MBW 16610

[SD4K]

Hey guys, a fellow Member offered me a MBW 16610 for a pretty good price. As I am not too experienced with Maria's Best Watches, I have some questions though.
How can I spot that it's really a MBW?
Does the 16610 version allow genuine 16610 parts, just like the vintage models?
How come, that I never saw a MBW 16610 - are they not as good or just more rare?
Thanks for your answers!

 

[pugwash]

Does the 16610 version allow genuine 16610 parts, just like the vintage models?
How come, that I never saw a MBW 16610 - are they not as good or just more rare?

MBW 16610s don't take genuine parts. In most cases, they're just noobmariners with ETA movements.

 

[SD4K]

Great. Thats what I suggested.
Thanks Pug, you saved me from a great disappointment.

 

[vmena]

Does the 16610 version allow genuine 16610 parts, just like the vintage models?
How come, that I never saw a MBW 16610 - are they not as good or just more rare?

MBW 16610s don't take genuine parts. In most cases, they're just noobmariners with ETA movements.

Can't be in more disagreement with this statement sir... I've had in my hands both watches and there's no way to compare: rehout, insert quality, finishing. One thing is what you see in pics and another completely different what you see (and feel) in person.

Nevertheless, noobmariner is a great piece for the price, bit still a bit far from MBW. At least from my personal experience.

 

[pugwash]

Nevertheless, noobmariner is a great piece for the price, bit still a bit far from MBW. At least from my personal experience.

The Noobmariner was an MBW, or did you forget Luckyyyyyyy was also selling them under the MBW banner with ETA and Asian 21j?

Now, if MBW also sold TW-Best subs, then that's a different story and a different watch. It's all very confusing, see.

Either way, they don't take gen parts.

 

[d4m.test]

There one and only one thing I'd buy the MBW for is the rehaut. Other versions just can't compare. Noobmariner's/Trusty's/so-called's rehaut is conspicuously shallower. Here're a couple of pics of MBW LV borrowed from RWG.

But (there's always a 'But'), the current version of MBW 16610 has a major problem. It's only on the upper CG:

I was trying to buy a MBW from another board member. He told me the problem and asked me if I minded that. It's also his reason for selling it. And he just bought it new from the dealer recently. I asked another member who bought his also recently. Same thing.

So check if the MBW you are buying has this issue. Ask for pics of the upper CG at this angle. Older version might not have this problem.
As for me, the pursuit of the perfect sub continues...

-bm

 

[vmena]

Nevertheless, noobmariner is a great piece for the price, bit still a bit far from MBW. At least from my personal experience.

The Noobmariner was an MBW, or did you forget Luckyyyyyyy was also selling them under the MBW banner with ETA and Asian 21j?

Now, if MBW also sold TW-Best subs, then that's a different story and a different watch. It's all very confusing, see.

Either way, they don't take gen parts.

You're right... I forgot the MBW "level 2" that luckyyy was selling. I was talking about the usual 1st quality MBW 16610. I compared the TTK's and the MBW (finishing, not movement of course) and it's easy to notice the different.

And definitely no modern MBW takes gen parts (even bracelets without a little mod!)

 

[haveblue]

look for the 'polex' engraving between the lugs....

 

[SD4K]

Thanks guys,
it's sold ( and not to me I'm glad), even though I find the topic still interesting.
I wanted a watch to play and mod - I guess I gotta look out for a vintage sub or sd.
Nice weekend!

 

[Jake48]

Does the 16610 version allow genuine 16610 parts, just like the vintage models?
How come, that I never saw a MBW 16610 - are they not as good or just more rare?

MBW 16610s don't take genuine parts. In most cases, they're just noobmariners with ETA movements.

Can't be in more disagreement with this statement sir... I've had in my hands both watches and there's no way to compare: rehout, insert quality, finishing. One thing is what you see in pics and another completely different what you see (and feel) in person.

Nevertheless, noobmariner is a great piece for the price, bit still a bit far from MBW. At least from my personal experience.

The Noobmariner was an MBW, or did you forget Luckyyyyyyy was also selling them under the MBW banner with ETA and Asian 21j?

