More discussion: Swiss v. Asian

[hooligan]

Oh, I agree 100%. I will continue to point out any discrepancies that I see, and I encourage the membership to bring any possible mis-labling of movements to the staff's attention. Once it's posted in the thread that the movement is most likely/definitely Asian, that's good enough for me. At that point, any potential customers are in-the-know.

 

[Klink]

[quote="hooligan I was just hoping to shed a little light on what I see as a growing/trending problem. :wink:

Yes I agree. I think we often give too much credence to some of these dealers. Heck I don't think they really know half of the movements they are selling or can distinguish the subtle differences anyway.

Cybee, you are too kind by far.. dealers who drop ship DO know exactly what they are selling.. this is the tail wagging the dog, the old "I have an excuse, I was robbed, I did not know she was underage" Bet your bippy they know.. after all, who was it that coinned the term "synthetic sapphire?" [smilie=druidd.gif] [smilie=wav.gif] [smilie=druidd.gif] is not a coincidence that it is greatly to their financial advantage to misrepresent.. in the many years I have been in this hobby, I have talked with many dealers and even suppliers.. each one has told me stories about 'the other guy', involving imitation eta.. with examples.. but the average consumer does not want to know or believe, and will not pay any attention to any proof at all.. the dealers receive samples.. and give them great scrutiny.. after all, it is their business, and to their advantage to know what kind of movement, fit and finish and crystal, etc.. so when 'synthetic sapphire' is sold, therer is a reason for the misrepresentation.. the same reason for other misrepresentations as well.. problem dealers are having is the growing awareness in the rep community.. but it is not that big a problem, because statistically the consumer is uninformed, to be kind..

so, no harm, let it be, let it be what it is.. those who know and give a rats

will do just fine, and those who do not care to know will be filled with everlasting imitation 'ETA' peace..until someone points it out.. and then it will be the fault of the dealer, and only the dealer.. lol Next chapter will be on used cars, kiddies!

:mrgreen:

Life is Good!

Klink

:lol:

 

[capice]

I saw a pic of a movement with a perfect copied ETAstamp from a GTGmember in Koln, so even with the stamp only a few people can tell if it's a real ETA or a "perfect" asian copy of that mvt....

 

[Klink]

Korrekt!



this has been practice for far longer than many would believe...

when a copy cannot be told from a genuine

Well,, then, it becomes

genuine.. lol

Life is Good!

Klink

 

[cybee]

[
Cybee, you are too kind by far.. dealers who drop ship DO know exactly what they are selling.. Bet your bippy they know..
:lol:

You were a dealer Klink so obvious you would know best...I stand corrected.

It's still dificult to for me accept LoL...especially after spending so much time analyzing the differences. Take for instance my SFSO which has a (supposedly) Eta 2824 in it. I have compared it to one I received from O'Frei which is the real deal of course, and part by part studying the finish, quality, the compatablilty and this is the kicker, a copy is NOT compatible with a real Eta movement, at least from my modest and humble experiments interchanging gears and wheels. They will not totally fit with a copy. If anyone has a different experience please share, I would really like to hear. But a modern 28 series Eta a lot of the parts are interchangable with each other, same size ebauche etc.

Now a few months back I decided i would only buy the CN movements simply because they are so good now and reliable. I am the biggest Asian fan there is and have always said "if you thinks it's real it is, if you thinks it's fake, it is." But with that, there really is a way to tell the difference. But who is willing to take apart their watch to see if it indeed is compatible with a real Eta, well if dealer has and dealer knows, hmmm then dealer lies...but do I care if they lie?? No not really, I take most advertising for what it is, a lot of BS...and from Chinese dealers, double the BS...right?

 

[cybee]

Is it just me or have some dealers stop showing pics of the movements?? I was looking at some Breitling's and no photo of insides...hmm curious.

OK so here is the ad for the watch: Superocean Asia ETA 2813 21J (28,800bph).

Now this is very mis-leading.Lie #1: To the unwary it suggests that ETA makes a 2813, but of course they don't.

LIe#2: The 2813 is chinese made, we all know that but maybe some do not.

Lie#3: And I hear this all the time referring to a 21 jewel. The 2813 is NOT 21 jewels, it has 22 jewels LOL but everyone even a lot of us refer to as a 21 jewel movement. Little mis-information here and there.

