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Interesting Discussion!

ALE7575

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As always in these cases, it is a taste question.

Now I prefer the reps, but in the past I always bought gens.
I have a little gens collection and for many years ago, sincerely they have economical value, but to wear every day you get bored sometime.

From an economical point of view the answer is clear: buy gens. In the future thegens have vaskue but a rep in the future will be worth zero!!

From a wearing point of view the answer could be: buy many good reps.

Now I prefer to have a good reps collection (please note good reps). You don’t take care about, no problems about thefts, loss, damage…If you get bored no problem... If you don’t like no problem. If you like other new rep no problem…
It is very easy to be happy with reps. (if you are not very analytical)
Like a hobby it is more difficult to buy a rep than a gen. You have only a gen but you need to choose usually between several reps. (with a lot of misinformation).
For example: buying a Rolex DSSD or SUB, you have a gen for each model but try to choose a good rep…

I think this is the case for good forum members
If not what are you doing in this forum??
 

sempire

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18/8/11
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Spending a few grand on gen watches isn't bad, but it's the high end gens that people can't afford that make the reps worthwhile.

Having a gen tag or omega is one thing, but when you start talking about 10 and 20k watches..having 2 1k watches and a gshock isn't the same as having a patek, might as well have a bunch of reps.
 

sub4me

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It really depends on many factors, the most important being funds, so if you can afford every gen you want thens theres no issuse you buy them all. If you can afford a few gens buy those and perhaps a few reps that you would otherwise be unable to buy, if your on a Ramen noddle budget with champagne taste well I guess only buy reps or perhaps a cheap gen.

But lets answer your question. I think its better to have a handful of gens I really like then a drawer full of reps that are for all practical purposes worthless, can break at any moment, always have problems, are a pain in the ass to get fixed, and find parts for. People have been saying for years I ain't buying no gens cause the reps are now such high quality. That statement is BS, I have never seen a rep of any watch that can compare to the quality of a gen, its just not true. Reps are all made with the cheapest possible materials always and that won't change, the only things that really change is their appearance and thats becuase their reps they are made for looks only, not for quality and to last, every rep and I mean every one has defects, weak points in manufacturing, and are poorly made. Theres no such thing as a high quality rep it does not exist, it can't, the very essence of a rep is to look like a gen not function as one, remember its all about the look not the quality of materials.

Ok, so the best advice is buy the gens you really desire and like them, buy some reps and like them also but don't expect any rep to give you long lasting happiness, its like a alcoholic chasing happiness in the bottom of a bottle, its just not there. Same goes for watches you can have 500 reps and your still looking for that best sub and chasing something that doesn't exist or you spend that much have a 10 great quality gens and maybe a few reps and be much more content.
 

mydnytrydr

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25/9/09
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The reps that they are turning out now are so good (if you go high end rep), that it's hard for me to justify $5,000.00 for something I can pick up for around $300.00 .... and get just as much enjoyment from it !!
 

PecMan

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lets say i love the tag heuer grand carrera calibre 17
replica=bullshit
that means: im not buying the replica couse it suck! so, if i REALLY! LOVE THE WATCH and have the money , yes i would buy gen.
since i like many watches!!! and it is imposible for me to be in love with just 1 , i preffer to buy many replicas , and choose the ones that are closer to the gen. of course i have to like them , not just buy becouse they are gen like .
 

sub4me

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High end?? Theres no such thing, make no mistake just because that huge ass DSSD weighs 5 pound of SS doesn't make it quality, remember most of those high end watches have a clone movement, ala chaep ass junk movement. Thats not saying you may not get a decent one. But lets break it down and I'm not gonna use just my views I will use the views of others recent posts about the watches they've been getting, heres a short list of low quality.

