How much is a person willing to spend on a Rep?

[CISO1969]

Beano:

I am not RBJ--his user name is RBJ69

I am simply a fellow Rep WIS that found out recently that he was shutdown from getting basic assistance on some Pam related questions. Why? well directly because of your actions and the experiences that a knowledgeable Pam enthusiast had with you. He made the decision not to deal with newbies again and even stated he now understood why the guys involved in the Angelus projects do not get involved with helping out or answering questions. The anger level was such that I cannot agree that it was simply over buying or not buying some parts. His posts I have read over the last few months and his constant offers of assistance and answering various questions when posted are a legacy to me that he is not the problem. The people this hurt were not just you, but your fellow collectors and hobbyists.

The other side of this story from RWG... [edit, I decided to edit out this part as it was not my place nor is it fair to relay this as that would be up to the party involved and from me would just be hearsay].


I do not know you personally, but my read on this based on what I have just read today, your response, this other person's reaction, and my following of his ongoing and informative, friendly posts on RWG over the last few months - is that you probably did not do the right thing.

Why did you feel it necessary to tell us that "i talk to JImmy on a daily basis buying his cases, bezels, and what not ... " Could this be a little name dropping? A lot of us talk to Jimmy periodically. He's a great guy. A lot of us buy his parts. I personally do not feel the need to drop his name to reinforce that I am a serious Pam enthusiast. Truth be told, I am new to this and learning a lot. I try to keep my mouth shut and listen. I try to learn from the guys who are knowledgeable and not try to suck up to them or drop their names so people think we are buddies and/or in the same league simply because I can drop their name or that I shoot them e-mails.

You want to impress me? Show me photos when your project is done and share your knowledge as to how you built this project and the steps or mods involved. Name dropping and then also having respected people on other boards refusing to deal with you ever again, does not impress me.


CISO

 

[kazushi]

I would go up to 300 USD for a very good swiss rep.

 

[willster]

My problem is that I like watches...period.....lots of watches....hey I'm a "collector"
I like funky watches .....all brands .....and anything that strike my fancy....Rep or Gen

I pretty much am of the mind that $500 USD max is what I want to spend for a rep.....recently purchased three Tag Gens (new) and three Seikos...fun stuff.....all for short money

am now buying a number of reps for Wife, daughter and her fiance.....

not really addicted to reps for status.....of course its part of it...but more often than not....nobody knows what a Frank Muller or even PAM is...let alone some of the other lesser known luxury brands....

ask 500 people to name 5 luxury watch brands and I bet you wont get anymore than 3 names from 90% of them...Rolex....mmmmm...let me think....cartier.......mmmmmm....seiko

:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Wyvern]

@Bill you forgot the penultimate luxury brand Accutron :lol:

Available at a Wal-Mart near you

 

[Chicken Manny]

$1700 for the top of the line 18k RG FM.

 

[willster]

Don't forget Citizen, Casio, and Fossil, Willster!!

Damn...that's 6. :lol:

Yeah but you cheated Bill....you've studied this stuff.....and know a little more about watches than you are letting on

LMAO

:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[warpedpig]

@Bill you forgot the penultimate luxury brand Accutron :lol:

Available at a Wal-Mart near you

Don't you mean Armitron? Accutron is a high quality subdivision of Bulova that has been around for a long time.

 

[beano2004]

Cisco, thats weird when i read the message it had RBJ69 affixed to it thats why i replied to it in such a fashion.

 

[rbj69]

Beano:

I am not RBJ--his user name is RBJ69

I am simply a fellow Rep WIS that found out recently that he was shutdown from getting basic assistance on some Pam related questions. Why? well directly because of your actions and the experiences that a knowledgeable Pam enthusiast had with you. He made the decision not to deal with newbies again and even stated he now understood why the guys involved in the Angelus projects do not get involved with helping out or answering questions. The anger level was such that I cannot agree that it was simply over buying or not buying some parts. His posts I have read over the last few months and his constant offers of assistance and answering various questions when posted are a legacy to me that he is not the problem. The people this hurt were not just you, but your fellow collectors and hobbyists.

The other side of this story from RWG... [edit, I decided to edit out this part as it was not my place nor is it fair to relay this as that would be up to the party involved and from me would just be hearsay].


I do not know you personally, but my read on this based on what I have just read today, your response, this other person's reaction, and my following of his ongoing and informative, friendly posts on RWG over the last few months - is that you probably did not do the right thing.