#4 is truth. The CN 2813 does beat at 28.8, so hoooray, 3 out of 4 not bad.

Now if the consensus is going to be from now on that NONE of our watches will have true Eta movements in them from OUR TRUSTED dealers then it's up to us to get the truth out right?? Because that's what we do, dispel propaganda and lies.

Sorry I just realized this the Panerai section...hope that is OK.

 

[fakemaster]

Is it just me or have some dealers stop showing pics of the movements?? I was looking at some Breitling's and no photo of insides...hmm curious.

No it's not your imagination. It's happening more and more. Back when the whole beginmariner movement thing came up. The mocement pics completely disappeared from the site. Then were eventually replaced with the actual movement that was in them. I have also noticed it on several dealer sites where the movement pics just seem to be gone. And usually it's on the swiss eta ones. Even so if what is being said is true, then there's no way to even know if the pics that are still there are what you'd really get. I reiterate at the vey least people should at least crack their watches open and get a visual.

 

[Klink]

eems like a good business decision (on dealers part)...

Not to name names, so the following contains no names, who used to be a good guy,

(maybe):

next thing will be a rise in cartel shills.. even worse than now!

Sad thing.. the business would florish with honesty..

[smilie=wav.gif]

 

[hk45ca]

here is what i can't get out of my head. we have these forums to protect ourselves from being lied to and overcharged by the likes of idealwatches.com. overpriced watches sold with propaganda and lies. i can't see the difference anymore. the very first rep i bought was from ideal and i still have it, it is the best rep i have in my collection. was i over charged and lied to? no more than what i see now from some of our dealers and the watch i received was better. was i screwed? i used to think so when i first found these forums but now that things have gotten worse i actually feel ok with my purchase. it is the only rep i have that has never broke or had to be worked on, it is a tw best/polex design and it is the best version of a tt dj i have ever seen. i have had it for about 5 years and the gold matches my 18k jewelry, i have only polished it maybe 3 times and it looks great. is it solid 18k like they claim? i doubt it but what ever it is it still looks good after 5 years so i am happy with it. when the cartel had tt dj's they were claiming to have solid 18k yg i only paid about 75.00 more from ideal than they were charging and theirs were chinese. it's funny how things change isn't it?

 

[Klink]

HK, you make a very good point..

it would be nice if your TT was still available.. at the end of the day you got a good deal..

it is strange, sometimes, this hobby..

nice post!

Cheers,

Klink

Life is Good!

 

[hk45ca]

well, i don't know if i got a good deal but i don't feel like i got screwed any more. since i like tt dj's i have been tempted to call them and ask if they still have these available because their prices have stayed the same while everybody else has raised theirs dramatically. i am in no way saying anybody should buy from them or anybody like them but only telling my experience and how it seems to be not so bad now that things have changed so much with our dealers.

i seriously have no complaints with this watch at all. this shot was taken yesterday while we were having a fly in at the airport i live on. the watch looks just as good as it did the day i received it and it has been worn more than any of my other watches, even my gens.

 

[R2D4]

this shot was taken yesterday while we were having a fly in at the airport i live on.

2 watches and a grill? Give my regards to Mr. Travolta please. He is in the house next to yours with the 737 in his driveway.

 

[cybee]

[ I have also noticed it on several dealer sites where the movement pics just seem to be gone. And usually it's on the swiss eta ones.

yep exactly... and like hk45ca says it's getting harder to tell the difference among dealers trusted or not, with the only exception being the price.

Oh sigh...you could probably count on one hand the number of people who care about all this anyway. It does tend to get a bit tiring and who is naive enough to think that any of these guys are gonna play with honesty, besides it goes against the whole nature of their business. To be honest about what they sell would be inferring a double standard.

I'm getting dangerously close to PW mode now.

 

[hk45ca]

this shot was taken yesterday while we were having a fly in at the airport i live on.

2 watches and a grill? Give my regards to Mr. Travolta please. He is in the house next to yours with the 737 in his driveway.

the other watch is my nephew's, it is a platinum marcus ruby chrono with diamond hour markers. he was actually doing the cooking. lol :lol: