How many of you...?

[Tonyy]

I can sympathize with you. My parents came here after the collapse of the Soviet Union with $100 in the early 90's, and are both pretty successful now, in part due to government help.

I too have been disappointed at what has transpired recently, but still, when I drive through working class neighborhoods near me, see plenty of hard working day laborers, working for peanuts so that their kids can have a better life than them.

For sure. I know there are plenty of middle class people working 12 hour labor shifts or 2 full time jobs just to provide for their families. All my hope is not lost in this country but like everywhere else, there are some who take advantage. It's just how it is and will always be.

 

[rhp1462]

I agree with you that there is abuse, and that must be fixed. However, it really irks me when people just say that a sizeable portion of the population is lazy, because they are less fortunate than others.

I'm not blind, I know there is plenty of abuse, and that is unfortunate, but I think its wrong to punish everyone for the actions of others.

Cuts are not the answer to this, increased oversight is.

And what our current or past administrations have done about it. Answer is, not a damn thing.

We are living in one of the most technologically advanced country and yet our government fails to catch the criminals who steal money that should have went to poor people. Every election these politicians come and make promises about bullshit and people buy that bull shit. Just a small and stupid example would be abortion or gun control. If bush was so much against abortion clinics, why did he not ban all of them. If Obama was so much for it why they are not everywhere like Mickey d's? Answer is that they don't give a shit about abortion. Same goes for gun control. They just want to keep playing same tape over and over till next election so they would have something to talk about. It goes for every politician. They are just dividing us more and more to make sure of their vote banks and coming generations of voters. Quit buying their bullshit. Every time a politician is believed, Americans loose.
We are here to share our love for watches but politicians also made sure that we are at each others' throats over shit they created.



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[rhp1462]

I can sympathize with you. My parents came here after the collapse of the Soviet Union with $100 in the early 90's, and are both fairly successful now, in part due to government assistance that helped get them on their feet.

I too have been disappointed at what has transpired recently, but still, when I drive through working class neighborhoods near me, see plenty of hard working day laborers, working for peanuts so that their kids can have a better life than them.

Sad thing is that those hard workers are not getting much assistance. Because they chose to go out and got a job.


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[mzcool]

And what our current or past administrations have done about it. Answer is, not a damn thing.

We are living in one of the most technologically advanced country and yet our government fails to catch the criminals who steal money that should have went to poor people. Every election these politicians come and make promises about bullshit and people buy that bull shit. Just a small and stupid example would be abortion or gun control. If bush was so much against abortion clinics, why did he not ban all of them. If Obama was so much for it why they are not everywhere like Mickey d's? Answer is that they don't give a shit about abortion. Same goes for gun control. They just want to keep playing same tape over and over till next election so they would have something to talk about. It goes for every politician. They are just dividing us more and more to make sure of their vote banks and coming generations of voters. Quit buying their bullshit. Every time a politician is believed, Americans loose.
We are here to share our love for watches but politicians also made sure that we are at each others' throats over shit they created.



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I think that there are some genuine politicians.

John Mccain and Elizabeth Warren to name two. Maybe Christie

I can't say that Obama isn't genuine. I think he, like a lot of others had a lot of ideas when he came into office and then quickly realized most of them won't happen. Obamacare is still a very big achievement for a president that was two years into his first term.

I honestly think it would have been much better off if the Republicans didn't barricade themselves and whine and whine and instead gave good input as to how it could be improved instead of their trying to save money for their corporate donors.

People who go out and get jobs, good for them. I know my parents both tried to find work when they came here and to a certain degree, they did, but it didn't pay nearly enough to keep them off of government assistance. They were only lifted out of poverty when my mom got a job at a architectural firm in NYC as a programmer (a programmer by the way, not by choice, but because she had no other opportunities in Anti-Semitic Soviet Russia).

If I had it my way, people who are able bodied, and not caring for kids, would have to get a job, or be kicked off of govt assistance.

 

[Tonyy]

Sad thing is that those hard workers are not getting much assistance. Because they chose to go out and got a job.


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So true.

 

[rhp1462]

I think that there are some genuine politicians.

John Mccain and Elizabeth Warren to name two. Maybe Christie

I can't say that Obama isn't genuine. I think he, like a lot of others had a lot of ideas when he came into office and then quickly realized most of them won't happen. Obamacare is still a very big achievement for a president that was two years into his first term.

I honestly think it would have been much better off if the Republicans didn't barricade themselves and whine and whine and instead gave good input as to how it could be improved instead of their trying to save money for their corporate donors.

