How much is too much?

[pman]

Here's a question I would like all hard core PAM fans to answer. Would you be willing to buy a used modded( cannon pin, super lume) PAM that was purchased from a well known dealer if it cost $400-$500?

How big is the market for watches at this price point? What is your "too much" price point? Thanks in advance.

 

[watchlover]

Since you have asked this question at the end of you other thread, I will simply copy and paste my answer here again

Think about it this way:

1. If you mod it up to US$500 You have a 99.9% close rep for about 1/6 th the price of a used PAM (they run roughly around US$3000 used). My cutoff for the price of a rep is around 40% of the gen OR US$1000 whichever is less. Above that, might as well get a gen. Not to discount your assumption, but you will have to save on 5 or 6 US$500 reps to get a used gen PAM..

2. Subsequent mods have two possibilities:

• * If you can do it, great, then just wait for the new parts to arrive and bing badaboom done
  * If you can't do it, you'll have to ship it somewhere, pay for shipping, wait for it to come back (boy.. not EZ).

3. Pre-mods are bigger in initial spending, but, hopefully there is little to no subsequent mods needed.

4. Think about your motivation re: getting a rep too. Is it to convince a scrutinizing AD? or is it to convince the general public? OR is it to convince you, that indeed, the watch is the real article.

99.99% of the time, the person looking at the watch is, well, YOU!

People don't care less, unless they're WISes, or an AD salesman trying to get a quick sale


My 2 cents

 

[takashi]

Good pointers... IMHO 1000USD is too high for a rep. My cut off price of rep without mods are 300USD. with mod would be 600USD (the Omega PO is an exception :lol.

 

[pzissimos]

Even though I dont know watchlover321 or takashi,
I have to agree. watchlover321 gave me a whole new perspective about
the amounts spent. Thanks.
The majority of people even today after all the popularity, still dont
know PAM's all that well, so even if you pay $500 for a modded PAM
and its 99% its still abargain instead of $3k for a 100% PAM.

Good Luck!

 

[takashi]

Even then... I shall say that rep price is a little bit high. Look at Tissot Seastar 1000. It's a genuine with retail price about 600USD and you can get on the street about 40% less. If Shutter Bug offers this piece, I would snatch it instantly.

EDIT: hmmm not so high as compared to a few years ago. Well... you dealers have set a history.

 

[watchlover]

I couldn't agree more with Taka. The rep prices are indeed a bit high, and sometimes the quality is not on par with a gen watch around the same price range.. example: US$300 Seiko vs US$300 Rep. I'll vouch that the Seiko outlasts, outbuilds, and is usually rated a true 200m for diver watches...

 

[takashi]

Well... if you take ByTor's approach of quality over quantity, you'll not be disappointed. I am exercising self control now. My last purchase was IWC Ingenieur which is about 1 month ago.

 

[Novesh]

personally, I don't mind spending a nice amount on a rep but if the price of the rep gets to be in the 20 percent tile of the gen ill just save for the gen.

I havnt spent more than 250 on a rep, yet.


its all on perception. do you want the watch because you like the way it looks or do you want it to make people envouis? I know I have watches which I have solely to make people wonder.

 

[takashi]

Brand Recognition? Most of us would answer yes... or at least that's one of considerations when getting a rep. It's just where are one leaning to.

 

[pugwash]

example: US$300 Seiko vs US$300 Rep. I'll vouch that the Seiko outlasts, outbuilds, and is usually rated a true 200m for diver watches...

Here's another example. Imagine you had $200 and wanted to buy a watch. You show me one genuine new watch as good as what you can get as a replica.

... and don't forget my brand new Seiko Diver turned out to leak before you suggest that.

 

[pugwash]

ps. I believe $300 is the absolute upper limit I'm prepared to pay, or at least it was until I threw $250 of mods into my GST.

 

[Novesh]

ps. I believe $300 is the absolute upper limit I'm prepared to pay, or at least it was until I threw $250 of mods into my GST.

well, now a days when someone says pugwash they automatically think iwc gst ti.

hahaha

 

[watchlover]

Depends on what you want and what you meant when you say "as good as" form? function? Quality? 200 presidents will get you a nice new gshock, other casios, timex, swatch, zodiac, swiss army, citizen, to name a few.

