Klink - A Final Decision

[guanaco]

I just realized that, my bad! [Actually it makes my heart fuzzy to know Dave's banned ]

 

[R2D4]

Someone has to say it. Let it be me.

Life is good.

Yeah, I am not going to fawn feigned praise. He was a viper in the nest and single-handedly drove the community to other forums. When in power, he abused privileges repeatedly and betrayed those who trusted him. This move is positive for RWI: the leash is broken.

Oh yeah, and he banned me five times. Several of those times, he lied and broke the site db trying to cover his tracks. This is not a man for whom the word community should be used.

Lest we forget, and all that.

You may now return to pretending he was deep down a decent chap who will be missed.

Puggs I am glad your back here. You are coming back now right? I consider Klink a friend and was not around for all these bannings you had to endure so my experience with him as the Klink was/is positive.

Anyway, I am sure we will see him somewhere and I do appreciate our mod squad too.

 

[konigwolf]

I dont want this to sound be bitchy but,
Do you think the 10,000 posts went to his head maybe he thought he was RWI, but nobody is untouchable.
and as I was taught as an apprentice "your only as good as your last fuckup"

 

[R2D4]

I dont want this to sound be bitchy but,

 

[seanf]

As Hooligan and LoS said, this was not an easy decision, and it's not one we took lightly. Klink has been a fixture since RWI's inception. But we actually went through every single one of his posts for the last two months (yes, it took a looooong time). Of those hundreds of posts, I would say only about 10 to 20 were anything even bordering on coherence. When Phil was lucid, there was no one who knew more about the rep biz this side of the fence. But, for whatever reason, Klink decided recently that, despite the fact that he had a great deal of knowledge about the inner workings of the biz, he wasn't going to share any of those insights. Rather, he was going to spout gibberish.

Now, as somone who has been known to derail a thread or two in my time, there's nothing wrong with a little well-meaning gibberish once in a while. But over the last two months, I think something snapped in Klink, and he began posting nonsense in--quite literally--every single topic on the board. He wasn't adding anything of value, despite the fact that he could. And then he started pushing China Mike--against Mike's wishes, by the way--and accusing the Mod Squad of having some ulterior purpose in refusing to make him a dealer (over Mike's objections, I guess). And then he flat out lied to a couple of members of staff and tried to get another member in trouble for something that he, himself, was doing.

Klink is the reason that I'm a moderator, and I'll always be grateful for that. But Klink crossed a whole lot of lines in the last couple of months, and, given his past history (which is pretty well documented), we felt that we really didn't have any other alternatives. I wish it could have had a different outcome.

 

[coop]

I to am a mod because of Klink, but lately he was getting a bit crazy. And I have to say, I consider Pugwash a friend and I know how Klink treated him in the past. So......Maybe this is a good thing, time will tell.

In the mean time, lets talk about watches!

 

[seventhexile]

I trust in LOS wisdom..

as for Seanf..
eh....
actions are stronger then words..

...
wait.. is it to early to start the derailing?

- Ex

 

[onzenuub]

Please, would you all be quiet!

for I am busy

enjoying the bread and the circus!

Life is Good!

Klink

 

[cybee]

as one poster has stated..."You may now return to pretending he was deep down a decent chap who will be missed."

Klink was usually friendly and welcoming to noobs... And as I recall the poster of the above quote brought along his own set of baggage to the forum and certainly was no blender.

life is always good.

 

[no_one]

becoming erratic

not so becoming

ban for good..

good for RWI

time will tell.. like

watchie tell time

Life is good!



Guess I should have added something about livestock and a clown. Either way I think we'll miss _some_ of his posts.

 

[lovereps]

This is not unique! This have happened in RWG, too! I don't mean Klink! I could remember TTK when he was banned and booted out of RWG! What I don't get is why long and good standing members turn to complete lunatics with no apparent reason! They don't heed what the rules are.......it seems like the part of their brain that's suppose to be human turns to mush! I don't know..........things change and people do, too! Too bad.......o well, life goes on!

Via con Dios, Klink! I'm new here, but I got a taste of your last days.....and it wasn't pretty!

Agreed, we were all disappointed that this step became necessary.

I'd like everyone to know that this was not an easy decision, and certainly not one made lightly. However, in the end, after all the arguments were presented and all of the deliberation, the staff decided that it was better for the forum as a whole (i.e., YOU the membership) to separate Klink from RWI.