Bezels inserts attached with double sided tape
Bezels inserts that have running painted on numbers
Bezels with way to much play or wont turn at all or just pop right off
Bezels that are cracked or broken

Crytals not seated properly
Crystals that some how just explode (although many times this is the users fault) crack and break.
Crystals with dirt, hair, and gook on the inside.
Crystals that are not sapphire but mineral and in some cases cheap glass (break one and see, I've done it many times on purpose)

Crowns that when unscrewed just fall out
Crowns that don't do shit (won't wind, set time, nothing)
Crowns that wind like sandpaper
Crowns that are shipped on a new watch (even though dealer claims quality inspection) that wont even unscrew

Casebacks that are wrong (incorrect name of watches or incorrect for model)
Casebacks that can be unscrewed by hand
Casebacks with no gasket
Casebacks that are not WR (although said to be by dealer)

Bracelets that have stuck or stripped pins, tubes or screws
Bracelets that have faulty clasp (wont stay closed or open at any time)
Bracelets that just fall apart (after a short period of use)
Bracelets that are incorrectly connected to case (bending the springbar to force fit)

Not trying piss you off bro but believe me the high end hipe is just hipe, a rep is a rep and a high end rep is a load of BS, no matter what you paid or the buyers precieved value, and like I said thats the short list.
 

mike 8

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Although there is no right or wrong answer, as usual you are dead on Pec Man!!!
 

Mr. Pap

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Not trying piss you off bro but believe me the high end hipe is just hipe, a rep is a rep and a high end rep is a load of BS, no matter what you paid or the buyers precieved value, and like I said thats the short list.

I dont think you are quite right on this. I dont care if the dealers call them high end or 1:1 made with gen samples etc etc, but a 300$ rep is of course a lot better than a 100$ one, respectively as a 3000$ gen is a lot better than a 300$ rep. You get what you pay for, better parts, movement (even if it is a clone eta, it will be a lot better than a 21j), lume and details lik that... Of course you are correct naming all that defects you can come with, but no way a 300$ rep can compare to a 100$ one...
 

Kal Vilmer

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24/1/11
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Let me rephrase the OP's question:

"Quality or quantity?"

Quality for me, i am way too poor to buy cheap stuff.
 

bigdeal

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you can have 500 reps and your still looking for that best sub and chasing something that doesn't exist or you spend that much have a 10 great quality gens and maybe a few reps and be much more content.

That's one of the main points for me, the thrill of the chase. Finding out how close a $300 item can come to 10k item. Perfection may never be reached, but that's part of what makes it fun... Getting a good rep of a 10k watch for $300 is a great feeling. Who cares if it breaks in a year(and it might not...), just buy another, better one.

Where's the excitement in buying a gen watch? It is what it is, nothing to compare it too, no feeling of beating the system, or finding a diamond in the rough. Anybody can go to the mall and buy a gen watch---not really a big deal or an accomplishment if you ask me... Boring, AND I'd feel like a sucker for paying artificially inflated retail prices... I'd rather just tell time on my phone...

Oh, and reps absolutely have their quality problems, but Gens certainly aren't perfect in that regard either. Anecdotally, within the last 2 months in my office, One guys brand new 7.5k two tone breitling died and took over 2 months to get back fixed(I lent him a rep while it was gone lol) and another guy with a two tone Datejust(less than 2 yrs old, think he paid over 7k for it) had one of the bracelet screw fall out and his watch fell to his desk. I have worn reps every day during that span with no such problems...

IMO, long term quality is overrated anyway. Both decent reps and gens will be out of style long before they "expire" anyway... How many watches of any sort form the 80's, 90's or even 2000's are still sought after today? Of course I'm not talking about rare collector pieces, just mainstream, daily wearer types...

To each his own though, no offense intended. I just have no interest in owning gen watches...
 

sub4me

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I dont think you are quite right on this. I dont care if the dealers call them high end or 1:1 made with gen samples etc etc, but a 300$ rep is of course a lot better than a 100$ one, respectively as a 3000$ gen is a lot better than a 300$ rep. You get what you pay for, better parts, movement (even if it is a clone eta, it will be a lot better than a 21j), lume and details lik that... Of course you are correct naming all that defects you can come with, but no way a 300$ rep can compare to a 100$ one...