Had they worked togather on this healthcare which was gonna happen like any other advanced nation, we would be talking about how to improve our economy and bring our jobs back. I just can't stand it when people put political parties before national interest.




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[mzcool]

Had they worked togather on this healthcare which was gonna happen like any other advanced nation, we would be talking about how to improve our economy and bring our jobs back. I just can't stand it when people put political parties before national interest.




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Damn right. Instead we are going through mounds of political BS while people can't find jobs.

I'm going to go out on the limb here though, and I don't know if you agree or not, but I personally blame this more on one party on the other, because it's kind of hard to get things done when the other party think that it's only purpose is to try to make the president a one term president.

 

[rhp1462]

Damn right. Instead we are going through mounds of political BS while people can't find jobs.

I'm going to go out on the limb here though, and I don't know if you agree or not, but I personally blame this more on one party on the other, because it's kind of hard to get things done when the other party think that it's only purpose is to try to make the president a one term president.

You are entitled to your opinions. It just pisses me off when people can only see good on their political side. I blame both parties for not putting OUR interests first. Repubs didn't budge from beginning and started calling it socialist this and that. Dems didn't want to negotiate either. So they are both wrong in my opinion. Government shutdown was complete bullshit and wrong by republicans(this comes from somebody that has mostly voted republican). Thank god it did not last long, had it lasted long time , so many people(govt workers)would have lost their cars, house, and what not.


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[Luthier]

What? Whose booze are you paying for, where do you even take this crap out of? Social Security, welfare, all those programs were here before you came here, and will be here after you are long gone.

Who are you to barge in here, into this country, and generalize that everyone on government services is lazy. I don't know if you were on any government services or not when you came here (great for you if you weren't), but most people on welfare don't have enough money for basic expenses. You live in some fantasy world where welfare recipients live in mansions and buy booze instead of the food that keeps them from starving.

Its quite laughable actually. I know plenty of Russians, mainly from Brooklyn, they are staunch Republicans and yet their mothers are on SSI, and Medicare.

You can talk all the crap you want about welfare, but I know plenty of people who immigrated here (my parents being two of those people), were originally on govt assistance, and then made it out of poverty, and without govt assistance, it will be much harder for people to move up in life, and just continue a poverty cycle.

Really, I don't understand how you come to a country, one that welcomed you, and gave you the opportunity to be successful, and now you feel that you can deny the same opportunity to others. You come here and then you look down on people who were here before you were.

Taking care of other people is not voluntary. When you come here, you are agreeing to help people who aren't doing as well, and in exchange you get the same back if you find yourself in a bad situation. If you don't like that, there are plenty of other countries in the world. Selfishness is one of the worst qualities one can have.

Wire tapping, and collecting info, started under a Republican president, by the way (Patriot Act, 2002).

No, kid, I didn't have any of Gov't assistance programs, I came to US with 30$ in my pocket, and with zero English. I had 3 jobs, supporting my family, I slept 4-5 hours only, but I never asked for welfare or foodstamps. It never even came into my mind. So, everything I have now - I earned it, by my own hands, without any Gov't's help. And I didn't say, that EVERYONE on Gov't assistance is lazy. I don't know, in what village you live, but I live in second biggest city in US, and I've seen tons of lazy jerks, living on welfare FOR GENERATIONS. And I've seen by my own eyes, how people buy booze, using EBC cards. So, who da fak YOU are, to tell me, what is true, or what is bullshit? Oh, I forgot... You are just a 16 years old sucker, who never knew real life.

 

[rhp1462]

Guys. Let's keep this thread alive. Please please don't take this or make it personal.


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[mzcool]

No, kid, I didn't have any of Gov't assistance programs, I came to US with 30$ in my pocket, and with zero English. I had 3 jobs, supporting my family, I slept 4-5 hours only, but I never asked for welfare or foodstamps. It never even came into my mind. So, everything I have now - I earned it, by my own hands, without any Gov't's help. And I didn't say, that EVERYONE on Gov't assistance is lazy. I don't know, in what village you live, but I live in second biggest city in US, and I've seen tons of lazy jerks, living on welfare FOR GENERATIONS. And I've seen by my own eyes, how people buy booze, using EBC cards. So, who da fak YOU are, to tell me, what is true, or what is bullshit? Oh, I forgot... You are just a 16 years old sucker, who never knew real life.

Personal attack much? Very mature of you to resort to age attacks.

Its great that you had 3 jobs and worked hard. You had programs to help you, and you didn't take advantage of them, thats your right not to.

