Submariners are sold for 2.400 to 2.800 RMB, so they are remarkably more expensive. The Submariners from Clean are also sold for 2.700 RMB. I can´t remember the pre raid prices for VSF-Subs. But at the TDs the VSF-Pams with clone movements where priced around 370 to 400 US$. That was not much less the VSF Submariners.
And another point: The steel bracelet doesn´t make the price. The newer Daytona-Reps with Oyster-Bracelets are even more(!) expensive than the models with steel bracelets - same for the YM-Reps with rubber bracelets.