JLC MUT Moon 925 Movement Clone

[Mitzyy]

I've been thinking about picking up an APSF (or ZF if they fix the moon disc) Master Ultra Thin Moon, but I have some questions/concerns with the clone 925 movement found in those models.

I've heard that the reliability of the movement is pretty poor, which is worrying. Have any watchmakers or buyers here had any experience with it? Would a full service do anything to improve it's reliability, or is it just a flawed movement design? I'm also not 100% sure about whether it's a true clone movement or not - am I correct that it's basically a custom movement built off of a Miyota base, rather than a true clone like the VS3235?

 

[JonathanLing91]

Bump. I was wondering the same

 

[chemint]

I've had a ZF V2 with a clone 925 since July, so I can't comment on the longevity. It arrived with a stuttering seconds hand which I managed to fix myself, since I didn't want to take it to a watchmaker (the seconds hand is indirectly driven and the friction spring was a bit too loose). I'm not a watchmaker, but I used videos of gen repairs as references for fixing mine, as far as I can tell, it's an exact clone in terms of parts. There are, however, decorated miyotas, too. If you have a look at the back, you can tell them apart.

For now, mine is running pretty nicely. The only negative thing I've noticed is that when setting the time, the stem feels a bit fiddly, like the minute hand will move with the slightest touch. It's a bit annoying when pushing down the crown and the minute hand isn't perfectly aligned with the marker. I don't have that issue with other watches, not sure if it's due to the movement or the case design, though.

 

[TomMöller]

I got my JLC MUT Moon since November and it works okay. It isn't 100% accurate, after a few days the time is 1min off... but that should be an easy fix by a watchmaker. Another problem i had yesterday is that the quicksetting of the date doesnt work always. I had to push quiet often sometimes before the date changed.

From what i read it's a more or less accurate clone movement of the 925.

 

[Canales16]

How are your watches with 925 movement doing after a reasonable amount of time has passed?

 

[dogwood]

I know @majwilliams0308 has worked on this movement so perhaps he can comment on its quality. I have my eye on picking up either a MUT or the new APSF version without the moonphase which has the A896 movement -- which appears to be the same A925 movement with a simplified dial side motion works.

 

[carlmazov]

I read that the 925 clone movement has recently been upgraded because so many of the earlier ones failed. I just ordered the APSF JLC ultrathin moon phase from Trusty Time a few weeks ago with the improvement movement. One of the reasons I ordered there is they have a $120 service that will purportedly disassemble the watch, oil things properly, reassemble the movement, regulate to -5/+5 spd, and then pressure test the seals. This is a lot cheaper than what the same service would cost in the US, so I'm hoping they will do it correctly. I will let you know when I receive the watch. It's my first rep purchase, and so far everything has gone well.

 

[ihavedrainbamage]

I read that the 925 clone movement has recently been upgraded because so many of the earlier ones failed. I just ordered the APSF JLC ultrathin moon phase from Trusty Time a few weeks ago with the improvement movement. One of the reasons I ordered there is they have a $120 service that will purportedly disassemble the watch, oil things properly, reassemble the movement, regulate to -5/+5 spd, and then pressure test the seals. This is a lot cheaper than what the same service would cost in the US, so I'm hoping they will do it correctly. I will let you know when I receive the watch. It's my first rep purchase, and so far everything has gone well.

When/where did you read that the movement had been improved? I've seen rumors about that for a while now but there is never any supporting evidence. My experience with the 925 MUT I bought in March ended when it took a dump roughly a month after I received it. When I reached out to my TD they said that they stopped selling that model because of the reliability issues.

That being said, the MUT line has me in a chokehold so I have an 896 on order as a replacement. Fingers cross that movement is more reliable due to being slightly simpler as well as any upgrades that DD has made (if applicable).

Curious how the service goes as $120 seems a bit too good to be true. I'm hesitant to have any work done on a watch in China as shady business is very much the norm over there. Generally speaking, I wouldn't put it past some sellers to pull a fast one on westerners with something like a service that'd cost 2-3x stateside. Don't want to sound too cynical, but it might be worth asking your TD for pics of the disassembled movement during service and/or having a watchmaker in the states give it a look over to verify that the work was actually done and done properly. Just because we have the comfort and safety of TDs doesn't change the fact that were talking about a business that operate in grey if not fully illegal areas of the law and for the sole purpose of making money. Trust but verify is always the best approach with reps IMO.

 

[MrWhite]

I read that the 925 clone movement has recently been upgraded because so many of the earlier ones failed. I just ordered the APSF JLC ultrathin moon phase from Trusty Time a few weeks ago with the improvement movement. One of the reasons I ordered there is they have a $120 service that will purportedly disassemble the watch, oil things properly, reassemble the movement, regulate to -5/+5 spd, and then pressure test the seals. This is a lot cheaper than what the same service would cost in the US, so I'm hoping they will do it correctly. I will let you know when I receive the watch. It's my first rep purchase, and so far everything has gone well.

Any update for us on how this all went for you?

 

[bakerjin]

I received an APSF 925 clone from Steve, but it just doesn't run at all. Am I doing something wrong? I wound the crown several dozen times and wore it on wrist but the seconds hand won't move. I've never had this issue with any other reps.

 

[Reaps]

I received an APSF 925 clone from Steve, but it just doesn't run at all. Am I doing something wrong? I wound the crown several dozen times and wore it on wrist but the seconds hand won't move. I've never had this issue with any other reps.

