Making this BP Kermit better

[mclarendude]

I bought this Kermit on the M2M this week.

Obviously, the biggest tell is the date position but I don’t care, it quenches my long time desire for a Kermit.

One thing that bothers me is the width of the tip of the seconds hand. It doesn’t get thinner close to the tip. It’s an uniform width from the lume pip to the tip. Reminds me of a yuki handset. This watch has a 2813 that’s running great.

The next is the bezel pearl. It has been quite some time since I have dealt with pre-ceramic pearls. Is Clark still making the best one out there? I’m certain fitting a better insert combo on this would be somewhat difficult so I rather just get a better pearl.

I appreciate your suggestions and can’t wait to spend my money on them, haha!

Gabe


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[KJ2020]

IDK about pearls for this one bro but I wanted to mention that these models have the bezel attached with the octagonal *paper clip" wire. These can be a royal PITA to get off so don't try to pry the bezel up, it will just bend. To get the insert out you need to decase the movement and pop the crystal. Then pry the insert up from underneath. Also these inserts are not gen-spec size, the OD is 37.4mm not 37.6mm. There are aftermarket inserts this size, just know what you're buying.

You don't have to take the bezel off to get the insert out, pics are just to show construction.

 

[mclarendude]

KJ2020 , I hate those! Happy I posted this before I even tried... Thank you bro!

 

[KJ2020]

I discovered a much easier way to reseat these bezels than feeding the wire back in one segment at a time. Bracelet protective tape can be used to anchor the wire back into the bezel groove and the bezel can be seated by hand. Then just cut the tape and pull it out. This tape is uniquely well suited to this task because it is extremely strong longitudinally to retain the wire and also very slick on top to facilitate easy removal. Double bonus!

 

[Countess Koscowicz]

I discovered a much easier way to reseat these bezels than feeding the wire back in one segment at a time. Bracelet protective tape can be used to anchor the wire back into the bezel groove and the bezel can be seated by hand. Then just cut the tape and pull it out. This tape is uniquely well suited to this task because it is extremely strong longitudinally to retain the wire and also very slick on top to facilitate easy removal. Double bonus!

Great work and lovely pics and explanation, cheers for sharing, I’ve heard about the tape method a lot before so nice to see it in action, I’ve never had to to change an aluminium bezel (yet) but building a 1680 later this year so appreciate the input

 

[mclarendude]

Bumpy bump


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[fpharryc]

Gen specs crystal is a direct fit for this case. The crystal gasket stays.

Also, if you are inclined to, a SH3135 is a direct fit.

So, with a new dial and hands set, a new pearl, a Clark crystal, you got an half decent satisfying 16610.

Don't bother playing with the bezel assembly. Leave it alone.

 

[mclarendude]

Gen specs crystal is a direct fit for this case. The crystal gasket stays.

Also, if you are inclined to, a SH3135 is a direct fit.

So, with a new dial and hands set, a new pearl, a Clark crystal, you got an half decent satisfying 16610.

Don't bother playing with the bezel assembly. Leave it alone.

Well damn. Sounds like a future plan to me.


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[KJ2020]

Gen specs crystal is a direct fit for this case. The crystal gasket stays.

Also, if you are inclined to, a SH3135 is a direct fit.

So, with a new dial and hands set, a new pearl, a Clark crystal, you got an half decent satisfying 16610.

Don't bother playing with the bezel assembly. Leave it alone.

You must be thinking about the JF bro.

Crystal on this BP is not gen-spec. It's 30.5mm, not 29.5mm. Additionally the dial has a native DG/ETA date window so a gen-spec crystal cyclops would not align with the dial date window.

An SH3135 has a considerably shorter stem height than a DG2813 - it sits much higher in the case and there's no way one could be used in this case unless you're going to weld/fill, re-drill and re-tap the tube hole.

But let's help the OP find a replacement pearl, that why he created this thread!

 

[fpharryc]

I respect your opinion, but you are wrong.

My $120 2813 BP is right here on my wrist with all the mods I mentioned.

No need to immediate claim I mistaken mine as JF.

You are basing your facts with out-dated old version BP that you have.

And, yes, I am trying to help OP.

Jesus.

 

[fpharryc]

 

[KJ2020]

I respect your opinion, but you are wrong.

My $120 2813 BP is right here on my wrist with all the mods I mentioned.

No need to immediate claim I mistaken mine as JF.

You are basing your facts with out-dated old version BP that you have.

And, yes, I am trying to help OP.

Jesus.

Sorry bro, a 3135 cannot share the same case as a 2813 without some serious modification. BP makes this model with a 3135, maybe that's the case you have.

I put a gen spec crystal on a 2836 one of these, it took 2 gaskets glued together to fit. And a new dial to align the date window to the gen-spec crystal cyclops. The BP 3135 version probably has a gen-spec crystal (29.5mm) IDK. It does have a gen-spec dial, with a Rolex (not DG/ETA) date window position. It has to, because that's where the datewheel is on the 3135 movement.

My BP 2836 is about 8 months old. Here's where the crown sits. Look how low the crown is and how the CGs are sloped downward to ensure coverage. This is completely different from where a 3135 crown sits and how the gen-spec CGs are shaped.

Stem heights

3135 / 2824: 1.8mm
2836: 2.25mm
2813: 2.5mm

You can't even put a 3135 in a 2836 case because of the stem height difference and the 2813 sits even LOWER with a GREATER stem height difference. Unless you make up for the difference somehow, like a thicker dial spacer. This would lower the 3135 enough to properly fit the stem through the 2813 tube but it would also cause the date to be grossly overmagnifed because of the increased distance between cyclops and datewheel. And it would leave you still stuck with a crown and CGs that are way lower than gen just like mine. One of the main reasons to choose a 3135 movement rep is so the crown sits at the gen height and the CGs aren't bastardized low. Why would you choose to do that? It would make much more sense to just buy the BP 3135 version, which is still available.

