New Asian Panerai handwind mov'ts

[hooligan]

Robert, those have all the tell-tale signs of Asian movements. It's not just the flared-spoke balance wheels. It's the lack of the "dimple" on the small block where the mainspring connects to the regulator, as well as the overall finish of those movements.

I wait to be proven wrong, but until I am, I have to say that I believe those are 100% A6497s. I have never before seen an ETA 6497 that had the flared spoke balance wheel and was missing the "dimple" on the mainspring connector, etc.

 

[tootall]

Robert, those have all the tell-tale signs of Asian movements. It's not just the flared-spoke balance wheels. It's the lack of the "dimple" on the small block where the mainspring connects to the regulator, as well as the overall finish of those movements.

I wait to be proven wrong, but until I am, I have to say that I believe those are 100% A6497s. I have never before seen an ETA 6497 that had the flared spoke balance wheel and was missing the "dimple" on the mainspring connector, etc.

Oh really?? According to this thread, babola says they exist: http://replica-watch.info/forum/viewtop ... b&start=20

However, you can tell from my banter in that thread I agree with you hooligan.

I have never before seen an ETA 6497 that had the flared spoke balance wheel and was missing the "dimple" on the mainspring connector, etc.

 

[pete2528ca]

meh, generally if i want a swiss movement in my watches i buy an asian watch and swap everything onto an ofrie eta. done.

 

[brtelec]

I buy nothing but Asian. It quits working I pitch the movement and replace it with another cheap Asian movement. This eliminates all the problems with sourcing parts and hoping not to get screwed by an unscrupulous dealer or supplier.

 

[drfcfighter]

I buy nothing but Asian. It quits working I pitch the movement and replace it with another cheap Asian movement. This eliminates all the problems with sourcing parts and hoping not to get screwed by an unscrupulous dealer or supplier.

I'm thinking the same thing. The Asian movements are well made nowadays, and with the ETA phase-out, it will be too expensive to fix an ETA if broken. The glory days of ebauches are phasing out.

 

[hooligan]

Oh really?? According to this thread, babola says they exist: http://replica-watch.info/forum/viewtop ... b&start=20

However, you can tell from my banter in that thread I agree with you hooligan.

I'm not saying 100% that I'm right. babola has certainly seen and taken apart more movements than I have. Hence the reason I stated: "I have never seen..."

That is all beside the point, however. Until proven otherwise, I believe these movements are 100% A6497, period. If I'm wrong, I'll be the first to admit it...

 

[Rocketeer]

Rob's comment was that where possible parts not visually compatible with the Pam are replaced, including the balance assembly, to get the dagger adjuster and flared spoke balance wheel. It's not just the bridge plates that have been replaced with local made content.
I'll be getting some of these so I'll post a comparison with a basic gen ETA and a Soprod to see what parts are compatible and how the components compare subjectively in quality.

 

[tootall]

I want to be very clear here. I am not arguing the quality of a Swiss vs an Asian clone. I think the new Asian clones are better than the older Swiss counterparts. I am merely stating the difference in calling a movement Eta based when it is not.

That would be like calling an 4th Generation Omega Planet Ocean an Ultimate Planet Ocean. The 4th generation is a great watch, but it's not the Ultimate version. (this may not be the best example, so no need to dissect it by say "other dealers don;t call things ultimate, it's just a name the cartel has come up with" or something to that effect. I think by my example you get my point.)

 

[optimis9]

T4D are you from Thailand? If so I loved to be a live witness in this so call mod of the ETA in Bangkok. As I am living in Bkk.

It would also help me to get a good new rep dealer (you) too.

 

[Time4Direct]

T4D are you from Thailand? If so I loved to be a live witness in this so call mod of the ETA in Bangkok. As I am living in Bkk.

It would also help me to get a good new rep dealer (you) too.

This has to be a joke right?
Or do you really think I am about to give you a guided tour of where we do this illegal business from ?

 

[optimis9]

T4D are you from Thailand? If so I loved to be a live witness in this so call mod of the ETA in Bangkok. As I am living in Bkk.

It would also help me to get a good new rep dealer (you) too.

This has to be a joke right?
Or do you really think I am about to give you a guided tour of where we do this illegal business from ?

Take it easy.. I'm just trying to get to know a local dealer. Easier for me to buy.. So are u local?

 

[cybee]

T4D are you from Thailand? If so I loved to be a live witness in this so call mod of the ETA in Bangkok. As I am living in Bkk.

It would also help me to get a good new rep dealer (you) too.

This has to be a joke right?
Or do you really think I am about to give you a guided tour of where we do this illegal business from ?

LOL. You cant blame a guy for asking. On the other hand how about some guided tours for VIP members only. :lol:

On a more serious note, there are some aspects of the Asian clone version that are indistinguishable from some Eta parts.
When I did the cannon pin change I put a couple of Eta parts in the keyless works in this clone movement. Can anyone tell which parts were changed? NO. Besides they may have been made on Eta machines anyway I don't know.

Some parts such as the wheels and balance are much more obvious as cloned. I have long sinced stop paying for so-called "swiss" anyway. Changing how dealers advertise is a whole other matter but heck I only believe half of what I read on rep forums anyway, especially what dealers say.

 

[sexybeast]

so looks to me like many of our so called dealers are just trying to screw us, never saw that coming :roll:

 

[pdnb]

I know this maybe silly, but is the movement swiss if it has the circular cabaloc and non-tapered arms? I thought these were tells of the older swiss movement 6497-1s? This is what came on my "swiss" movement from DVSN. I think it is stamped ETA but if one things clear from this thread is that stamp doesn't mean anything. I thought I read here that the 6497-2s are really hard to come by and are exclusively used in panerai's and have the split cabaloc and tapered arms that the Asians replicate. thanks

 

[pamfried]

have been following this thread for quite a while and would like to know what are the mods doing in regards to this practice by dealers?

Noobs are to read up to prevent themselves from being cheated(by dealers) yes but hell its easy to fall prey to a dealer's words since they are approved, recommended, trusted (given the thumbs up) on the boards.

So whose responsibilities is it? Dealer's? Mod's? Noob's?

 

[hooligan]

have been following this thread for quite a while and would like to know what are the mods doing in regards to this practice by dealers?

Noobs are to read up to prevent themselves from being cheated(by dealers) yes but hell its easy to fall prey to a dealer's words since they are approved, recommended, trusted (given the thumbs up) on the boards.

So whose responsibilities is it? Dealer's? Mod's? Noob's?

The short answer, is that it is EVERYONE'S responsibility to educate themselves and each other about this.

The hard part about situations like this is that we have no proof that these movements aren't what they are claimed to be, let alone any proof that the dealers are *intentionally* misleading/misrepresenting these items. Tough to try to take any action based on a supposition or educated guess, no?

The best thing to do in this case is openly discuss the situation and wait for the pics that Robert has said he will supply as proof.

I *believe* these movements are A6497s, but I don't *know* that they are. There was a long time that people believed the clone 28xx movements were genuine ETA. don't forget. It is getting harder and harder to tell the difference between genuine ETA and clones, anymore. If it is failed to be proven that these movements are what they are advertised as, we will force the dealers to change their descriptions in their ads. What more would you have the staff do?