Noob question regarding waterproofing

[ROXOLO]

Hi,

First of all before someone comes and tell me "that is the rep game, if you're not happy go buy a Seiko instead": this is a theoretical / technical question, not an actual complaint (well, maybe just a little):

the rep market is flooded with Submariner and Sea-dweller replicas. The best ones are becoming more and more undistinguishable from the real thing. With clones that are so close to 1:1, what makes a replica unable to have a waterproofing deeper dan 5atm when the gen is 30 (or 100)atm? Where lies that small difference that ruins it? Why go all the way to cloning Rolex movements almost to perfection and being unable to clone the threads and seals that would make the replica REALLy waterproof? for a noob like me it seems a bit of a shame, but that's because I've never built a watch, and maybe the work that goes into making a watch completely waterproof are more difficult than cloning a movement? Or is it because there are too much variations in the casing and finishing of the watches?

Just trying to learn technical stuff here - I have a Gigandet G2 homage watch that I paid 78euro on eBay and it's (supposed to be) 20atm waterproof. Same for my Orient Mako. Of course those come from real factories and all but, if such cheeeeap watches manage to make it happen, then how hard would it be? Wouldn't it be great to NOT be forced to take off the Submariner before jumping in the pool?

Again, sorry if I irritated some of you guys; as I said, I'm interested in the technical side of things. The only rep I've ordered so far won't go near the water, and it's not a sub.

 

[Tobel]

5 atm is the pressure at 50m under the surface. Do you often go with your watch deeper than that? The reason that factories don't do better water proofing is because nobody cares, therefore there's no point spending time and money and this.

 

[tripdog]

Firstly, water proof watches don't exist, they are water resistant to varying degrees.

Machining tolerances are what makes the difference, and in Chinese made reps tolerances can vary from one batch of watches to the next.

50m doesn't mean you can 50m down with the watch, in fact it's barely more WR than a 30m water resistant watch - and that is only going to keep out splashes - you can't go swimming in watches that are resistant to 50m - you need a watch resistant to 100m for swimming :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_Resistant_mark

 

[ROXOLO]

Please someone correct me if I'm wrong, but to my knowledge (I've worked at a high end jeweler for a year) it is risky to swim with any watch that has less than 10atm waterproofing. Swimming and jumping in the water imposes instantaneous pressures caused by movement that can be greater than the static, fixed pressure measurements are meant to be. 5atm for me is washing-hands safe, probably shower as well, but that's it.

 

[muiramas]

Please someone correct me if I'm wrong, but to my knowledge (I've worked at a high end jeweler for a year) it is risky to swim with any watch that has less than 10atm waterproofing. Swimming and jumping in the water imposes instantaneous pressures caused by movement that can be greater than the static, fixed pressure measurements are meant to be. 5atm for me is washing-hands safe, probably shower as well, but that's it.

Yes, 10atm / 100m is the recommended minimum for swimming.

But the bigger pressures when jumping / diving is a myth.

in answer to the OP, reps are not 1:1 - they’re not even close. Don’t expect them to work like one.

 

[breitlingwatch]

Please someone correct me if I'm wrong, but to my knowledge (I've worked at a high end jeweler for a year) it is risky to swim with any watch that has less than 10atm waterproofing. Swimming and jumping in the water imposes instantaneous pressures caused by movement that can be greater than the static, fixed pressure measurements are meant to be. 5atm for me is washing-hands safe, probably shower as well, but that's it.

Yes. This is correct. when you are swimming the pressure of moving your arms through the water creates more pressure than just the depth of water you are in. If you really need a waterproof watch buy one that is intended for it. Unfortunately reps are not. I like to have them WR enough so I tango in pools and showers without worrying much about it

 

[tripdog]

Yes. This is correct. when you are swimming the pressure of moving your arms through the water creates more pressure than just the depth of water you are in. If you really need a waterproof watch buy one that is intended for it. Unfortunately reps are not. I like to have them WR enough so I tango in pools and showers without worrying much about it

I mistakenly clicked on 'edit' when I wanted to quote, but never the less, there is no such thing as a waterproof watch - it does not exist.

 

[breitlingwatch]

I mistakenly clicked on 'edit' when I wanted to quote, but never the less, there is no such thing as a waterproof watch - it does not exist.

Yes I agree. I mean HIGHLY water resistant. If you're getting to the point where you're actually deep sea diving you should be WELL versed in water resistant products. For the average rep buyer you should be just fine having your model "waterproofed" by your favorite modder

 

[Vvvlllooo]

Reps are made for looks..and for time keeping. Water resistance..well that’s another story. I would not recommend jumping on the water until you do get pressure tested. Both my reps, new, failed from the crystal. Reps tolerance not so good.

 

[rolexppapfan]

Guys you can get it water tested by a watchmaker and see where is the breaking point with out the movemet inside or you can take out the movement and go swim in the ocean jump .............. and at the end of the day if there is no water iside put the movement back get it tight and go swim

 

[Frederic Chopin]

5 atm is the pressure at 50m under the surface. Do you often go with your watch deeper than that? The reason that factories don't do better water proofing is because nobody cares, therefore there's no point spending time and money and this.

