Is it just me? AKA Recent quality complaints

[Damagelimitation]

Or are the quality of the current batch of reps just not up to snuff?

Obviously, I don't have the history that so many of you have but the more I read it seems that the older reps (older being more than a year or so) seem to work great. However, I keep reading threads complaining about broken watches being shipped, movements that don't work, and then in the same thread "older" posters saying that theirs has wroked flawlessly for XX months/years.

I think we have established that the "trusted" dealers can be trusted to SUPPLY product and won't do a runner. But that seems to indicate that the QC side of things is entirely dependant upon the factory to turn out good product. Keep in mind I am not refering to Rep Vs Gen, I am just talking about a functioning watch with all of its pieces in tact!

What are the odds the watch we receive will work/function as we hope straight out of the packaging? Are all of our expectations just too high?

Standard Watch
50%? 80%?

Chrono
10% 20%?

This then begs the question....is our percentage of failures representative if the factory makes millions every year?

Lastly, if I am being too critical please say so. It just strikes me as odd how my first few weeks here were spent reading new posts on Rep vs Gen comparisons and over the last 2-3 weeks they seem to be primarily about Dealers whom we expect to QC product or watches that just aren't working as expected.

Cheers

 

[d4m.test]

Here is my observation, and please do not take offense to it.

Members with less than 50 posts ( I personally think the number should be closer to 500) should not be allowed to make such posts. The simple fact is that the quality of these watches has improved. The quality control and pre-shipment inspection process has ALWAYS been poor. Its difficult to inspect a watch that you never see.

If new members and people who are brand new to the replica collecting hobby would realize this ahead of time, these posts would not exist.
I made a post in the admin section the other day about this. It is obvious to me that these threads are doing nothing more than stirring up the idea that the trusted dealers cannot be trusted and that we are not doing anything about. Your thread today is proof of that theory.

When a new member with only 7 posts thinks that the failure rate of shipped chronographs is 80-90% we have a real problem! And its not with our dealers!

 

[Fiddo]

@Damagelimitation
I doubt the work/function rate is that low. Keep in mind... we generally only see the posts from those that are unhappy with some aspect of their purchase. Most "happy" or content buyers don't even post anything at all.

@CBR
I'm not sure if I agree with the post count=competence conclusion. Now, quality posts= comeptence would probably be fairer conclusion.

 

[Damagelimitation]

@ CBR, no offense taken at all. I apologize if I made it sound like the dealers were to blame. It seemed to me that the posts had gone from what I perceived to be question re 1:1 comparisons to todays posts about quality. Those of you with a longer history would be better able to advise if this was "Just me" ')

@Fiddo, Fair enough. similar to the restaurant analogy. If you have 1 bad experience you will tell 10 people, but if you have a GOOD experience, you might only tell one other person.

@ CBR, I don't want tocause any problems, please delete this thread.

Cheers 8)

 

[fakemaster]

Obviously, I don't have the history that so many of you have but the more I read it seems that the older reps (older being more than a year or so) seem to work great. However, I keep reading threads complaining about broken watches being shipped, movements that don't work, and then in the same thread "older" posters saying that theirs has wroked flawlessly for XX months/years.

You've got it confused. It's not the older watches that are performing better. It's the new members looking for gens out of a sweatshop that are constantly bitching.

The complaint posts are suspect to begin with. They're always from some guy named 'Enuffizenuff' who although just bought his first watch and made no posts had enough forethought to anticipate the need for his user name.

 

[Time4Direct]

The quality of the mainstream reps has become better and better over the last 2 years.
What the problem is are peoples expectations are sometimes too high .
I get emails from members who are complaining about a mark on a dial marker that is not visable under a 5x loupe but they manage to photograph it at about 1000x and it's obvious.
Now I really am at a loss as to what people expect as QC apart from running the watch for 12-24 hours and checking time keeping and the functiond.
Not much more a dealer can do obviously look at the case etc for obvious flaws but thats about it.
I think people need to remember that dealers are like anyother buisness and there is only so much time you can spend checking a $99 watch before it is no longer viable to sell it at the price
They also need to remember that the dealer is not going to spend hours and hours looking lovingly with a loupe to their eye at the fake watch you have just bought just not going to happen not enough hours in the day

Considering the nature of the hobby the return rate for watches is very low. You have to remember that QC is not an exact science and humans can sometimes miss something .
Goodness it happens with companies like GM/Ford who spend $100's of millions a year on QC and still don't always get it right,so how are people expecting a dealer or factory in illigal goods to get it right all the time

 

[CaptainJack]

What are the odds the watch we receive will work/function as we hope straight out of the packaging?