I was sad to see the apparent disdain that Klink had come to view the forum and staff (though not the membership, I don't think) with and it forced us to a difficult decision.

The staff will try to fill the void left as best we can. I personally welcome ANY member, new or old, to PM me with any questions/concerns/ideas/etc. that you may have.

Hopefully we can all move forward from here and put all the drama of the last couple of months behind us.

Thanks.

 

[njcurrie]

it seems like the part of their brain that's suppose to be human turns to mush! I don't know ...

[/quote]

Advanced Syphillis ?? Bad joke, maybe??

 

[Spirit]

Not to moan or anything, but I think this thread is getting too much sentimental already.

...I´m pretty sure that ALL of you are members not only from RWI, but from other forums too, not only about watches, but whatever your likes feel like getting yourselves in.
And ditto that, we know that a staff of a forum takes decisions not solely based on what´s seen, but on everything that happens on a forum in between the stages and the forums itself. I was a mod on one site already, and - as many of you might too - have many real friends as moderators/admins on other forums... and you must know that "10.000 posts" mean nothing if the posts aren´t 'quality posts'

I´m not pointing out this and not I have anything against Klink - as I have nothing against anybody here on this forum. but...having dealt with alot of ppl on forums, I know that some comments are posted just to raise up postcount, and I have seen this around here too (and by Klink also)
So, if the subject is done with a final decision, I think it should be left as it is and carry on with it.

Being missed or not, this is not the point anymore.
These are just my 2 cents

Good Luck,
Spirit.

 

[OiRogers]

Someone has to say it. Let it be me.

Life is good.

Yeah, I am not going to fawn feigned praise. He was a viper in the nest and single-handedly drove the community to other forums. When in power, he abused privileges repeatedly and betrayed those who trusted him. This move is positive for RWI: the leash is broken.

Oh yeah, and he banned me five times. Several of those times, he lied and broke the site db trying to cover his tracks. This is not a man for whom the word community should be used.

Lest we forget, and all that.

You may now return to pretending he was deep down a decent chap who will be missed.

I must say Pugs it is very nice to see your moniker on this forum again, everytime I close the clasp on my IWC GST Ti, I silently thank you for introducing me to such a fine watch through your wonderful photos. I watched with great dismay the go-round you and Klink had a while back... it really put a damper on my enthusiasm for the entire rep game for several monthes. I had to step away from all the forums for several monthes to recover... (I came back and promptly got burned by TWP... another story, another time period away from the forums) It appalled me to see someone entrusted with the powers of a "Mod" to be so abusive of the trust placed in them. I, as a direct result, always consumed Klinks posts with a sizable grain of salt... such abuse of trust isn't easily forgotten by me.... I was thrilled when I no longer saw "Mod" under his moniker.

That being said, don't take my post as Klink bashing... I'm pretty certain he has forgotten more about reps than I will ever know. When I first joined here (think my progression was TRC, RWG1, RWG2, RWI, RG, banned by RG for no reason, Today), upon logging in I found a PM from Klink laying out a large amount of information that has proven to be worth reading more than once... I still refer to it occasionally even though the data is almost 2 years old. I for one will miss Klinks useful posts, his recent jibberish I can do without... Much in same way that I have missed Pugwash's input here in the past many many monthes.

I sincerely hope the entire community can move forward in the correct direction... demanding finer and finer reps with good QC for reasonable prices.

 

[seanf]

That being said, don't take my post as Klink bashing... I'm pretty certain he has forgotten more about reps than I will ever know. When I first joined here (think my progression was TRC, RWG1, RWG2, RWI, RG, banned by RG for no reason, Today), upon logging in I found a PM from Klink laying out a large amount of information that has proven to be worth reading more than once... I still refer to it occasionally even though the data is almost 2 years old. I for one will miss Klinks useful posts, his recent jibberish I can do without... Much in same way that I have missed Pugwash's input here in the past many many monthes.

I sincerely hope the entire community can move forward in the correct direction... demanding finer and finer reps with good QC for reasonable prices.