Why did you feel it necessary to tell us that "i talk to JImmy on a daily basis buying his cases, bezels, and what not ... " Could this be a little name dropping? A lot of us talk to Jimmy periodically. He's a great guy. A lot of us buy his parts. I personally do not feel the need to drop his name to reinforce that I am a serious Pam enthusiast. Truth be told, I am new to this and learning a lot. I try to keep my mouth shut and listen. I try to learn from the guys who are knowledgeable and not try to suck up to them or drop their names so people think we are buddies and/or in the same league simply because I can drop their name or that I shoot them e-mails.

You want to impress me? Show me photos when your project is done and share your knowledge as to how you built this project and the steps or mods involved. Name dropping and then also having respected people on other boards refusing to deal with you ever again, does not impress me.


CISO

i call bull on this one cisco and i can say beano has contacted me like a gentleman and told me his side cause he didnt want me worried about him as a customer and it seems to me V may have jumped the gun as well , see cisco this is the crap that these forums suck about , why dont u read everything instead of reading one side? right now u judged beano and there is no reason for that imho

do u know how many people i help out to find stuff and or advice and never get a penny? ( do i get pissed off f? NO ) why? , that is part of acting like u know something about watches, people r going to ask u to help them and if u act like u can help educate them like V clearly did with the Pam 003 to beano , imho V thought maybe beano was going to buy the stuff from him , and when he gave him the prices beano did like everyone does and price shopped ? correct? well he found that he could save a 100 bucks, so he declined V's offer, this is america , its ok if u want to save a buck here , lol

cisco please dont take offense but i think u have been rude to someone u dont even know and when my name got brought up in this i felt it was time to tell it like it really is and not what u think

now u say V is respected member, why is beano not a respected member? and V if u r reading this im not saying u r bad either, im just saying this shit is over and beano doesnt deserve this , the apology was made and accepted so to me it is over and should not even been brought up on this thread

Cisco im not trying to make u feel bad but i am trying to make u open your eyes and read everything and not just what u want to read and make out of it


beano i know you were just curious if u r spending too much on this Pam project of yours , and u wanted to see basically if u r the only nut out there that will spend over a grand for a watch project and i can tell u , hell no , cause i for one can tell u i have and many of my friends here will spend that in a minute if it is a watch they just have to have in there collection , take me for one , recently i had to have the BCE with swiss movment 700 bucks and u know i have to do some upgrades to it , so yes bamm 1000 bucks , lol

anyway i dont want to argue back and forth and if u dont see u thread crapped then i dont know what to tell u but when read the heading , it is simply asking u how much r u willing to spend on a rep. , for the life of me i dont see where it says anything about someones character

Ciso please dont think im trying to be mean to u , because i like u just the same as any here, i even have helped u via pm , but i just had to speak up for beano cause it seemed u were getting on him pretty hard for no apparent reason other he asked questions and got some prices and decided to save a buck and buy from somewhere else, just my two cents but again please dont take it out of context and again i think u r a nice guy but may have bought in to that lets follow the leader crap that goes on from time to time

later guys

joe

 

[butterfly]

I'd pay what the current maket is!!

 

[kresog]

usualy $300, but real limit in my mind is $500. On every 2 watches for me, I have to by one for my wife (bloody PAMs)

 

[CISO1969]

RBJ & Beano:

I did not read any thread in RWG--if there was one, I should read it and will do so.

My own experience is that I asked a legitimate question in a board where one assumes people will help out and then out of the blue I am told I will not get my answer because of the acftions of another person. When I went to PM that person, what came up was a tag (Im not sure what you call it?) that stated "sorry CISO, but such and such did such and such, etc."

RBJ, my understanding is that Beano PM'd this guy with endless questions and then agreed to buy a movement as a way of thanking him--and then backed out. I had edited these comments from my original post as I stated in the note--it's secondhand info from me and can be considerd hearsay--which is why I decided not to air that laundry , but feel that since it was brought up here by you--I'd tell what I read in V's tag.

Most people do not get that upset that easily without cause. I have read V's posts over the last few months seeing how he has helped many people with answers and has been very positive. His recent reaction to my simple question, based on his interaction with Beano, appears to be totally out of character for him. There has to be something to it. (read his posts at RWG and you will also see what I mean). He did decide to help me after all, for which I am grateful--he potentially saved me from spending money I may not have had to.

All know is that I, a member of this rep community, was shut down because of the actions of another. V was adamant about not helping any more newbies--and that is not good for anyone.

Guys let's use some common sense with this stuff. Here's my sopabox so that hopefully something good will come out of the potential shared ill will here:

Think about all the wonderful resources we have at all three boards. Think about who answered your last board post asking for info. The ratio of "experts" responding is pretty slim as the guys who are the "known" experts, are tired of being used and abused by the latest newbie with a watch bug who wants the bigger better toy--or worse yet, wants to be their new "friend" so they can be part of the "in" clique. The average Joe who just wants a place to share information and ideas and to learn how to improve his watches is the guy who now loses because of these actions.

