How much is TOO much? Reps vs Gens

[nipe]

Please don't take this the wrong way, but it sounds like you are kinda bitchin about reps....maybe you are, but
You have been around for a long time with lots of posts. I would think that by now you would know that you are not really paying for reliability when you are buying a rep. Still, for $300-$400 lots of both Gens and reps that will be reliable. If you are really worried about reliability in reps, buy only reps with either Gen Miyota or Seiko movements. Even the Asian ETA's I have had good luck with in the past 5 yrs & if something does go wrong they are easy to fix as lots of guys know their way around an ETA movement or you can always replace with a gen ETA.


This is something that I just don't understand why people get their undies in a bunch over. Get over it. A $50 Seiko or Citizen or Orient etc is made in a modern clean environment with most likely 100% automation. Reps are illegally made in an unsanitary environment put together by underpaid Chinese workers & they are mostly waterproof despite this. Go get the damn thing tested for $20 and be done with it, or buy/make yourself a tester and do it yourself for free. Why is it even an issue?


Now with this you have pointed out exactly what the purpose of the thread was in the first place. At some point all the $50 additions add up to real money and the rep is just so expensive that it hardly seems to make sense.

I guess the truth of it is that everyone has different motivations and opinions about this and I think it is interesting to hear a variety of opinions.

I certainly was bitching

Not about reps in general, but with the unreliability you still get with the higher prices they're pushing for. I think most ETA movements still cost around $350 which is fine. Around the same price it has always been. If TD's want to charge these $500-900 for a rep, then they should certainly offer better QC on their end if the factories aren't going to. I've sent a watch to a trusted EU watchmaker before, took like 1-3 months before I got it back. Not a fan of that.

They can certainly hire "proper" watchmakers that give the movements a service before they go out. Imagine one TD offering that - boom.

I guess they don't care because they don't need to. People are apparently lining up to pay these prices. Soon there will be waitlists for reps as well

As for reliability: so far I've been more or less lucky I guess. My first ever Noob sub ran like 30-40sec fast per day. Otherwise they have been OK.. Nothing spectacular in terms of time keeping but they haven't crapped on me completely. Last rep received runs way fast but winding and everything is super smooth so I suspect it's just magnetized. Haven't bother dealing with it tbh. Never bought a rep for their precise timekeeping.

 

[Nanook65]

I certainly was bitching
Not about reps in general, but with the unreliability you still get with the higher prices they're pushing for. ...............
They can certainly hire "proper" watchmakers that give the movements a service before they go out. Imagine one TD offering that - boom.
I guess they don't care because they don't need to. People are apparently lining up to pay these prices. Soon there will be waitlists for reps as well
.............

I think you and I are basically on the same page. I am not super into the whole status thing so I am not a fan of AP, PP, Rolex etc anyway. Above about $500 or so I feel like I enjoy a Gen just as much and probably get better quality for the same $. I guess you could say somewhere in the $400-$500 range is my breaking point. Maybe yours is a little lower.

 

[stufuse]

Guess it’s all relative to the price of the Gen and what sort of replication you get for the money.

In rep Clothing (especially sneakers) people pay out up to just over a 3rd of the cost of a Gen pair (at retail) on good reps. I think that’s madness.


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[petethai]

Personally, I would no mind paying USD 1.000 - 1.500 for a SUPER Replica Rolex.

And I would in these days rather buy a Replica, than a Gen Rolex. Simply because I do not think Gen Rolex's are worth it and I have especially gotten sick of Rolex's sales strategy (low supply of popular models, horrible customer service, waiting-lists and stupid inflated prices)

I can't personally be bothered to have to create a so-called "good relationship" with a Rolex AD, just to buy a watch. I don't have time for it and honestly I could care less about having to befriend some stupid arrogant watch-dealer.

In the old days, buying a real Rolex was a great experience and totally worth the AD visit. The AD was friendly, had a lot in stock and would even be happy to offer you a discount. That's how it should be. You should not have to beg to buy a USD +10K watch. So unless that changes, I will stick to replicas and enjoy easy access to watches without all the current BS from Rolex and their ADs.

I have worn Gens for over 20 years. I know that nobody asks me if it is real or not. I don't care if it is real or not. I look at and enjoy the design quality. So if China comes out with a SUPER SUPER replica for USD 1.500, then I would have no problems in buying it.

 

[petethai]

My main problem is that even when you pay more than $300 you still end up with a watch that has a movement which could crap out any time on you. If/when that happens you're just fucked, specially with these clone movements. As soon as a watch is priced higher than $300, that shit needs to be reliable. Gen or rep.

