That's too bad. They were tops in PAMs and Rolexes (and fair in other brands like APs). Maybe they think fighting against JF and BP in the Rolex arena is preferable to fighting against VSF/XF, HF, ZF and SF in the Panerai landscape. Oh well, cest la vie.
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Latest 176 Noob series question
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That's too bad. They were tops in PAMs and Rolexes (and fair in other brands like APs). Maybe they think fighting against JF and BP in the Rolex arena is preferable to fighting against VSF/XF, HF, ZF and SF in the Panerai landscape. Oh well, cest la vie.
Well only those who can appreciate the history will care. What people want is who's the most accurate and best quality in reps, period.
I want to follow your analysis, because it seems to me very rationale, especially on the supposted fear by the other factories to be compared with the Noob results of these years.
What is not understandable for me is the business behaviour of Noob, because:
- Many PAMs model from Noob are classified as "Super reps" in the rep-community. Also a newbie like me discovered this truth in very few weeks of analysis in RWI forum
- All investments, especially for the Luminor cases, has already been done.
- All reps sells "a lot", without specific marketing expenses (need for distribute prototypes to dealers or to key users like Ale or you)
- Basically, PAMs catalogue for Noob is a cash cow, with few problems from other factories like HF or VSF.
Thus, why to stop a cash cow which will go using their legs ?
But even if the decision to stop PAMs production may have a rationale due to other factors not known by us, why did Noob not sold all the PAMs production line to some other factory ? If I would another factory, I would invest for sure 2-3 mln USD in order to get all the designs for cases, movements exclusive (if I'm not wrong the A7753 movement was a Noob exclusive), dials like the PAM029 and many other and all the other stuff that permitted to classify the PAMs as super reps.
Just another little facts. I already bought a PAM356, due to the final sales and I'm very satisfied with it. I was also in the evaluation of a GMT model from Noob or HF.
Last 9th April I discovered on another Dealer, not TD here, that the Noob PAM088 was on sale for 248 USD. I asked for availability but did not received an answer
(it was my fault, because the answer was sent after few hours, but went in my SPAM folder)
On 11th April I checked with a TD (Puretime) if they can source the same watch at the same price. The day after Puretime said that Noob PAM088 was sold out.
I don't know when the sale at this price lasted. But when I asked again to the non-TD its availability, he said that overal stock was sold in 3 days.
(this time I checked the SPAM folder and I found both email replies)
It seems to me that there still is a huge market opportunity on these models.
Sorry for the long post, but I'm just trying to understand also how this business works
First let me correct one of your statements right there. As much as I would like that to be true, :lmao: I have not received any prototypes from Noob (nor any other factory for that matter). @ALE7575 recieved a prototype of the Bronze case for the PAM382 because KW factory wanted independent analysis of the alloy composition of the bronze case. Other than that, I know of no other instance.
As for the rationale behind Noob's new owner's decisions regarding their PAM production line, we can only speculate. It could be that Noob did not want other factories to "steal" their previously vaunted supremacy in PAM reps or it may be because the new owner might have some plans down the line to resurrect the PAM super rep production. Who knows? I guess, we as the consumer, will just have to make do with what's available now while dreaming of when Noob PAMs will make a comeback, if ever.
I didn't want to state that you or Ale or anyone else had received some prototypes or other sample in order to review them. And, most of all, I did'n't want to offend you or anyone else
My intention was to state that if I was Noob, I would act to do so. And I tried to involve some key users also in the development process.
I'm observing such behaviour in the Rolex SubC from JF 3ad from Angus, which asked for some key users which are owner of a gen and a TC version in order to send them a JF version for the production of a detailed review. This is the approach that I would follow. As also suggested in many business management articles and books.
But I deem that I went a bit OT over the nature of this 3ad
Many thanks for your attention
ceesq
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i dont really think that the Noob base pams are doing that great in the last years to call it a cash cow, the true collectors and pam freaks have almost all base pams already collected over time so market is a bit saturated, and most of the starters just go for 111 so i suppose that thats the reason why its the only pam they still produce...
to get the true pam freaks buying more base pams they need the newer models, but the newer models have more diffucult movements to get 1:1 super rep status
lets hope they go back and get super reps of the prevendome area as there are no out of the box super reps of these, so we collectors can go overboard again on these
i dont really think that the Noob base pams are doing that great in the last years to call it a cash cow, the true collectors and pam freaks have almost all base pams already collected over time so market is a bit saturated, and most of the starters just go for 111 so i suppose that thats the reason why its the only pam they still produce...
to get the true pam freaks buying more base pams they need the newer models, but the newer models have more diffucult movements to get 1:1 super rep status
lets hope they go back and get super reps of the prevendome area as there are no out of the box super reps of these, so we collectors can go overboard again on these
Well if the PAM freaks are after the new models, why would Noob think of producing Pre-V models? If there was such a demand, Davidsen would be swimming in cash right now.
ceesq
Renowned Member
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Well if the PAM freaks are after the new models, why would Noob think of producing Pre-V models? If there was such a demand, Davidsen would be swimming in cash right now.
its from a collectors view, collecting the Noob "super rep" base models, so when there are no more models no new buys to welcome the collection the newer models are not possible to make yet because of the movement dont think they will go 1:1 on P5000 like A6497-2 ? ,ZF have the P5000 "clone" but still doesnt look the buisiness like Noobs base pams, the davidsen versions are not superreps imho and need lots of modding but when noob will produce the pre-V models in super rep condition wich im sure they are cabaple to make, its a no brainer for me.
From a business point of view, it's all about making profit. If the market isn't there (which I'm almost sure that is the current situation), there's no incentive for Noob or H-fac or VSF or any other factory to invest resources into it. Davidsen can't make super rep level cases, because he doesn't have the resources that Noob does. But he doesn't need to, because the volume he's making is enough for the market he's supplying, and his customers aren't asking for better Pre-V reps. So for both small and large-scale rep enterprise, it's all about the bottom line.
If you can get enough members interested to put up $50K in investment, maybe Angus can talk with any of the factories to attempt to rep a Pre-V PAM. But you would have to have all of them agree on one model. That would be some challenge.