Now, if MBW also sold TW-Best subs, then that's a different story and a different watch. It's all very confusing, see.

Either way, they don't take gen parts.

Well - I too have had both in my hand at the same time to compare. MBW has a deeper rehaut for sure, thicker bezel (like Gen), thicker case (like Gen), correct crystal height and is just all around a better finish.

Also, pictures don't do the type of StainlessSteel used on an MBW justice. It is much 'Shinyer" just lke Gen. The only bummer is the CG's are still too thick and it comes with a solid mid-link bracelet.

As far as Lucky selling Noobmariner MBW - What a joke! That is one of the reasons you will not find Lucky around anymore. He was selling a cheap CN grade sub and trying to pass it off as a MBW. Although he sold MBW's (if you were fortunate enough to get one after you paid him) his Asian movement "MBW" was never the real deal.

Some say MBW starts out as a TW best. I have also compared a Tw best to the WBW and Noobmariner. I can't say for sure if a MBW started as a TW best, but I can tell you with out a doubt the 16610 MBW is a lot closer to a TW best then it is a Noobmariner.

 

[tribal]

Does the 16610 version allow genuine 16610 parts, just like the vintage models?
How come, that I never saw a MBW 16610 - are they not as good or just more rare?

MBW 16610s don't take genuine parts. In most cases, they're just noobmariners with ETA movements.

Thats totally wrong,
The noobmariner has a totally other case small rehaut,other crystal etc...
Believe me i have them both...

The MBW case is the best case you can find out there to build a great FrankenSub..

The newer MBW 16610 has a thick safir with magnification about 3x, on older one the magnification is correct.

You can spot a mbw on the engravings between the lugs"polex desing"

 

[Bigshooter]

Nevertheless, noobmariner is a great piece for the price, bit still a bit far from MBW. At least from my personal experience.

The Noobmariner was an MBW, or did you forget Luckyyyyyyy was also selling them under the MBW banner with ETA and Asian 21j?

Now, if MBW also sold TW-Best subs, then that's a different story and a different watch. It's all very confusing, see.

Either way, they don't take gen parts.

Luckky was just using the term MBW as a marketing ploy, thats part of the reason he is currently drunk and selling canal quality junk at a booth in Guangzhou.

 

[Bigshooter]

Now, if MBW also sold TW-Best subs, then that's a different story and a different watch. It's all very confusing, see.

The MBW dealer I know lists a China, Taiwan Best and an MBW.

 

[d4m.test]

Now, if MBW also sold TW-Best subs, then that's a different story and a different watch. It's all very confusing, see.

The MBW dealer I know lists a China, Taiwan Best and an MBW.

Are you talking about George?
I looked at George TW stuff. I don't think it's TW Best though. They don't look very good.

-bm

 

[Jake48]

Now, if MBW also sold TW-Best subs, then that's a different story and a different watch. It's all very confusing, see.

The MBW dealer I know lists a China, Taiwan Best and an MBW.

Are you talking about George?
I looked at George TW stuff. I don't think it's TW Best though. They don't look very good.

-bm

The picture on George's site of the MBW LV is the LV George sold to me. You are right, it is not a TW best per se, but to be truthfull, I am not really sure what it started out as (it does say "polex" between the lugs). I sought out and bought this watch for a project to make a true "perfect sub" The reason I went for MBW is because of the case - (rehaut and type of metal)

To be really honest, the dial on that watch isn't very good. It has the old "swiss made" at the bottom of the dial that only covers three ticks instead of five, the triangle marker at twelve is the wrong size (too small), the date font is too bold and the cyclops is a little weak. In order to get the watch "perfect" I am going to have the dial replaced and relumed, the crown & tube replaced with Gen, the crown guards reshaped, the bezel insert replaced (although this watch came with a very good insert and pearl), the date wheel replaced and the cyclops replaced.