Even the rep subs priced at $500-800 aren't even waterproof, what the fuck is up with that? I can buy a gen watch for $50 that will be waterproof to 200m. Rep factories can't even properly make a DIVERS watch that will be properly waterproof out of the factory?

The fact is, production costs aren't higher than when Noob were doing V6s versions. Each new Noob version adds another $50 on top but barely anything has changed, whatever they changed in the new version didn't affect the manufacturing cost. Well perhaps the addition of an unreliable clone movement.

I agree completely on the waterproof issue. I have just recently started getting into Reps and find it amazing how people here go into detail when it comes to design, but seems to care less about a divers watch being water proof or not. I would be happy to pay more for a Rep watch with an ETA movement and being water proof down to e.g. 100 meters. I don't understand that lack of focus on that.

 

[Sonofalich]

To be honest, depending on how China economy does will affect the price too. Right now China are artificially keeping the price of their currency low... it's why their inflation rate has dropped so significantly. China needs a large inflation rate to grow. Whereas developed world have inflation targets of around 2%. (It's one of the reasons the US went to trade war with China)

This makes the price of their goods cheap to import, and this applies to the rep market too.

Rep prices might creep up naturally anyway. They should naturally inflate by a minimum of 2%-5% (real inflation is around that mark) annually. That and any time monetary policy including quantitative easing is used.

However, if China does address its monetary policy, then rep prices will hit $800-1000 easily. It just depends whether China wants to keep inflation low or get it back to growth periods again... and truthfully, who knows?

But anyway, I digress you raise a good point. When does a rep stop becoming good value? I think about $1,000 for most high end watches. For Tudors etc... more like $500. I don't think I'd ever pay more than 1/4 of the gen's value for a rep. Ie, a £2,000 tudor... I'd pay up to £500 for. Because after that... in my mind it starts crossing a threshold where I'd rather buy the gen.

However, Rolex models are pretty much non existent for RRP so.... even if they hit $1,000 there's probably still a market. Time will tell.

 

[miscusi]

depends how good the reps are. If there is a rep where I cant "experience" the difference, there is no way in heck I will pay significantly more for a gen. Because Gens are ripping people off anyway, it dont cost them anywhere near that much to make those watches nowadays, it aint some skilled craftsman spending a year on your watch anymore. Its a machine that shoots one out every 15 seconds... well not really but you get my point.

but going back to your question, I say a rep of the quality I speak of above, should cost less than the Manufacturer suggested 5 year "service" price. So I remember rolex said a service every 5 years, and it was 500 bucks. So you pay no more than 500 for a Rep. So.. its like a free watch. LOL I think rolex nowadays are trying to convince you that its 10 years at $1,000 a service.. which comes out to 500 every 5 years still.

 

[Nosonofmine]

I just recently bought a Longines Hydroconquest and simply cannot see why I should spend EUR 300 plus secure shipping while I can have the gen for EUR 1k.
The plus is always that a Gen can be serviced no matter what. So if a gen gets a knock I can get repaired pretty much everywhere. If a rep brakes I can possibly throw it in the bin.
So I am a lot less careful wearing a gen in my daily activities.


Unless I know a watch maker but that's (for a newbie to reps) a challenge and time consuming. But then it is a matter of spare parts etc.
Also it feels differently wearing a gen compared to the rep.

I wouldn't buy a rep if the gen is less than EUR 2k. That's the hurdle at least for myself.

 

[Hesekiel]

Everything is relative. If memory serves me, many years back I paid the great Kilowattore to build me a Panerai 6152/1 for about $1,250 with an genuine ETA. Adding a Rolex 618 would have brought the price up to about $5K. Still, an original costs $250,000, so I'm not complaining . . .

 

[pe.geffroy]

It’s extremely interesting to see all the different views on the subject, i’m feeling also that the max price point for a rep is the 1000$ mark, but as entering in the rep world 6/7 years ago it’s a long journey.

I mean back then price were cheaper, and the quality was indeed lower, 3 years back, there was this kind of balance between quality and price. Now most reps gets sold new for around 600$ but i guess that’s the current market value, and quality got better. The thing that i found really impressive tho, is how the gen market seems to impact the rep market, the demand is driven by the gen trends, and most model sold are mostly the new rolex or hard to find patek.

There’s also lot or articles that underlines that most new rep watches consumer are just gen consumer that are tired to never get a gen watch a the retail price…

For myself, i love buying and wearing reps, even tho i always have pleasure reading books, articles and watching videos about genuine watches, but to be honest nowdays since covid, inflation and everything, reps are good so you can enjoy a new watch without burning a massive part of your assets, and spending all your money.

As many mentionned above, it’s more about each persons financially capacity, and envy.


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