fear, loathing and the slow death of the rep market.......

[coltrim]

What is going on with the market place.
Everyone is looking for accurate reps which don't need heavily modded. There aren't any swiss movements, DSN's quality control is heavily disputed, substandard pvds with dodgey crown guards, poor lume, ultimate 111hs soon falling apart, chronos that everyone knows are chronic, something as simple as a 183 cg that works seems to baffle just about everyone.........
Has there ever been a better time for someone to step up to the plate and deliver a quality product which actually works?
Every one of us is hankering after a finished watch without the litany of silly faults which even the best reps are saddles with.
The entire situation is so laughable that I'm starting to suspect that the rep market is just a huge tragedy of a mockery of a shambles of a conspiracy dreamt up by the gen makers to prove the quality and legitimacy of their business while simultaneously proving the utter farcical nature of ours.
What about a little ambition from our dealers?
What about forgetting about the cheap buck?
What about forgetting about 'OK' reps?
What about a new dawn of super reps which bravely face up to the needs and demands of we, the dispirited few, who long for a better future for our kids.
Many the good Lord help and protect us all!!
Damn is that the time or has my watch stopped?

 

[Dizzy]

welcome to the "black market" my friend. The people building these watches dont necessarily follow any sets of rules. They arnt governed by any authority and there isnt always honesty or quality control. Its sort of a 'free for all' unfortunately... like i always say "choose your dealer then choose your watch"

dizz

 

[coltrim]

i know all about the vagaries of the black market...............
i'm simply making the point that anyone looking at the rep market should be able to see that if someone was prepared to produce a 'super rep' then he or she would have the market cornered.
To hell with honesty, it's sound economic sense.

 

[Dizzy]

There are "super reps" out there and more and more coming out all the time. It seems like almost every new big rep announcement is basicly a super rep. times are changing and the counterfeiters are getting way more advanced.

A few recent 'super reps' (not perfect but pretty darn close)
Breitling Ultimate BCE (new version)
graham swordfish
graham chronofighter
Breitling SFSO ETA with double AR
Super sea-dweller
Hublot big bang ceramic with double AR

 

[R2D4]

It's always been like this at least as far back as I can remember. Heck remember those quartz day/date Fauxlex's made in Japan? They were great watches, you couldn't kill them. The crowns never got stripped and they cost like 10 bucks. As these factories gear up to replicate 1:1 they set a fast pace and never look back, good decision or bad, they move on to the next project. They got some dead on and others not so much. I hear you Coltrim and I too wish that the demand would slow down so they had time to perfect these, but reality and history dictates otherwise.

Cheers.

 

[frankt8242]

The good deals are out there....

You just need to do some homework, set a level of standards you are comfortable with, and spend some time looking at the member sales, and the dealers who offer the best "bang for the buck"...
Foe example: I never look for "perfection" in either my rep's or my women...Life is too short to emulate Don Quixote!!
A decent mineral crystal will yield more than adequate service on a rep watch you are not going to wear every day for 5 years!!(believe me...you WON'T!!)...Sapphire is wonderful, but not necessary for normal day to day wear..(Ask any Seiko owner)
A/R coating is nice, but IMNSFHO, NOT worth the cost....I can always turn my wrist a few degrees to defeat that dreaded glare!!... Great lume is nice too, but I cannot recall a single incident in the past 50years that would convince ME that I absolutely NEEDED to see what time it was at night and was unable to do so!!...I take my watches off at night...There are always at least 2 or 3 LED's around the room constantly telling me the time!!...
Swan Necks are unnecessary decorations, that do absolutely NOTHING to truly enhance the utility of a watch, and since the movement is not visible until you take the watch off, why bother...You'll NEVER convince a real pro, and everybody else either don't know or care WTF a Swan Neck even IS!!
Watch movements are made of bits of metal,...AFAIK, metal doesn't care about the "eye slant" of the guy(or gal) putting it together....Only their skill level ...."Swiss Made" is in most cases a marketing ploy...IMNSFHO, Seagull builds movements at least as good or better than ETA....Just look at the ST-25/30 inside a rep 090 Pam if you are skeptical !! And THAT watch sells for @ $100. US!!...
As an example of what can be had if you shop around, my last several rep watch buys were as follows:
A very nicely finished Asian Omega Bond GMT, (originally from Trusty) that was not functioning when the back was crewed down tight.. (because the second hand was hitting the crystal) Cost $45.00
A very nice blue face Asian SFSO on a bracelet, with 2 extra straps, $110.00
A VERY nice Asian movement Pam 036, in a case exactly like Dsn's, (without the $hitty CG issues!!), a nice flush canon pinion and a fat 2mm crown with one sided A/R..Cost $140.00
A pretty decent Pam 217 with an unmarked Asian movement...cost : traded for a watch that cost me $50.00
A superb Omega "Great white" Seamaster GMT with a verified ETA 2836-2 movement..Cost: Traded a watch that I "owned" for @ $125.00
A very nice Omega Constellation all S/S with a gold starburst dial with a verified ETA 2824-2 movement, complete with a spare bracelet, still in plastic for $129.00
A pair of Pam 090's, one white, one PVD, total: 185.00
A Franck Muller Vegas that needs some very minor attention,(the roulette function "is sticky") cost $80.00
There are deals out there...You just need to keep looking...
And.....A hearty welcome to our little "segment of hell"!! (repmania) :roll: :roll: :roll:

