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DSN 111h - THE best? cons? better alternatives?

mmg2

Active Member
8/2/07
217
12
18
Texas
So I've got the PAM fever in full swing now...

After a swiss 111h, 113, and 212 I've decided to go for a really nice 111h

Just so I know all the pro's and con's - I want to hear your reasons for *not* buying a DSN - or is it really the perfect 111h rep?

What about alternatives? Like Thumb Watch's modded 111h?

Anything you guys have to share please let me know. Thanks!
 

rogerwine

Renowned Member
10/7/06
600
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0
Beyond vintage Pams, I just do not trust DSN dials, even sandwich dials. That includes font, font placement, markers and numbers. Seems to me you can get better dials out there and still have the mods done and be better off. However it would be hard to beat DSN AR and Crystals. His 44mm case problems include, shorter watch band lugs and no cut-out on the wristband facing side to accomodate thicker straps. Also problems with watchband lug screw holes stripping the threads very quickly. He does provide very good CGs. Thumbs Watch Accesories up-grades and pricing are very competitive for the 111H and the 177.
Rogerwine
 

mans_7266

Known Member
26/12/06
140
0
0
Hi Roger, just looked at the 111h from Thumbs Watch...it does look nice indeed. Is the spacing between "L Swiss Made L" and the 6 marker fixed on his dial? I can't really tell from the pics...

rogerwine said:
Beyond vintage Pams, I just do not trust DSN dials, even sandwich dials. That includes font, font placement, markers and numbers. Seems to me you can get better dials out there and still have the mods done and be better off. However it would be hard to beat DSN AR and Crystals. His 44mm case problems include, shorter watch band lugs and no cut-out on the wristband facing side to accomodate thicker straps. Also problems with watchband lug screw holes stripping the threads very quickly. He does provide very good CGs. Thumbs Watch Accesories up-grades and pricing are very competitive for the 111H and the 177.
Rogerwine
 

pete2528ca

Renowned Member
14/1/07
962
7
18
I just ordered a 111H from thumbwa, and should have it late next week. I will post a full review and pictures when I get it. I tell you one thing though, He sure is a great person to deal with...awesome response time on PM's, and believe it or not he has got a sense of humour.

pietro
 

mmg2

Active Member
8/2/07
217
12
18
Texas
pete2528ca said:
I just ordered a 111H from thumbwa, and should have it late next week. I will post a full review and pictures when I get it. I tell you one thing though, He sure is a great person to deal with...awesome response time on PM's, and believe it or not he has got a sense of humour.

pietro

Thanks, looking forward to the review!

Its seems just as easy to get caught up in DSN fever as it is PAM fever :lol:

But want to make sure I'm getting the best thing out there for the $$.

Do you guys have any rec's besides DSN for the best sandwhich dial?
 

Aquaracer

Active Member
5/1/07
431
2
0
I completely disagree-

The Davidsen 111H compared to my Andrew/Josh/EL 111H is a different animal.

I guess if the only purpose of buying one of these watches is to compare digital photos of the dial- then maybe there are some inaccuracies.
The Davidsen watch feels right- the stainless feels more gen- I can't explain it but I have a gen 111G and 210H, and of my 4 Davidsen watches the 111H, Fiddy and 210 reps really have the gen feel.

Granted when viewed at extreme magnification there are some areas of the dial that are not perfect to the gen, but the dial material looks more like the gen- it's shinier on the other reps. Davidsen lume, the way he's doing it now- really looks right on the sandwhich dials. For whatever reason his watches seem to wind a little smoother, the crown FEELS better and the new crownguard really has the gen vibe. Also for whatever reason every one of my Davidsen watches keep near perfect time.

Again- not everything that makes a good rep comes across in photos- so if you're trying to post your rep as a gen on one of the gen forums- maybe a Davidsen is not for you. I am not trying to sell these on ebay or pass them off to a jeweler- just enjoy the look and style and maybe fool a few people!

I think they're very robust watches and when even acknowledging they're just reps- they feel like expensive watches. I've had my 111H and 210 Davidsen reps off and handed them to "Watch guys"- and they marvel at how nicely made they are- NEVER suspecting they're reps. Of course a dyed in the wool Paneristi is gonna bust any of these- but I think there are only 12 of them on the planet.

I had my 210 rep on last week when I got upgraded to first class on Lufthansa. (Which I highly recommend!) I had David make it with the same movement as the Fiddy- which of course is not accurate but I don't care. The guy right across the aisle from me had one of the White face Pams on his arm, a 115 I think, on an OEM Black Riva strap- He noticed my watch and we chatted for a few minutes- He popped his watch off and handed it to me- gen for sure, then he asked for my watch- Uh-Oh! I obliged- he compared the faces, the crown guards- flipped them over and compared my E series movement to his movement- he had the 111H style movment- moved them around in the light a little- Handed the watch back to me and then said "Wow- I really like that watch- I've got to get one of the Panerais with that beautiful movement! Could you tell me what the exact model number is so I can find one just like it??". Now of course I could have worn my gen 210 on the trip, but I like the fact that I can substitute my "copy" and not be embarassed in public. And I think when you wear them every day and people ogle them- the Davidsen watches are just a cut above Not all mind you- I know some of his sausage dials have gren lume which can look odd- but half of the time my painted dial 111G looks green- as the lume is charged throughout the day.