Standard Watch
50%? 80%?

Chrono
10% 20%?

I'm exactly 13-for-13 on perfect watches (that includes 4 chronos). Every single one of them has functioned exactly as it should, straight out of the box. As far as looks and rep accuracy, I'm no pushover on quality, I wouldn't accept something that was not as advertised or obviously flawed or broken... but I'm also realistic that I'm paying in the $100 - $400 range for a $8,000 - $20,000 genuine piece. I have no room for complaint.

I think one thing that gets overlooked is that watches, reps, gens, whatever, are ungodly intricate and delicate pieces of machinery... I don't have hard data to back it up, but my own anecdotal evidence and that of the gen owners I know well, tells me that the failure rate on genuine watches in the four-or-five figure price range is not significantly lower than that of a quality rep.

Last point is... keep in mind that you're collecting your data from a place where a large percentage of people are transient posters who come to complain about or search for answers to problems. (Many of which are common problems that have been well documented.)

My two cents... (Just another 469 posts away from credibility.)

 

[phillycheez]

What the problem is are peoples expectations are sometimes too high .

Now I really am at a loss as to what people expect as QC apart from running the watch for 12-24 hours and checking time keeping and the functiond.

YES! people's expectations for a FAKE watch are too high! peoples expectations for Quality Control is also way too high!

I am personally amazed by the quality of craftsmanship these factories are coming out with. the fact that they are cranking out reps that can fool AD's and watchmakers right down to the movement is quiet the task. especially the fact that they are copying from pictures and sometimes the actual watch. from a business standpoint is phenomenal that a gen watch can come out and a fake is already made within a week!

 

[sconehead]

Robert, T4D, has hit the nail on the head yet again, sensible and straight talking... :wink:

 

[jmgentry]

I agree. Many of the people that have written negative post never seem to respond to questions and become irritated over the smallest thing.

This isn't rocket science and the individuals that purchase a $350.00 DSSD rep and complain because it leaked in 12 feet of water or the ceramic bezel cracked because they dropped it should buy gen and not rep.

I actually read on the forum where someone compared a rep ceramic to a gen Rolex ceramic construction and could not fathom how the bezel cracked when the gen Rolex was almost indestructable. Come on it's a $300 - $400 watch not a 10,000.00 watch.

Simple is better. When you start getting into complicated watches with working chrono's and multi dials there is always room for something to break. The watch is not assembled in a clean room by trained personal who must sign off on QC.

The expectations of some people are just way to high and you get what you pay for. You cannot expect a $400.00 complicated rep to survive after you drop, abuse or other wise neglect it.

Likewise a $300 rep is exactly what it is a cosmetic reproduction of a high end watch at a fraction of the cost; thats all it can ever be.

 

[fakemaster]

Actually you cannot expect a gen to survive either. But when you charge 7k for something that cost $400 to build it's easy to warranty it.

 

[Neuuubeh]

Actually you cannot expect a gen to survive either. But when you charge 7k for something that cost $400 to build it's easy to warranty it.

Meh, you can still charge several hundred for servicing, might as well swap the entire movement out for that amount . And then charge some more

 

[tommy_boy]

Robert, T4D, has hit the nail on the head yet again, sensible and straight talking... :wink:

+1 Well said, Robert.

 

[levelmanroger]

Plus, remember this:

When someone posts a complimentary thread about a watch and/or the dealer they bought it from, you might have 3 or 4 people comment on that thread. It goes away very quickly.

However, when someone complains about a watch or a dealer or a movement, it will go 3-6 pages of people chiming in with similar experiences, opposite experiences, defending the dealer, wanting pics of the problem, sharing pics of what it should look like, giving advice on how to diagnose or fix the problem, giving advice on how to deal with the dealer, etc. That thread will live for days if not weeks. So those threads will always dominate the new posts section and be the most readily visible.