Sorry to hear that your seiko diver leaks. Take it back to your local seiko dealer and they will fix it for you, they will even replace it if the watch is recently bought.

example: US$300 Seiko vs US$300 Rep. I'll vouch that the Seiko outlasts, outbuilds, and is usually rated a true 200m for diver watches...

Here's another example. Imagine you had $200 and wanted to buy a watch. You show me one genuine new watch as good as what you can get as a replica.

... and don't forget my brand new Seiko Diver turned out to leak before you suggest that.

 

[watchlover]

@pug :I agree with that i once told myself i wont spend more than 300 on one rep . But all the pre servicing and the mods are really taxing...but it sure is fun!

ps. I believe $300 is the absolute upper limit I'm prepared to pay, or at least it was until I threw $250 of mods into my GST.

 

[pugwash]

Sorry to hear that your seiko diver leaks. Take it back to your local seiko dealer and they will fix it for you, they will even replace it if the watch is recently bought.

I had to pay for the service as I was in Thailand and my papers were not. No big deal, but I was without a watch for a week and had to buy an Orange Monster to make up for it.

Seriously, all the other reps you mentioned are digital or quartz. That's not the point, as Quartz watches are soulless.

 

[watchlover]

Seriously, all the other reps you mentioned are digital or quartz. That's not the point, as Quartz watches are soulless.

You mean 'gen' right? But I won't pick on ya, cause I understand what you meant
I couldn't agree more I'll throw in Vostok or Poljot there if you're looking for mech watches, but some like it, some hate it.. just like everything else I only collect mech watches.

I got me a Zodiac Auto Big diver couple of months ago. That was awesome! It doesn't fit in the US$200 category though, it's around $330.

I also have an old style poljot aviator which I like This fits in the US$200 category as I got it for $240

 

[rogerwine]

If you go on The Poor Mans Watch Forum there are all kinds of very good gen watches that can be had from $100.00 to $300.00 USD. Yes they are all second hand, but a lot still have warrenties. THis debate seems to come up all the time in various threads on this forum. When I have a rep where the case , bezel ,dial, crown and bracelet holds up for more then 2 years, that will really be something. On my gens I have never had one of them fail. On all my older reps the things keep working, but they just look like shit. But most were in the $100.00 range and I didn't expect a long life from them. It is just now, that I have gotten into $300.00 + reps that I am having some quality control problems that I think are unreasonable for the money. Of the 5 watches I have received I have had to send 3 back for repair or replacement. But that being said they definately are getting better and better. To the point that they are very seductive. Davidsens offerings to me are gen fantasy watches and I will buy with great confidence. Beliak's business model is very promising and at least at the outset seems to address some of the quality control issues as does TTKs 10 reasons why. Andrew and Josh's influence with the ir suppliers bode well for future quality control issues being less and less of an issue. El and Ruby are just flat out fun to deal with. So the playing field is getting better and better and we are maybe entering a golden age. But with better quality I think we will have to expect some price creep from generation to generation. We could probabley be looking at closer to $400.00 per item next year, but we could be dealing with some fairly spiffy watches. If China cracks down on the rep business in the near future at least there will be some producers that should be able to churn out some damn good watches with new Chinese brand names, with near Swiss quality movements and with great aesthetic appeal at $200 to $300 USD.
And the Circle goes round and round!!
rogerwine

 

[hk45ca]

if i were you i would follow davidsen's priceing. the watches really don't need anything to speak of. if you improve some things to make them better than his you could probably increace the price accordingly.

as far as the cut off limit on a rep? it's about 350.00 or less for me. but if you want to go all out on a tt sub you will pass that amount quickly. i have to really like the particular peice to do this to it.

 

[pugwash]

there are all kinds of very good gen watches that can be had from $100.00 to $300.00 USD. Yes they are all second hand, but a lot still have warrenties.

And ETA movements? Or Chronos?

 

[rogerwine]

Yes, ETA and Chronos;
Blue Tissot Seastar ETA auto $225.00
Hughs Aviator Chrono 3133 $275.00 OBO
O&W Swiss pilot 25j ETA $219.00
Hamilton Field Khaki Chrono 7750 Valjoux $430.00 OBO
IW Marine Diver 25j ETA $225.00
Citizen Shyhawk Titan Eco drive $145.00
Citizen Blue Angel Eco Drive $185.00
Nivada President 25j ETA $140.00
Many Seiko autos

A partial from just today.
rogerwine