You generalized govt assistance recipients as lazy. There are lazy recipients, but for every lazy one there are 5 hardworking ones.

You are looking at this issue from one perspective. Yes, a large portion of LA is poor, and on govt assistance. That isn't just because of laziness. That is because it is almost impossible to get out of there, even if people wanted to get out of there. The school system in bad neighborhoods around the country is terrible. Bad schools lead to bad students. Bad students cannot get good jobs. Its kind of hard to prosper on a McDonalds salary.

So who am I?

I'm someone who is able to have a comfortable lifestyle because my parents and my brother, who was born in Russia were able to take advantage of what the government was offering. Their taxes are now allowing others to have that opportunity. I'm somebody who thinks that its completely wrong to deny others a chance to make it in life.

 

[trailboss99]

WTF did I say about personal attacks? Are my posts invisible or simply being ignored?

LAST WARNING!!!​

 

[wepiii]

Weipii, I completely agree with you that Healthcare.gov was mishandled. That is a result of bureaucratic bullshit.

My brother worked on the tech team for Obama 2012. In two years they created the same tech systems that gave Obama the edge over Romney.

My brother works at Amazon Web Services now. It is a huge company, with tons of bright people working there. Yet, they can't even get a government contract for something like healthcare.gov, even if they wanted to. It is incredibly complicated to bid and win bids for federal government work. Thats the reason why stuff like this happens, because the government's BS is blocking good companies from getting govt contracts and instead awards them to people who know how to take advantage of the bid system, but aren't really the most qualified.

That is exactly why I don't think healthcare should be handled by the government at all. The first thing people seem to assume when I voice my opposition to the ACA is that I am a cold hearted right wing nut job, and that just isn't a fair judgement. I do not think Obamacare is sustainable, and in my opinion the fact that we spent $254 million to a Canadian company on a website that doesn't function, only proves how inefficient the federal government is.

 

[rhp1462]

That is exactly why I don't think healthcare should be handled by the government at all. The first thing people seem to assume when I voice my opposition to the ACA is that I am a cold hearted right wing nut job, and that just isn't a fair judgement. I do not think Obamacare is sustainable, and in my opinion the fact that we spent $254 million to a Canadian company on a website that doesn't function, only proves how inefficient the federal government is.

That just shows our government's efficiency. Home of Silicon Valley yet we contract shit out to other countries. No wonder jobs are leaving America.


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[i_like_shiney_things]

It's interesting to see different opinions from people from various nationalities... it would be a shame if Trail had to close this thread.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and the right to express it... part of your constitution isn't it? Would be nicer if they could be expressed in a non personal manner


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[Focal]

Lol, any country without social health care is a third world country.

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[Spboudart]

Just as a sub note these are the countries that are considered to have a democratic socialist political system today... they also have the highest standard of living:
Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Finland, Iceland

Just thought those country had the highest level of suicide….

 

[i_like_shiney_things]

That I'd put down to the fact it's so dark for so long in the winter


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[rhp1462]

And it is colder than ************ there.


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[thedoover]

I havent read everything since my last post - just glossed over it. But from what I have read, it seems like all of our disagreements come down to how much of a role that government should play in solving the problems that we perceive to exist.

I believe that mostly, but not completely free markets provide what the people really want. Which is to say, that people say that they really want universal "free" (which really isnt free of course) health care, but when its time to pay the tax bill, or even support politicians who say they want to make this change, the majority of Americans probably wont support it now. Maybe after another 10-15 years of being told how important it is, the general public will begin to believe it is necessary. So instead, we have employers offering the majority of health insurance, and those who dont get it through employers buy it on their own. It leaves some people uncovered, but the ACA takes those same people and covers them but only by force of law/taxation. They have to have insurance, so they have to buy it.

I believe that the government should protect the nations interests, make sure the economy is stable to some extent, provide public education in some way (a free market voucher system would be the most competitive) and otherwise back off. Im not being 100% inclusive here, so dont say, old doov doesnt want your food inspected, or doesnt want highways to be built. Im talking about hot-button issues. Im truly a moderate republican. I think these open-carry guys are crazy, and I think its too late to just eradicate welfare or social security. But I dont see the need to expand the role of government further.

I also believe that you have the right to think what you want, and Ill talk to you about it like you are a human. If you dont insult me, I wont insult you. We've lost that as a world - I think due mostly due to the anonymity of the internet. But I can talk to any one of you and disagree and we can still not hate each other until you start calling me names. Thats both sides - I get that. But I dont want to hear about compassion and be equated to Hitler or fascists or something in the same statements.