I now have 14 reps and have: 1 that my winder can't keep running (but runs fine on my wrist), and 1 that arrived with bad face and bezel insert alignment issues. So really on 1 actual problem in 14. That's probably not far off what you would see in the gen world - especially if you carry a loup in your pocket!!

 

[Positive]

I agree. Part of the problem is that relative newcomers like me post about how we're happy about watches received from people like Precious Time and Fakemaster and one or two people agree. Then other newcomers post in the general discussion forum about a problem they have with a dealer often before contacting the dealer first to rectify the problem. There is just no pleasing some people. The people who are pleased, such as myself, are maybe less vocal than we need to be.

 

[Benben]

Heh to me its all luck.
When you are 1 in the 100 that get the lemon, it ain't bad statistically but no doubt you'll feel pretty lousy if the expectation is not set properly.
I got a lemon recently and I think if the dealer doesn't fix it, I'd consider a write off or use it as parts. It costs 10% of gen so I can buy another 9 for the same budget and I'm sure I'll get a couple of good ones. The cup is half full.

 

[hk45ca]

The quality of the mainstream reps has become better and better over the last 2 years.
What the problem is are peoples expectations are sometimes too high .
I get emails from members who are complaining about a mark on a dial marker that is not visable under a 5x loupe but they manage to photograph it at about 1000x and it's obvious.
Now I really am at a loss as to what people expect as QC apart from running the watch for 12-24 hours and checking time keeping and the functiond.
Not much more a dealer can do obviously look at the case etc for obvious flaws but thats about it.
I think people need to remember that dealers are like anyother buisness and there is only so much time you can spend checking a $99 watch before it is no longer viable to sell it at the price
They also need to remember that the dealer is not going to spend hours and hours looking lovingly with a loupe to their eye at the fake watch you have just bought just not going to happen not enough hours in the day

Considering the nature of the hobby the return rate for watches is very low. You have to remember that QC is not an exact science and humans can sometimes miss something .
Goodness it happens with companies like GM/Ford who spend $100's of millions a year on QC and still don't always get it right,so how are people expecting a dealer or factory in illigal goods to get it right all the time

a couple of years ago when the prices started going up i said right then when the prices go up people's expectations would go up also and there would be big problems.

nobody wanted to hear it. now everybody is just acting like people expect too much. i disagree, i paid 102.00 for my seiko monster brand new and there isn't a rep in the world that can hold a candle to it's quality or craftsmanship.

who ever is driving the prices up will either have to step up the quality or lower the prices if they want this trend to stop and that is a fact.

 

[phillycheez]

a couple of years ago when the prices started going up i said right then when the prices go up people's expectations would go up also and there would be big problems.

nobody wanted to hear it. now everybody is just acting like people expect too much. i disagree, i paid 102.00 for my seiko monster brand new and there isn't a rep in the world that can hold a candle to it's quality or craftsmanship.

who ever is driving the prices up will either have to step up the quality or lower the prices if they want this trend to stop and that is a fact.

I came in late in the game.. i am just wondering but what were the prices like? i guess its kinda hard to explain without examples but maybe using a low end rep, to standard, to high end example prices. i guess nowadays low end = 108, standard = 200ish, high end = 300+

 

[hk45ca]

the high end stuff was no more than 300.00. this shit all started when jandrew inc formed a cartel with them, king and angus. every time a new good rep would be released they would control who got it and the price they sold it for. bottom line was if you undersold them you would be shut out from getting it directly from the factory. if you had to obtain it from a secondary source you would have to sell it for more than them to make a profit.

eta movements started drying up and clones were being sold as gen eta's, prices kept increasing until we saw 1,000.00 hbb's and stupid shit like that. that's when i stopped spending 1,000.00 per month buying reps and started buying gen rolex's.

i have bought 3 since then, a 6154 from davidsen that went back to him 2 times because of quality issues (it's fixed now), a breitling evo from ruby which was fine and a sea dweller coming from ruby right now. it should be here this week.

in the mean time i saved the money i was spending on reps and bought myself a new gen rolex gmt2c and my wife a new platinum yacht master.

that's kind of the readers digest version of it. obviously there is much more to the story but it is all here if you want to search for it.

 

[phillycheez]

is there more on it? i did read all the cartel threads here:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=42114

which by the way, makes the RWI team look like i can trust them with my pin number to my bank account. is there any more readings though? its nice to know what really goes on around here.