I hear you but thats just not the case, if you look at many of the dealers sites they will even tell you something like this; $99 Sub made with exact same case and parts as $399 sub, the only diffrence is the movement where they will then give you a choice something like this; Asian 21J, Asian clone ETA high beat 25J, or the ETA movement (you will almost never get a real ETA anymore) with each choice of movement being priced higher. Now I'm not gonna argue movements (we can do that another time, lol) but thats where in most cases it ends, a diffrent movement. You are not getting a better case, crystal, or bracelet, nothing is diffrent its all precieved as better thats its. Don't believe it?? Go to the cartel, pick a dealer here or buy from some other rep seller, buy their $99 sub and buy there $399 sub and guess what you get?? The exact same watch, only one with a 21J movement and one with a 25J Asian clone thats the diffrence.
 

ztradeg

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That's one of the main points for me, the thrill of the chase. Finding out how close a $300 item can come to 10k item. Perfection may never be reached, but that's part of what makes it fun... Getting a good rep of a 10k watch for $300 is a great feeling. Who cares if it breaks in a year(and it might not...), just buy another, better one.

Where's the excitement in buying a gen watch? It is what it is, nothing to compare it too, no feeling of beating the system, or finding a diamond in the rough. Anybody can go to the mall and buy a gen watch---not really a big deal or an accomplishment if you ask me... Boring, AND I'd feel like a sucker for paying artificially inflated retail prices... I'd rather just tell time on my phone...

Oh, and reps absolutely have their quality problems, but Gens certainly aren't perfect in that regard either. Anecdotally, within the last 2 months in my office, One guys brand new 7.5k two tone breitling died and took over 2 months to get back fixed(I lent him a rep while it was gone lol) and another guy with a two tone Datejust(less than 2 yrs old, think he paid over 7k for it) had one of the bracelet screw fall out and his watch fell to his desk. I have worn reps every day during that span with no such problems...

IMO, long term quality is overrated anyway. Both decent reps and gens will be out of style long before they "expire" anyway... How many watches of any sort form the 80's, 90's or even 2000's are still sought after today? Of course I'm not talking about rare collector pieces, just mainstream, daily wearer types...

To each his own though, no offense intended. I just have no interest in owning gen watches...

you took my words out, feeling just the same here....

" finding a diamond in the rough. Anybody can go to the mall and buy a gen watch"

your just right man, great respond...
 

tommy_boy

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As I read this thread, I am still thinking, "What do we define as a gen?"

Presumably a "gen" is by our definition limited to the brands that the counterfeiters sell?

I'd take a Seiko 5 any day over the reps that I have owned. It has an accurate in-house movement and parts & service are easily obtained. Same goes for Orient.

I don't care for the big flashy watches anyway. I thank the rep market for helping me come to know that fact without dropping thousands of dollars flipping expensive gens.

True, expensive watches are not without defects. And repairs are potentially and actually expensive. But I can say that reps are simply inferior to the real thing in one way or another. I have not had a single rep (other than those that I flipped) without at least one issue. I can't say that about the rest of my watches.

As a hobbyist I will say one thing : I can not imagine going to a mall to buy a watch. There are plenty of watches available on the gray market and from the forum members. Just look around.

As always, just my $0.02 USD.
 

honeybear

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I think this really depends on the kind of watches you enjoy. I'm a fan of ultra high end dress watches and dressy sports watches, think Patek Calatravas, Vacheron Patrimonys, and Audemars Piguet Royal Oaks (not the Offshores).

For my taste, there's no doubt that when I can comfortably afford it, I'll get a gen or two of these watches, since the replicas don't even come close when held in the hand. I have a gen Vacheron Constantin Overseas as well as the replica, and even if one was able to create a fraken with a gen dial, so that it looks visually 99% close to the gen, there is a difference which can be felt on the wrist.

For other watches, like for example the Panerais with the Unitas movements, then the replicas are extraordinarily close, and the value proposition of the gen is a bit more questionable. For me, I would avoid gens which use standard movements like ETAs, Valjoux, or Unitas, since the replicas can potentially be extremely close in terms of replication.