 

[cybee]

There are "super reps" out there and more and more coming out all the time. It seems like almost every new big rep announcement is basicly a super rep. times are changing and the counterfeiters are getting way more advanced.

Yes I agree...heck we even have working tourbillon reps now thanks to the unbranded ST 80 movements...I can't wait to see what's next.. Fear not.

 

[cdubs]

Someone is going to step up to the plate soon and make some really nice stuff just wait. The demand is there it will come

 

[hk45ca]

i already gave up and stopped buying reps. i bought my wife and i new gen rolex's because the rep manufactures can't even match the quality of invicta at 4-6 times the cost. there is no excuse for that. people can try to defend them all they want but it true and there is nothing anybody can say to change it. :?

 

[horologie_unitas]

there are several awesome reps out there, with swiss movements, i owned and own several. so far ....100% reliable.

i have a lot of fun with my Omegas, Panerais, Breitling. very good reps, very close....all working EXCELLENT and precise.

my opinion - and you dont have to share it: a hell lot of good watch for the money.

i have seen gen swiss made watches ( yeah right ) with a raw 6498 ....for 1500 $
.....so, i love my reps.

 

[fakemaster]

I didn't think they even had a loose set of rules.

 

[coltrim]

Alright there L-dizzle,
interesting list of damn near perfect super reps
i notice you don't have a pam on your list, why is such a relatively straightforward watch so difficult to get right.
Is it because it's a 'niche' market which does not have the potential of b'ling, omega or rolex?

 

[Klink]

To hell with honesty, it's sound economic sense.

What makes sound economic sense to a Chinese rep manufacturer is absolutely nothing

to do with what 'we' see as good sense..

they get it right, close to right, or not at all.. they take one step forward and then two back

we have our choices, or we do not..

very very simple, as was pointed out

it has always been that way..



Life is Good!

Klink

 

[vejaman]

Re: The good deals are out there....

Great lume is nice too, but I cannot recall a single incident in the past 50years that would convince ME that I absolutely NEEDED to see what time it was at night and was unable to do so!!...I take my watches off at night...There are always at least 2 or 3 LED's around the room constantly telling me the time!!...
:

One time when I wished I had great lume was at a cocktail party with two other guys wearing gen Omegas and me with my UPO. All had just come in from outside and after about half an hour I noticed the SMPs the other guys were wearing were still glowing like light sabers (even in a well lit room) and my lowly UPO had no sign of lume whatsoever. Maybe I was the only one that noticed, but needless to say my beloved UPO was covered by my sleeve for the rest of the party. I will be going for that Vac Lume job very soon!

 

[fakemaster]

:lol:

 

[Dizzy]

Alright there L-dizzle,
interesting list of damn near perfect super reps
i notice you don't have a pam on your list, why is such a relatively straightforward watch so difficult to get right.
Is it because it's a 'niche' market which does not have the potential of b'ling, omega or rolex?

Ok then... i would say the pam127 fiddy with decorated asian swan neck movement with saphire crystal. Thats a pretty much dead on rep and only $240!!

 

[fakemaster]

Since it's on my mind from another post. The 212 ain't bad at all.

 

[coltrim]

hey l-dizzle,
could you point me to a dealer?
i'm in the uk so modding watches doesn't seem to be an option- unless someone knows better.......?

 

[hooligan]

The problem with the Fiddy or any E/F/G series watch is that the dagger/swan neck "grafitti" decorated movements are very hard to come by at the moment. Swiss are probably gone forever, and there don't seem to be many Asian movements in that configuration to be had at the moment.

 

[deff23]

Lume story is kind of funny tho, you should have just recharged with teh camera phone light haha