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ALE7575

ALE7575

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omgiv

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Okay...now I am confused. I ordered a Noob 243 M series from one of the TD's and it came with the circled subdial. I would like to get one without them, but do they exist from the Noob factory and if so, who carries them?
 
ALE7575

ALE7575

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I think it is just a matter of luck, because there are dials with a without circles randomly.
I'm going to see mine under the lens,because I thought it didn't have circles but now I'm not sure.
Seeing pics of babola watch indicated by Niek I must reconsider things.

ALE
 
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tranzmizzion

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I have the concentric circles. I need a loop to see it and it takes a bit of time to see it. Honestly i cant see it from my naked eye at all.
 
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Naburus

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Personally, I do like the circled subdial, even if it's non gen-like, and see no big issue with it :) It gives a guilloche look to the dial :)


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ALE7575

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OMG!!

I have observed my PAM 243 V2 carefuly under the watchsmith lens and IT HAS CIRCLES !!
I didn't have noticed them until this moment !!
It is like babola pic almost no noticeable.

I'm very analytical as you well know, but I actually didn't have seen the circles in my sub-dial !!

I'm now wondering if the gen has also no noticeable circles.

They are almost imposible to see.

ALE
 
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PolonusTM

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Now I know that gen 243 and 299 models HAVE concentric circles on subdials but the amount of paint layer varies and most of the time - covers these circles and make them look semi-flat. When You flush gen dial with paint remover, they appear if full galore. They are not stamped but just micro-milled hence circles. Probably all PAM dials with subdials have them like that. So it is paint layer what rep makers get wrong.
 
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ALE7575

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PolonusTM said:
Now I know that gen 243 and 299 models HAVE concentric circles on subdials but the amount of paint layer varies and most of the time - covers these circles and make them look semi-flat. When You flush gen dial with paint remover, they appear if full galore. They are not stamped but just micro-milled hence circles. Probably all PAM dials with subdials have them like that. So it is paint layer what rep makers get wrong.
Click to expand...

Hi Polonus
This is an interesting info and maybe the final of this discussion
Can we consider this info as a definitive conclussion?
Where is this info coming from?
Do you consider I can include it in PAM GUIDe as a real and definitive info?
I would appreciate your opinion about this matter

Thanks
ALE
 
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PolonusTM

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That's the conclusion of my small investigation:
- gen owner of two Pam 104 when asked about it replied that subdials are different in this matter
- I saw gen Pam 299n this week in Paris: subdial seemed to be flat but when You look at it under strong light, the recessed area appeared different to the rest of the dial - hence I am sure it was not perfectly flat underneath
- it is all about viscosity and surface tention of a paint: regular circles, especially when distance between them is smaller than surface tension of liquid paint, can be flattened out by paint's layer except the subdial edge where distance from the edge to the bottom of the subdial is too big to overcome by paint's surface tension
- you cannot stamp subdial shape without bulging the area around
- the other side of my H-factory 243 dial doesn't have any signs of subdial being stamped in - so it was milled.

I work in paint industry so I know a bit about it and that's my conclusion.

It looks (when appearing flat) like this:

paint_subdial_zps5fff8a74.jpg
 
ALE7575

ALE7575

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Many thanks Polonus for your investigation

Your conclusions really make sense and your draws explain clearly the situation.

It is impossible to get an edged contour of the subdial by stamping, we need a milled process to get this edged contour.
Since the rep and the gen have both a very edged contour we can say that they are milled in the dial material.
Therefore the inner surface of the subdials must have a mark of the milling tools like a fine spiral (seemingly concentric circles)
As you said due to the viscosity and surface tension of the paint the milled marks are flattened by the layer of the paint more or less in different way depending mainly on quantity of the paint and also on the characteristics (viscosity and surface tension) of the paint.
In this way due to the usual differences in the manufacturing process of a replica, we can get from almost completely flat inner subdial surfaces to “textured†surfaces like concentric circles.
Since the gen has almost flat surface, and the manufacture of the reps has a lot of variations, it is a matter of luck to get an almost flat surface like the gen in our replicas.

Thanks again and closed matter
I will include in the PAM GUIDE those conclusions.

ALE
 
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nielsen

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You guys are just too cool! Fascinating! I'm wearing my Noob 243 V2 at the moment and peering mightily at the sub-dial with my 57 year old eyes. Looks perfect! No rings. I'll get the loupe out some time, just out of curiosity. Keep that critical analysis coming. If nothing else, your critical eyes force the rep makers to make ever-better replicas or face the wrath of Ale and the Experts--from which we all benefit!
 
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PolonusTM

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nielsen said:
You guys are just too cool! Fascinating! I'm wearing my Noob 243 V2 at the moment and peering mightily at the sub-dial with my 57 year old eyes. Looks perfect! No rings. I'll get the loupe out some time, just out of curiosity. Keep that critical analysis coming. If nothing else, your critical eyes force the rep makers to make ever-better replicas or face the wrath of Ale and the Experts--from which we all benefit!
Click to expand...

When the paint is applied with so thick fat layer - You need strong light to somehow penetrate the layer. That's when You start seeing difference between the bottom of subdial and the rest of dial.
 
ALE7575

ALE7575

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As said in another thread the sanankid pic is really from a PAM 024, because the PAM 243 is discontinued.
But you really think PAM 243 was different?

Please thoughts and comments about that??

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