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Little White Lies We're Supposed To Tolerate?

pugwash

Mythical Poster
30/4/07
7,211
40
0
When a dealer sells you a "1:1" or "Perfect" watch with a "Synthetic Sapphire" crystal and a "Lemania" or "Asian ETA" movement, what are you actually getting?

These are amongst the most common lies told by dealers. It's a war of escalation where one dealer mislabels something and then the others have to follow suite or else have a product that's perceived as inferior. Well, it's time, as a community, to stop the bullshit. We're here to stop people getting scammed, right? Yet we tolerate some lies because we assume people will realise the dealers are just using marketing language.

Here's the truth: There is not a single replica available from any of our dealers with a Lemania movement. Asian ETA movements, as sold in the new generation of reps, are not ETA movements at all. There is simply no perfect 1:1 replica of a Rolex Sub. The term Synthetic Sapphire should mean real, lab-grown Sapphire as found in genuine Rolexes, Omegas and the likes, but in some dealers cases, they use it to mean Mineral Glass, as used by bloody Timex.

I'd hate to have to ask every time I bought a watch if what they advertised was truthful or mere advertising, so please try to convince your friendly dealers (It's mostly Josh and Trusty, the most prolific sellers here, that use these lies with abandon) to stop bullshitting us. Using words like Ultimate or Best Ever is understandable, it's the usual hyperbole required to show your newer model is better than the last, but perfect and 1:1 mean something absolute.

They're getting worse and it's time to stop.

I'd love to hear your opinions on how we can deal with it, but we need to do something as just telling the dealers hasn't worked for me.
 
D

d4m.test

Guest
I've been collecting reps for over 20 years....and have yet to see an 'Ultimate' rep.......I've never had any 1:1 reps either....so I never describe them as such......where I used 'synthetic sapphire' in older ads...to mean exactly that...sapphire.......I now use the words 'genuine' sapphire .....same with movements.......without opening EVERY watch and investigating the mech.....I can't tell where the bloody thing is made.....they could be made by schoolkids in Kambi Bolongo for all I know.....and truthfully...I don't care......as long as the hands go round reguarly and let me know when it's time for G&T cocktails and dinner...who gives a shit.....I now use the term....'Asian clone'....!


The best movement I've found so far is this one.....!

























































































Mice_in_wheel.jpg
 

higgy

Respected Member
Advisor
17/3/06
3,410
3
0
TTK said:
The best movement I've found so far is this one.....

Mice_in_wheel.jpg


I don't know TTK.... I believe that gerbils are more reliable and run smoother. But in rugged sports model watches you gotta go with rats!!!!!!!!! Very durable..... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Higgy 8)
 

gioarmani7428

I'm Pretty Popular
2/9/06
1,406
50
48
NY
I never really took much notice of that--so even the newest Eta Subs, for instance, don't utilize real Eta movements? The crystal is only glass--I'm curious as to how to truly tell the difference; I thought water would bead up like a freshly waxed car on sapphire, but on glass it wouldn't? Hmmm...
 

ChocagoBears

Getting To Know The Place
27/12/06
97
2
0
Thats true. I would rather it say its the best one instead of perfect. because perfect means just that PERFECT. and we know thats not the case.
 

WatchDude13

Renowned Member
3/11/06
795
0
0
I'm with ya Pug. I recently got a rep that didn't match the pictures or description. I asked about it and was told, "Oh, we've updated since the pictures were posted". It didn't look like an upgrade at all and it wasn't the watch I ordered.

A bit miffed, but I thought I'd let it slide.

The kicker is I would have still ordered, but because I was misled - I was slightly disapppointed in the delivered product because it wasn't what I thought would be delivered.
 

Ferrariman

Renowned Member
19/8/06
834
0
0
Pug is dead on. Period. It's nice that we have the "feel good" attitude and the "community" of cooperation but the bottom line is this is an illegal trade. Illegal trades have bad people associated with them. Bad people lie. Kinda a no brainer, Right? I'm not saying the dealers are bad people but they are dealing in an illegal trade, just as we all are.