The main reason to start with a MBW is the case. Almost ALL of the current 16610 versions out there have one major flaw that the MBW does not have, - the overall case thickness ( top of crystal to back of case) and thickness of the lugs (you can see this when you look at the watch sideways). A Gen 16610 is aprox 13mm thick. Most reps are 12 -12.5mm thick. I have measured some TW best that are 14mm+ thick. The MBW comes in at 13.5mm. Even though it is not exact as Gen, if you are around people who wear Gen 16610's, and for whatever reason, where I work that is the watch to have, you can easily see that the Gen sits higher on a wearers wrist than most Rep subs. The MBW captures the correct look almost perfectly. Also, the other dead give away is crystal hieght. With the MBW you can obtain the correct hieght of crystal sticking above the bezel insert. Again, most rep 16610 have the crystal way too low (almost flush with the bezel insert). The crystal hieght should be about 1mm above the bezel insert.

I know there are scoffers that say "No way, you can not see 1mm," but trust me, 1mm here and 1mm there and the next thing you are saying is "I don't know what is wrong, but something doesn't look right."

The type of watch I am building is not to say it is same as Gen - it will always be a rep. I just enjoy the challenge and research to come up with the "Ultimate Rep" When this watch is done I will post some pictures. I have obtained the new dial, date wheel, cyclops, Gen crown & tube and bezel insert. I am now just waiting to save the finances up in order to pay for the relume & crown work. (I have wrecked enough watches to know better than to try this type of work!)

Anyways, hoped my research into this has helped a little.

Stay tuned...

 

[coop]

Who is this "George" and what is his site? Its not watchmaker9 is it?

 

[Jake48]

Who is this "George" and what is his site? Its not watchmaker9 is it?

"George" the guy I call the "Real George" is NOT watchmaker9. watchmaker9's name is George, and he will let you believe he is the "Real George," but he is not. Unless you want to pay twice for a rep that you can buy from other dealers here and elseware, stay away from watchmaker9.

The"Real George" is a very private individual who can be contacted by searching the Rep sites and being patient. As he is very private and each individual he deals with has to earn his trust on thier own merits, I do not feel it is prudent to give out his information.

Trust me, search with pateince and you will be rewarded...

His latest project is a MBW AP Offshore - search for this and you will find him.

 

[haveblue]

excellent post jake!

i just got finished with doing the exact same mods to my franken 16610 mbw as you plan to do to yours. i even dropped in a 2836-3 movement to replace the 21J eta to get the proper bps.

one point of note is that the gen insert sits too high on the rep bezel... the insert will either need to be shaved or the bezel milled to allow the proper crystal height.

i am looking for modders who have experience with this type of work.

 

[d4m.test]

excellent post jake!

i just got finished with doing the exact same mods to my franken 16610 mbw as you plan to do to yours. i even dropped in a 2836-3 movement to replace the 21J eta to get the proper bps.

one point of note is that the gen insert sits too high on the rep bezel... the insert will either need to be shaved or the bezel milled to allow the proper crystal height.

i am looking for modders who have experience with this type of work.

try joe (rbj69). he's an expert on rolex mods.

-bm

 

[d4m.test]

Jake,

I looked at George's MBW album. The MBW LV shown in the album has a badly shaped upper CG (the bottom looks like it's got chopped off a piece). 2 other members who recently bought confirmed it. I hope you are lukcy not to have gotten yours from that batch.

Instead of buying a MBW from George, I bought a TW Best black sub instead. It looks pretty much like the MBW except the CGs don't have the problem mentioned. The cyclop has a higher mag (like 3x) though. The crystal sits about .5 to .6mm above the bezel insert. It's because the bezel insert is just too thick. The insert is higher than the bezel. It should be very slightly recessed. After milling the insert (actually I'm gonna use a gen insert), I definitely will get the right crystal height. Having bought 5 subs previously (2 cheap ones from China, a new noob but already sold, a used LV noob, a Josh), I'm super happy with the TW Best. It's miles better than the others. Besides the deep rehaut (only slightly conical like the gen's), the bezel is not only good looking, but it's also tight and smooth. The case is polished very well. The bracelet is nothing to write home about. I put a very good spare from a cn sub on it and it's perfect fit. I have a noob dial to put in it and I will reshape the CGs.

-bm