Just read the statement regarding Angelus movements by Enzo to see what I mean. Do you think Enzo is a mean guy? Nope--but he is probably tired of the endless queries eevery three weeks from the new crop of Angelus owner wannabe's and I do not blame him.

Maybe the answer is to establish an online database with FAQ's and tips (beyondthe humble "mod" section on our board)? Maybe it is better policing of our membership? Who knows. But something is definately wrong when a guy can't ask a legitimate question and get a straight answer from anyone because the one guy who knows the answer feels he has been taken advantage of and doesnt want to get involved. That's bad for the community. Guys just as we tell people not to screw things up for everyone by reporting dealers to PayPal-- maybe we should tell people not to screw things up by taking advantage of the goodwill of resident experts? maybe there should be a board code of ethics? In the example RBJ and I just discussed--the guy took a movement for a cheper price--but that doesn't factor in the three days of help and assistance this expert gave him--or the goodwill and thanks to the community preserved by honoring your pledge. Was his help worth the $75 or $100 saved? Was screwing things up for others worth that?

Beano--if I have judged you harshly, then I am truly sorry. But keep in mind my comments and reaction are based purely by the direct cause and effect that dealing with you had on influencing how V (and others?) decided not to help myself and others. Whether in the long run it is shown that he is wrong and your are right di\oesn't change the cause and effect and what happened to me as a result of him dealing with you.

RBJ: no offense taken. But I didn't thread crap or jump in until my buttons got punched by the name dropping etc. I think my posting history will show I am usually a pretty levelheaded guy 8)

My one regret is that I did this publically and did not send beano a PM first, but I am human and I am guilty of reacting to the things in hisoriginal posts that I referenced as name dropping.

I am glad to hear that you both V and Beano have subsequently worked things out. Hopefully some good will come out of this thread too--if nothing else then to get people to think about their actions--either because of my posts (if you agree or disagree), the suggestions made, or the reported aftermath of how things can go wrong on the boards and we learn from that.

That's about all guys.

Thanks,

CISO

 

[rbj69]

Hey Ciso , that was well written and well said , and i absolutely see your points, as i think u see beanos as well now

now mainly my point was only this , like u said u have seen V help many people , and that is great, but u have to also understand that it is just that ,free help only because he wanted to help , sort of like i do , i help advise many people behind closed doors and in open forum all the time and i dont expect a dime and hope no one ever feels that way, and from my understanding beano never said he will buy the movment becasue V exchanged a few emails/pms he simply was thinking about it , so i see no harm done here , unless V's intentions were to make a buck by helping beano out(which i doubt) ,but then that would be a whole nother story


its like this , do u know how many people email / pm me with questions or ask me for my advice on a watch i have made better in the past? hundreds and hundreds, and i never help them with the intentions of them sending me the watch to do the work for them , now on the other hand sometimes my help to them will result in a job being sent my way , and that is great as well, but just like u and me talking about pvd stuff, i didnt try and give u help and or advice on pvd to make a buck , but u may one day decide u want pvd done and u will remember i helped u with some advice and send it to me but then again another pvd guy may provide u with the same pvd for half the money , well u may send it to that guy to save a buck and that is ok and how america is most of the time, lol (but i like the way u think the best on this issue)

example: i recently have done some work for a member here , and i have seen him send his watch to another guy to work on(after i advised him on what i think it would take to make the watch even better) , that is fine to , i know why he did it, to save money , the other guy was cheaper on that certain job than me , thats life, lol and it wasnt a 100 dollar savings afterall, lol

i have some customers that will send me stuff cause im cheaper on certain things or about the same price but they know im better at that particular job and send it to me , lol the difference in me is i dont have to price compare to someone , i basically set the prices a couple years back and the new guys are going to go cheaper for one reason only and that is to get work , this is smart business, imho

on the other hand i have many many loyal customers that will not let anyone but me touch there watch and that is great , the main reason for this is because we have become friends and they know they r really saving money this way , cause they do many watches all the time and r picky picky people lol

i also have a few guys out there that hate me and i never done any work for them , lmao i laugh for one reason "cause i can" those guys need medication and need to get over themselves and i will leave it at that

in conclusion ,, helping people is part of the hobby and u shouldnt feel like u wasted your time just because the guy u helped didnt end up giving u something back , i think now u see the whole picture and and i sure do appreciate u being honest and upfront and didnt take it out of context , that proves u r a good guy , which i could tell that anyway , lol

im sure beano will feel better now as well , u guys should talk he is a watch lover perfectionist imo

love u guys and thanks again for listening , usually people take disagreements to heart and feel like they have to fire back on these forums and it really never gets u anywhere, im still learning this , lol

good nite
joe

 