All that said we are still consumers and consumers in number drive the market. The issue is we have not the numbers to make a difference in most cases. I feel we get a good product overall. Marketing always stretches the reality, but the the level set is with the consumer. WE keep the market straight if "WE" is a big enough group. One must look past the lies and buy. Pug has brought to light the very reason many of us our here. I have learned more about watches on this site (gen and rep) than anywhere. This site gives us all the power to call bull shit on much of what is listed for sale.


If being apart of an illegal trade sounds ugly than stop buying. If you feel you are not apart of an illegal trade then you are only fooling yourself.
 

Ferrariman

Renowned Member
19/8/06
834
0
0
For some reason I was unable to edit my post so excuse me for the rapid fire on posting.

I just wanted to say that I have not bought a single rep that didn't have a lie associated with it. Don't get me wrong I really like all the watches I have but I can list the lies with each. I also know that for every lie I know about, there are more that I do not know about.
 

paulV

Active Member
4/11/06
317
0
0
If a dealer is fair he got my business,
if he's not....well,.. will happen just once. Illegal or not ! :shock:
 

road rash

Active Member
20/12/06
235
0
0
Maybe we need a "Glossary of Terms" section to translate what the dealers actually mean. Pug just pointed out some great terms. Some of the words I have learned from everyone here with respect to actually what one will really be buying:

Lemania, Swiss ETA, Asian ETA, Unitas, Swan Neck, Real Gold,Valjoux, Synthetic Saphire, AR Coating, Real Diamonds, and others are jut a few of the many terms one can query somewhere in this site and find out what you actually get. One term I know is really what you get -"Asian 21J" Dam 21J thing seems indestructable.
 

thehorse

Renowned Member
25/4/06
762
8
18
Asia
We might do some research and find that the truth is out there.

But people going straight to the dealers' websites might not know the difference... :twisted:
 

joeyz400

I saved a ton of $$$
DO NOT TRADE WITH ME
5/8/06
831
0
16
I hate when people mention this is illegal and we are dealing with a sort of character so except being mislead. What we are interested in may be illegal but that is no excuse for being misled. Say what have and sell what you say you have, simple. :wink:
 

Novesh

I'm Pretty Popular
5/5/06
2,291
0
0
its simple commerce.

you pay what you get for.

if you pay for one thing and get another, it is expected for the dealer to rectify the issue and get you what you payed for or refund.
 

magick1

Getting To Know The Place
23/11/06
63
0
0
I also agree with you Pugwash............

While I was for many years a sales/tranning mgr and used words like "perfect" to paint an idea of a product.

I do believe discriptions like 1:1 mean just that. I should be able to find no faults and beable to exchange parts with gens if elected to do so. I also agee a glossary would be nice for newbies as well as old hands.

My "perfect" sub I believed to me meant as close as a rep could get at that moment.....but I knew it wouldn't be PERFECT COPY.
But I could see where someone might believe it to be and thats not right.

By the way that TTK is to cool.......that gerbel movement is way out there!
 

cybee

Legendary Member
23/11/06
11,134
30
48
...well now that everyone is in blissful agreement. Does anyone have an answer how to actually stop "the little white lies" from propagating any further. I would really like to know. I have purchased 4 watches here and all but one needed repairs. I have no problem fixing a watch that is not right, I actually enjoy it, it gives me some degree of satisfaction in this unique hobby. :) And it is unique in many ways, some good and some not so good.

So either we as buyers lower our expectations of those we buy from, or we hold them accountable. But, the question still begs...How do we do that? :)
 

BurgerFlaggen

Renowned Member
1/1/07
588
3
18
United States
Only way I can think to reign in the BS and poor performance is to utilize the forum(s) to notify other potential customers. Give the dealer a chance to make things right. If you are subsequently led on or outright ignored, then post up your experience in the review forum. When new members show up and ask about a dealer, be sure to relate your experience, but only facts. No hyperbole on our side either. As was said, we vote with our dollars.

This whole "illegal trade" argument is fallacious; spending as much as a few hundred dollars for an item that turns out to be different than what you were told, is extremely wrong. Enabling that behavior by "letting it slide" is just as bad. It's hard to correct a bad habit later when you've passively approved it for a time.