You know, that's kind of what's so frustrating about this whole thing with Klink. It'd be one thing if he was just a moron who just spouted gibberish because he didn't know anything about watches. But that absolutely wasn't the case with Klink. Since he was a former dealer himself, he knew a huge amount about the inner workings of the GZ rep business. He knew how the watches were commissioned, how they were made, the factory conditions, the main players, etc. But, for reasons that I can't comprehend, Klink didn't want to talk about that stuff. Instead, we get pieces of "wit and wisdom" like this:

abuse

is only abuse,

unless it is praise, and bragging rights..

LOL

9 moths was twice already (two guys) the record..

we ask for proof, only because of Olympics and 8 08 08



(drug testing too, of course..)

-------

seanf wears around neck

this has been cleared by me!


-------



Yes, Stefan!

Can put diamonds on fingernails when visit Olympics!

(and in teeth too!)

------


dun worry

just post

poor DSN.. he is busy with

some thing of

dunno

and works to make

money

(do know)

-------

We need now a "Cheesy Gen"

Toot torial!

with pictures.. ones that are right, ones that are not blamed for magificaiton

or for being of a 'black' watch that is impossible to photograph!

Is good clean fun, and remember

is 'Mandatory Reading"

lol
-------
And before you ask, no, it wouldn't help putting these in context.

These were all posted within about a single 30 minute timeframe. Now multiply that by hundreds of posts and countless hours, and you can start to see our frustration. Klink had the ability and the knowledge to be a fountain of information and a real boon to every member here. But I guess that wasn't enough for him. Instead, he wanted to just be "Klink" and play the fool. And even that wasn't enough. He directly lied to Admin and then publicly tried to rake us over the coals for something so ridiculous that it's not even worth repeating.

It's time for RWI move on past Klink. He's gone and he won't be coming back. I'm sorry it ended this way, but the bottom line is that we, as Admin and the Mod Squad, have a duty and responsibilty to the forum membership. And allowing Klink to stay on the boards given his behavior over the last two months was directly harming the forum.

 

[fakemaster]

Its kinda sad its come to this,
but even if you have 10,000 posts it doesnt meen your above the rules
be it a noob like me or klink.

konig, you are wise beyond your post count, sir.

Klink has done a lot of good things for the forum, but he had done a lot of damage in the past, too. This decision took Klink's entire history into account, not just the last month or two, trust me on that.

Frankly, I'm offended at the suggestion that this might have been motivated by who is/is not/might become a dealer here. China Mike's information is available to any who are brave enough to use it. He doesn't WANT to be a dealer here. SEVERAL of our dealers use him as a source for reps to be resold here, I believe.

Take off the tin-foil hats and give the conspiracy theories a rest, please.

If removing Josh and Andrew, and risking the scorn/backlash/fallout from that decision doesn't convince you that the staff is actually making decisions based on what we collectively feel is best for the membership, I don't know what will.

That's what this came down to, a decision about what we felt was for the good of the general populus here. Period. No ulterior motives, no back-door deals/schemes, nothing.

If you don't believe that (which is your right), I'm not sure what I can do to convince you otherwise.

The admin have gotten a couple of knocks in this thread. So I want to come to their defense.

Sadly we live in an environment where if you say something over and over people will believe it's true. We know Dave subscribes to that philosiphy. That's because most are lazy and don't want to take the time to use the search button. And when they don't know something for sure they LOVVEEEE to speculate. Well I don't speculate. And I don't believe everything I'm told. I do research. I spoke directly with China Mike so everything I am about to say came DIRECTLY from him. He's a wholesaler who sells in bulk which is what you have to buy in order to get any kind of deal from him. He was asked by RWI about being a dealer. His wife wanted to do it. He did not. Cold hard truth here. Most buyers are impatient asses to deal with.

Is your Sub the same one that Puretime sells?
It's been two days, why isn't my watch here yet?
Do you have a super special factory that makes reps just for you like Josh? (I love that one)

These questions get old real fast and he doesn't want to deal with it. And he doesn't want to take Paypal because these same people are quick to use it as a weapon which brings heat down on him, the industry and the forums. So he declined the offer. Who can blame him?

So the admin knew Phil was lying. And they DID give him multiple chances to respond by repeatedly asking him on the open forum to explain himself. He just kept repeating the same thing over and over ad hominem. As far as the rest of it goes, some of it came out on the open forum. But some of it took place behind the scenes. So to comment on that aspect of it falls back under speculation and serves no useful purpose.