Unfortunately you know the 925 clone is infamously unreliable. It is one of the few movements I would never purchase.

You need it serviced or if you are feeling risky, willing to wait and haven't peeled the stickers, return for a refund.

 

[JoEz]

Does anybody know, if there are replacement movements available?

 

[Horace_Derwent]

Unfortunately you know the 925 clone is infamously unreliable. It is one of the few movements I would never purchase.

You need it serviced or if you are feeling risky, willing to wait and haven't peeled the stickers, return for a refund.

Reading also on Reddit, seems that the 925 clone is trhe worst clone out there...i'm wondering why...

I mean, Rolex Clone movements are great , Patek 330 Clone and also AP Clone movements seems to be fine too, why only the JLC MUT 925 movement is so unreliable ?

If we see the back of a Clone A925 and a decorated Myiota 9015 the difference is ...minimal...i mean, better to stick to a decorated Myiota 9015 if the A925 clone is SO comically unreliable !

 

[ihavedrainbamage]

Reading also on Reddit, seems that the 925 clone is trhe worst clone out there...i'm wondering why...

I mean, Rolex Clone movements are great , Patek 330 Clone and also AP Clone movements seems to be fine too, why only the JLC MUT 925 movement is so unreliable ?

If we see the back of a Clone A925 and a decorated Myiota 9015 the difference is ...minimal...i mean, better to stick to a decorated Myiota 9015 if the A925 clone is SO comically unreliable !

My guess would be that there is just enough demand for JLC reps w/ clone movements to justify making a clone movement but not enough to justify making a good clone movement.

Movement factories don't have to do all of the R&D legwork of developing movements from the ground up when making clones, but they do still have to do the legwork of reverse engineering them. Corner cutting during the development phase could lead to things like improper tolerances on parts that cause issues when stacked up in the full movement. And depending on how far out of whack you tolerances on parts are you could see some parts that are "close enough" to produce a reliable movement while others are too far off yielding you a movement that will inevitably shit itself. It's all dependent on the quality of the (copied) design, variability in the manufacturing processes, and quality of the (presumably non-existent) QC checks that movement factories have in place. Chinese manufacturing isn't exactly known for any of those.

To sum it all up, the movement factories probably got lazy when copying JLC's work and lack the proper quality/manufacturing controls to prevent time bomb movements from leaving the factory. It's just a roll of the dice as to what you get.

 

[Horace_Derwent]

I find this sort of Ranking of the Rep Movements, no wonder the Dandong 938 is at the bottom of the barrel !



Avoid at all costs !

The funny part is, the Gen 938 Caliber is a 40 - 43 hrs power reserve movement, 41 jewels (!!!)...maybe it is th high number of jewels that makes it so difficult to properly clone it ?

Jaeger-LeCoultre caliber 938 » WatchBase

Full details and images of the Jaeger-LeCoultre caliber 938, including a list of all watches using this movement.

watchbase.com

 

[Horace_Derwent]

Edit : the Ranking Table i posted above is a 2022 releae, here it is a 2024 one, the Dandong 938 Clone is substituted by the newer Dandong 925 Clone , with slightly better results !

 

[JaceBeleren]

I have a 925 clone. Had issues with the keyless works having somehow fallen out when I received the watch but it was fixed by a watchmaker and since then there have been no issues with the movement (getting close to 6 months now).

 

[Horace_Derwent]

I have a 925 clone. Had issues with the keyless works having somehow fallen out when I received the watch but it was fixed by a watchmaker and since then there have been no issues with the movement (getting close to 6 months now).

APSF ?
Reading around, it seems to be the best one , i mean, APSF Factory one with Clone Cal 925 !

 

[bakerjin]

Just as an update to this thread, my JLC MUT Moon was a APSF rep with the clone 925. I did take it to a local repair tech and he disassembled the back and the crown and then re-assembled everything. The crown no longer retracts in odd positions and the watch runs decently fine now, though it loses quite a bit of time (expected for this kind of rep). He could tell immediately it was a rep but didn't care, haha. He actually said JLC movements are a bitch to service so he's glad it's not the genuine one, gave me a good laugh.

The watch is kind of odd in that it doesn't keep time in my normal Rothwell watch winder, but it does in some cheap watch winder I bought years ago, possibly because of the angle the watch sits on its cushion. Not a problem when actually wearing the watch, but I found that interesting.

The ranking table is really intriguing; probably why this is my first issue with a rep movement, as I've only experienced very good clones such as the DD3285 in my Clean BLNR and DD8800/8900 in my VSF PO and AT. Though I don't wear any of my Omega reps anymore as the movement is very obviously a rep (whereas you can't tell with the closed caseback of the Rolex) and I absolutely hate the crown on the VSF Omegas. My PO crown is already unusable and I'm wondering if I should just toss the rep lol. I also have a V7F IWC Mark XX rep with the 2892 movement, and I can understand why it's in the "not bad" category instead of "just buy". The rotor is super loud and it seems to have very short power reserve... maybe around 24 hours or less? I loved the watch though so I eventually just bought a gen BP43 instead. I'd say upgrading the V7F Mark XX to a Selitta movement is the way to go.

 

[Horace_Derwent]

@bakerjin : what a detailed and helpful post !

I would like to link this Reddit /Reptime thread, usually Reddit is like the Far West, but this thread is very interesting...

It is a GEN vs APSF Factory (Cal 925 Clone ) comparison

https://www.reddit.com/r/RepTime/comments/1itophm