5 ATM is 50 meter, that‘s right, but it only counts if the watch isn‘t moved at all. Normally you should swim with a watch that has 10ATM at least.

 

[Eddio]

Yes, 10atm / 100m is the recommended minimum for swimming.

But the bigger pressures when jumping / diving is a myth.

in answer to the OP, reps are not 1:1 - they’re not even close. Don’t expect them to work like one.

Not a myth, happened to me just 3 months ago with a 300m GEN dive watch but contained "old" o rings. Just sliding in the water and then swimming was no problem at all for more then one time. But a jump into the pool from the side of the swimming pool instantly caused water to get inside the case. Dont see any big differences in the way the temperature dropped in both situations so it must have been a brief pressure difference that the watch could not cope with. Lume from the hands and dial got affected and it is now at the company for servicing.

 

[tanith]

as tripdog mentioned, the short answer to your question is "tolerances"

the tolerances in chinese rep factories are not strictly monitored or controlled, because they're generally good enough and nobody cares enough for them to do it
the reason its commonly recommended not to jump into the pool with your rep unless you get it tested, is because there's a chance your particular watch might not meet those tolerances

on the other hand, a good few of them will meet those tolerances, and if you were to take them straight into the water they'd be fine, like the gens
the seals and gaskets are all there, there's no magical ingredient that's missing other than having a guy in the factory that tests and checks the watches to guarantee they're all waterproof (oh, and throwing out the ones that aren't, but that costs them money so they don't)

 

[WatchSmith.US]

Some replica watches come with casebacks that are barely tightened. Some have poor crystal gaskets that leak. If all gaskets are good including crown, tube, crystal, and caseback, and the case has been accurately machined, then 10 bar water resistance is possible. The problem is the manufacturer doesn’t really care about that. Their main goal is to produce a convincing looking fake. There have no warranties or take responsibility for anything. Buy a Swiss dive watch and jump into the ocean.

 

[KJ2020]

I don't even let water splash on my reps while washing my hands and I store them with multiple packs of desiccant. I have never had a water or humidity related rep watch issue.

 

[RRWatches]

I don't even let water splash on my reps while washing my hands and I store them with multiple packs of desiccant. I have never had a water or humidity related rep watch issue.

Interesting. What do you use to wash the watches if not soapy water?

 

[Eddio]

Interesting. What do you use to wash the watches if not soapy water?

Hope i havent already guessed the answer on this. When you go that far to storing them in the presence of a dessicant why not just get them water resistant? In the end a watch is a tool not a trophy. And thus should be used as such.

 

[Eddio]

And yes i wash the dishes, cook, stick my hands in the oven, wash my hands, walk outside with the dog in the rain etc with not only my reps but also my Gens. And my Gen divers go with me swimming and into the shower occassionally. Not the reps, even standard 30 or 50m WR is not enough for that.

 

[FiliGelli]

I use all of my reps for swimming, showers, sauna, starpool, everything...
I can't wear a rep if i have to limit myself using it.
Also gold plated reps.
Off course, you have to check before everything said above, in particular the caseback that is always loose from the factory and all seals.
Some reps in my opinion have the same construction of the gen so i can expect a near gen like performance despite they are not, es:
Vsf 126610
Clean 116500
Vsf 116610
Zf Tudor Black Bay
Tc 16610
And many others...
I recently received a watch "waterproofed" with the invoice of the test where it was written 5 atm pass.
When it has been checked from the watchmaker in front of me it had the caseback completely loose but it passed the test.
For that reason i don't really care about the pressure tests and i prefer to test watches by myself in situations of real life.
My two cents

 

[Eddio]

I use all of my reps for swimming, showers, sauna, starpool, everything...
I can't wear a rep if i have to limit myself using it.
Also gold plated reps.
Off course, you have to check before everything said above, in particular the caseback that is always loose from the factory and all seals.
Some reps in my opinion have the same construction of the gen so i can expect a near gen like performance despite they are not, es:
Vsf 126610
Clean 116500
Vsf 116610
Zf Tudor Black Bay
Tc 16610
And many others...
I recently received a watch "waterproofed" with the invoice of the test where it was written 5 atm pass.
When it has been checked from the watchmaker in front of me it had the caseback completely loose but it passed the test.
For that reason i don't really care about the pressure tests and i prefer to test watches by myself in situations of real life.
My two cents

People are missing out on the fun of a watch if they limit themselves in normal daily use. The main reason for me to enter the Rep world was that i found out in my Gen hobby that when i go above 3000 euro value i am getting to conscious about the value on my wrist. And this limits what i call my carefree wearability. Loved my Tudor Black Bay Chrono but had to sell it, i always was aware of the position of the arm vs a wall or a door. Now i have that limitless feeling wearing for example the NWBIG 126600 Seadweller.