As I said in the other thread the admin took the steps that others were not be willing to. They actually went through posts and investigated things. And they did an admirable job. Trust me when I tell you research takes time. And diseminating that research in an explanation takes longer. There's more to this than I have stated here and look at how long this post is.

The point is that I have seen nothing that indicates the Admin acted improperly here. They did what they felt was best for the forum and they had good reasons. If they choose not to share ALL of those reasons then that is their perrogative. I know I'm not going into it any further. You have to trust that they are looking out for you. If you don't then I would have to ask...Why would you want to spend time on a forum run by people you think are liars?

Well that's the facts fellas.

 

[cdzsmith]

Klinkie gone

sum says good riddance

sum says boo hoo

whos rite?

time will tell


Yeah, I know, not real helpful, but it somehow seems appropriate.

 

[horologie_unitas]

i simply say it as it is: ( IMO )

i am not happy with this decision.

i understand the Admins site - as well at the same time Klinks point. not his offensive words though.

but I hoped things would chill out.

again, and Greg and LoS know that, i have no problem with D4M CONSULTING....and bought through him, which was a good experience.

on the other side, i dont like to see Klink being banned. ok, this forum belongs to somebody, and its their decision.

i would just like to know if any other diplomatic efforts have failed to come to this decision.

Klinks posts, quality or not, i enjoyed them on this forum.

when i started reading and posting on RWI, and didnt know the ropes, Klink was always very friendly and helpful, and prevented me from getting

scamed - he never saw 1 dime from me, but always was a honest and friendly guy to me.

well, things are the way they are, and decisions are made.

NEVERTHELESS, i would appreciate the Admins to have a private conversation with Klink to see if that problem can be overcome.

 

[LegendofSpeed]

NEVERTHELESS, i would appreciate the Admins to have a private conversation with Klink to see if that problem can be overcome.

Been there, done that... I am a very reasonable guy but there is no reasoning with him...

And the dealer issue is like 5% of this... you guys focus on that and it isn't even the big thing.. it was the proverbial straw though...

The biggest issue was his lack of respect for the staff... and the deceitful way he told the staff to incriminate another member (fakemaster) in something that, in fact, Klink was doing himself...

When someone has striven to disrespect you and deceive you, what is there left to do? This has been going on for at least 4 or 5 months... diplomacy was exhausted... it was time to make a decision and move on....

 

[Maxlove]

Klink wa giri to ninjo ga atsui des.

Klink understands giri. (Giri is the Japanese word for special obligation)

The one thing I am curious about is that we all know that Klink was a very successful dealer in the past. Although he said many times that he does not wish to be a dealer now, living in China for 8 years in this business gives him some clout in the GZ, Because of Kinks efforts, we have Ruby...He put her in the watch business! How many more are in business because of Klink? Is he still in business and acting as a control? Ruby is able to get great pieces and not worry about the Cartel...She obviously has a Hall Pass from someone important. Maybe Klimk is a trusted dealer under another name?

I have known Klink for many many years and i would describe him just like The Lone Ranger or Sky King. He is pure in heart and fights injustice.

This board could be shut down with a few phone calls but I know he won't because he actually does love this place. Sometimes being cryptic is not wanting to hurt anyone but let them know that there is something they are doing that is not for the good of everyone.

I hope in time he will be allowed to return. Sometimes misguided good people see the light and I hope that would be the case for him.


Bottom line, this is an amazing forum with access to the best of dealers and modders and we are global in scope. We have great people that care for the forum and because a long term poster goes wacky for a few months, we should help him and not hurt him.

We have fabulous admin and mods and they make the decisions. I will honor those but it's OK for me to wish that there were other options. Someone said that Klink has forgotten more about the rep business and how it actually workd that he will even know....How true that statement is depends on your knowledge of Klink and how doing the particular job that he did in China for over 8 years gave him access to the upper level manufacturers. He may have made some goofy statements but he was always watching and keeping us out of trouble.Helping us in ways you will never fathom.

Do you think he will come to the GTG?

That would be interesting n'cest pas?

I want to be clear that I am not picking sides. I know how much he respected LOS and others and all of those members know how much he dearly loved this wonderful board.


He will be missed. especially when there are small annoying problems.

Thanks to all the mods and admin involved with this..it could not have been an easy decision.