Feel free to post some pics showing your crown position, CGs, and datewheel. Ascertaining which case it is will be easy enough.

 

[fpharryc]

You are preaching to the choir.

Good for you, though, spending the time to educate.

The fact is, the current BP version 16610 case accepts 3135 and Gen crystal perfectly, even though the low cost version is shipped with whatever 21j movement in there.

This BP case has non gen specs bezel assembly. OP shouldn't bother playing with it. It does accept the Gen specs crystal with existing factory BP crystal gasket.

The rest of the case is pretty reasonable for what it is.

Why buy 3135 version? I like this cheap case as is, sir.

Allow me to remind you. OP is looking for opinions to upgrade HIS cheap BP from fellow members.

There is no reason to keep on disagreeing. Not everybody has time to spend all day posting on this forum, either.

 

[boaz_jachin]

I am in no way an expert modder, far from it... But i did some builds in the past years. I once tried to fit an Eta 2836 in a BP 16610 case build for the SA3135 but failed due to the mentioned difference in stem hight.

Regarding the OPs watch... The advice to leave the bezel alone is sound advice... Many years ago, before gen spec construction was even a remote dream... All Rolex reps came with the paperclip bezel... And its a true pain to get it off without bending... Not to mention reinstalling it. The BP case wont accept a gen bezel assembly as the crystal retaining ring would not fit without some serious case modding, so your options are limited in this regard. As you want to keep the wrong date position, gen crystals are no option as the cyclops wont line up with the date.

If i were you, i would source a good dial with correct date position, they appear in the m2m section quite frequently, then work with a DWO and a decent crystal with proper magnification. I would not bother with the seconds hand, it looks ok to me.

You could work with an Eta 2836, this should fit your case fine and you will have the proper beat rate of 28800 bph.

A nice bezel Insert can be sourced from eBay. Its no gen Insert by no means but a decent Upgrade. I use watch Material pearls on my inserts but keep in mind that the base of the WM pearls often is wider than the hole in the rep inserts, so you have to widen it a little

 

[boaz_jachin]

This is my kermit as a reference... A BP case and bracelet with clarks crystal, bp dial, noob datewheel and hands on a SA3135, New bezel assembly and eBay Insert with WM pearl

 

[mclarendude]

Thank you both, KJ2020 and fpharryc for your valued input.

boaz_jachin, thank you so much for your input as well. I'm not disregarding the upgrade for a better dial, movement, and crystal. Just not now since I have a few other projects on my desk.
Is your bezel insert a 37.4mm insert as KJ showed? I'd totally buy one along with the WM pearl (I had forgotten the WM name, I have dealt with them long time back.) Do you have a preference on which insert and or seller from eBay? Thank you once more.

 

[KJ2020]

You are preaching to the choir.

Good for you, though, spending the time to educate.

The fact is, the current BP version 16610 case accepts 3135 and Gen crystal perfectly, even though the low cost version is shipped with whatever 21j movement in there.

This BP case has non gen specs bezel assembly. OP shouldn't bother playing with it. It does accept the Gen specs crystal with existing factory BP crystal gasket.

The rest of the case is pretty reasonable for what it is.

Why buy 3135 version? I like this cheap case as is, sir.

Allow me to remind you. OP is looking for opinions to upgrade HIS cheap BP from fellow members.

There is no reason to keep on disagreeing. Not everybody has time to spend all day posting on this forum, either.

That case would never accommodate a 2813 bro.

Look at the difference between where the crown sits and where the CGs are between yours and mine. Again, the DG2813 sits LOWER than a 2836.

Also, I can tell from your front on pic that your crystal gasket is double thick, in fact it appears like two gaskets, you can see a seam in the middle of it.

I have put gen-spec crystals on several non 3135 BPs. Ones with DG/ETA date windows come with 30.5mm crystals, 1mm larger than gen-spec to allow for the cyclops to be be moved over 1mm to align with the date window. If the crystal wasn't larger the cyclops would be even closer to the edge than the already too close position that it's in.

This watch

Became this

By installing a gen-spec crystal in a case that was made for a 30.5mm crystal. It took two gaskets to do it. You can see the additional distance between the crystal and bezel, just like yours has. Look at the thicker gasket(s) on yours and the clearly visible seam between 6 and 8 o'clock.

My case with gen-spec crystal requiring two gaskets. As any case that ever had a DG/ETA date window dial in it would need.

I won't continue to disagree with you publicly, and you are welcome to the last word if you wish.

I can't state my case any more convincingly. These are my experienced opinions.

No rep case that previously held a 2813 will accommodate a 3135 movement without modification.

This is what a 2836 stem height movement looks like next to a gen 3185 (3135 base). Neither movement will fit the other case, that should be eminently obvious.

No rep case that had a DG/ETA date window dial will accept a gen-spec crystal without either a thicker gasket or two gaskets combined. The DG/ETA crystal has to be larger, and it is.

Cheers

 

[mclarendude]

Thanks KJ, my last question, do you guys remember WM's ebay store name or do any of you have a link to their listings? It has been years since I last bought a pearl from them.

 

[alessandri]

Wholesaleoutlet990

Been awhile guys.

 

[mclarendude]

Wholesaleoutlet990

Been awhile guys.

Thank you, kind sir!