The one Rolex I really want in gen form is the GMT IIC, since there is no replica with a rock solid GMT complication with a quick set 12 hour hand, and it's probably the single most useful complication for me, except for perhaps an alarm. In addition to the GMT IIC, the other watches in my long term gen wishlist are the JLC Grande Reverso Duo, and a Patek Calatrava 5127.

For me, a very nice gen is not an investment, it's not something to impress others with, rather it's something for me to enjoy, and pass down to my children some day. I think everyone should have one of these, and it's mainly a question of finding the right one. Like replicas, not all gens are created equal.
 

plymman

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IMO, long term quality is overrated anyway. Both decent reps and gens will be out of style long before they "expire" anyway... How many watches of any sort form the 80's, 90's or even 2000's are still sought after today? Of course I'm not talking about rare collector pieces, just mainstream, daily wearer types...

To each his own though, no offense intended. I just have no interest in owning gen watches...

An excellent point and one that doesn't get mentioned often. I've sold gens because they started to look dated or I just got plain bored of them and they sat unworn. My first gen was a Tag that I'd saved up a long time for when I was younger, I sold it when I realised it looked like a cheap relic of the 80's and I still have a datejust that never gets worn because it's size is now 'old fashioned'. With reps this is never an issue, just move on to the next rep. I can't think of a single gen that I bought that was still 'in style' 10 or 15 years later. The sub never seems to date and dress watches are a safe bet but 90% of the reps I buy will look dated and out of style long before they've given up the ghost.
 

watsondog

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I must agree 100%, I've also sold gens that are 'dated'.
Some vintage stuff will always be in vogue, but the trend for style over substance we're seeing lately doesnt really cut it for me.
 

mbjoer

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Lots of good points in this discussion. Goes to show that the question is too simplistic.

Having read many similar threads over the last couple of years, I get the impression that many members here end up with a mix. Quite a few reps and just a few gens.

But a rep might be a highly modded franken and the Gen a Casio. So what are we talking about here?

To me there are far too many gens that are just not worth the money. Rolex and Panarai are on top of that list. With these brands you pay a vast amount for marketing and image.

Also the reps are truly great. The long winge list I saw above just does not hold true. My specimens are good looking (even if the occational rehaut engraving is not spot on), water-proof so I can swim with them. And they hold time.

Price comparison: Rep DJII less than $200, Gen DJII RRP well in excess of $8,000.

And remember that you do not only pay for those when you purchase one. Try a service, and for the charges you can probably buy a couple of reps. Those Gens are in my book simply a rip-off.

Service of a rep: $100, service of a Gen $500.

Seiko is a different story. They make very high quality watches and sell those at a price which reflects the quality. And no rep can compete with a GShock for endurance and low price.

Hence for me: Many reps, and some gens. - I think I am not the only one who ended in that situation.
 

mike 8

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I want to thank Boris for starting this thread. I think it has really made us examine why we do what we do.For us (the .9%) who really do care what is on our wrist, many points have been made. All very worthy. I think we can all agree that we like the "art of time" and if we cannot or will not spend 8K for a sub or 20K for a HBB, we know there is an alternative, and we are willing to take a chance to own a rep. We will never get a definitive answer...Aint life great??!! I am so glad to have found RWI..Thanks guys



TIME IS A LIE WE CHOOSE TO BELEIVE
 

Bomba

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I have gen Panerai, Omega, and IWC. I have 8 Rep Panerai, 3 Omega, and 3 IWC. Too many watches, too little time, too little money, I love them all!!!!

But at the end of the day I use the rep to test drive the gen. I don't love some of the reps enough to buy the Gen, and I can't justify owning more than one "type" of gen. IE: I can't justify two Gen Pams, but I can justify an IWC Pilot and an Omega Planet Ocean XL.

Ironically, I bought a gen Daylight to compliment my 111 recently. But I justify that as one complicated face and one simple face.

Wife hates the hobby, but I tell her that it's better than the tens of thousands of dollars I've blown on cars over the years. (I've stopped spending cash on cars, modding of cars, racing cars, buying new cars, etc...)