[beano2004]

Ciso, while i see why many people who want to lash out on me for what happened without understanding the details i'm no newbie, so when people started attacking my character and start saying that i was a bad egg and people should not buy from me i took that offensively and unless i stand up and speak nobody will hear my side of the story. I respect what you are saying and yes this is true if in the future the "subject matter experts" feel the its its time to start charing a fee for this informatin, im ok with that. I never had a problem buying anything from anybody, but there were circumstances in this situation that people to this day are failing to see and that is ok. I have had some long conversations wiht people regading this matter and all that whole me understand the situation.

RBJ, i truely appreicate you posting a statement and letting people truly understand the situation, some people say they dont want my business, i say OK there are plenty of people out here that will take my business. I know for one you have many of my projects and have done work on many of my watches and you have no problem taking my money...LMAO and i never had tried to price shop you... I did day i would pay for a manucure, i mean after all if the thumb is going to be in every pic might as well dress the boy dont you think.... LMAO...... well anyways you know what im saying. Im glad the whole situaiton is over and i never intened to start that up again here.

Bean

 

[CISO1969]

"SME's", I see someone else is suffering through the woes of corporate America. Hopefully you are not also subjected to "Sixth Sigma". Jack Welsh should be tried for war crimes for introducing this dehuminizing load of crap into corporate America... but that's for another thread

 

[pugwash]

Think about all the wonderful resources we have at all three boards. Think about who answered your last board post asking for info. The ratio of "experts" responding is pretty slim as the guys who are the "known" experts, are tired of being used and abused by the latest newbie with a watch bug who wants the bigger better toy--or worse yet, wants to be their new "friend" so they can be part of the "in" clique. The average Joe who just wants a place to share information and ideas and to learn how to improve his watches is the guy who now loses because of these actions.

I have recently added the following line to my signature on RWG:
"Before you PM me, are you sure it's something only I can answer or would it be best asked of the forum as a whole?"

Yes, I did this when I had to start clearing my PM box out regularly of questions like "Is Trusty's blah blah better than Josh's?" which I found annoying, especially seeing as I'm effectively blacklisted by both those dealers. :shock:

Almost every PM I receive from someone I don't know would have been better as a post to Flame Free here or wherever over on RWG. I understand now why Klink speaks Klinkon as often as he does, as it scares the n00bs away from asking him about the latest generation PO, while affording him a high post-count.

 

[Chris3]

Looking at the Hublot Big Bang

I'm good to pay the 400.00 asking price. For me its the quality of watch for what I spend. As long as I get a 400.00 watch for my money I'm happy.

 

[beano2004]

Pugwash i see your point and i understand you completly. When i do PM someone its never about is this dealer better than that dealer it has always been about items that are very unique and rare and only the select few have the opportunity of obtaining. Im not into the latest PO ( not becasue i dont like them, its not my cup of tea) if I would have known this wuold have been the outcome i never would have started this whole mess. My initial question was about the person who sold me the dial and if this was genuine, this is not a question i would post on the open forum.

Thanks and i hope we can put this issue to bed and get back to collecting watches...

Thanks Bean

 

[pugwash]

My initial question was about the person who sold me the dial and if this was genuine, this is not a question i would post on the open forum.

As far as your situation, it was puit to bed days ago. We're now discussing the generalities, not your specific case.

However, if someone I didn't know were to PM/mail me asking if something were genuine and I didn't know them, I'd think twice before answering.

 

[CISO1969]

Who's got the best pug?

BTW I read all the posts at RWG on this just now (had no idea there was such a huge post in "General Discussion"--as I just kept checking the Paneria section for a response to my query)

You know that "tag" thing I was talking about, LMAO, I can't believe I didn't figure out that was the "recent post" section when you access a persons profile! As you can see, I spend most of my rep time here and every now and then go back to RWG and TRC. I am not familair with how their boards work as much as here.

Anyway, after reading the thread from V and the comments from Bean, I will say that my call/assessment was probably a good one on this. I also reviewed the apology thread and even though I was hard pressed to see a clear cut apology, until after a few other people stated this same observation in that same thread, I am once again glad to see that a truce exists and the apologies have all been accepted.

Maybe we can all learn something from this I hope?

OK , so who's got the best bucket?

CISO