So it's hard to pay David now- but for me, worth it.
 

Secondbaseman12

Known Member
27/6/06
139
0
0
WOW great review, about davidsan pams. This helped me allot and I just transfered some money to my money bookers the 177 is soon myn :D

Niels
 

mans_7266

Known Member
26/12/06
140
0
0
@Secondbasman: until yesterday, as far as I know, no more MB for DSN unfortunately :cry: ...

Secondbaseman12 said:
WOW great review, about davidsan pams. This helped me allot and I just transfered some money to my money bookers the 177 is soon myn :D

Niels
 

Aquaracer

Active Member
5/1/07
431
2
0
Yeah that's the problem-

As of right now it looks like for us USA guys it's Wire Transfer only...Ouch.
 

trekracer20

Active Member
29/12/06
202
0
16
Aquaracer--you have some really good comments, and I'm anxious to hopefully hear from others who have luminor reps from both Davidsen and others and can compare how each looks and feels next to each other. Sometimes you just can't easily compare with photographs.

I've been thinking about getting a 111H lately, and have been looking hard at one from Trevor for about $220, and then getting the cannon pinion upgrade and redoing the lume on the dial and hands myself. But I'd love to hear from others about how the case and dial of most luminors look and feel different from Davidsens and from the gens. Davidsen is just so much more expensive than the rest, it's hard for me to justify.
 

Aquaracer

Active Member
5/1/07
431
2
0
Yeah I'm quite sure a different watch with the upgrades will be an awesome machine as well.

My experience for the most part is that the case/crystal/dial composition/crown and crown tube- the whole assembly feels more right on the DS watches- and for me offsets any small discrepancies in the dial font-

That said I did not care for his earlier 111H- mostly because the dial font was WAY off- thenewer version is tolerable- and the 210, 183 and Fiddy fonts were always OK.
 

Secondbaseman12

Known Member
27/6/06
139
0
0
Aquaracer said:
Yeah that's the problem-

As of right now it looks like for us USA guys it's Wire Transfer only...Ouch.


I am not from the usa, what other options do I have?

Niels
 

trekracer20

Active Member
29/12/06
202
0
16
Aquaracer, do you have any photos of your new 111H that you could share if it is DS's newest? A lot of times he will take photos from odd angles that make it difficult to see what the dial looks like.
 

Jake48

Renowned Member
17/3/06
545
3
18
Aquaracer said:
I completely disagree...
rogerwine said:
Beyond vintage Pams, I just do not trust DSN dials, even sandwich dials. That includes font, font placement, markers and numbers. Seems to me you can get better dials out there and still have the mods done and be better off. However it would be hard to beat DSN AR and Crystals. His 44mm case problems include, shorter watch band lugs and no cut-out on the wristband facing side to accomodate thicker straps. Also problems with watchband lug screw holes stripping the threads very quickly. He does provide very good CGs. Thumbs Watch Accesories up-grades and pricing are very competitive for the 111H and the 177.
Rogerwine

Two very good posts about Davidsen PAMS - I have purchased 6 PAM's from Davidsen and I have two more 111H's on the way as I write. I have also purchased more than 6 PAMS form Joshua.

After reading both posts carefully, I am not sure what you are "completely" disagreeing with Aquaracer. Rogerwine is exactlly right and I happen to agree 100% with you too. If you read both posts over, I think you will see that you are both right. It is just a look at Davidsen's PAM's from two different perspectives.

Out of the box, as they come, I would give Davidsen the nod, but with a little modding I think Josh's watch comes out a little better for me. I just wish I could find the Chinese dial maker who insists on putting the "L SWISS L" high and touching the 6 and have a chat with him. It seems with great precision he can put the "L SWISS L" in the exactly the wrong place on everysingle 111H dial Josh sells. You would think he could apply the same diligence to just lower the wording .25 mm!?!?!?
 

rogerwine

Renowned Member
10/7/06
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Look, I have a DSN 005 and 177 and I am not happy with either of them. Ones a sandwich dial and its just not cut deep enough. It looks like a sausage dial with skinny little numbers and markers. I also bought an 082 which I sent back. The 005 case is great, and I would expect that the 111h case is great, but the dial sucks and this is the final upgraded one, and this is what I have to look at all the time. I ran into a guy wearing a gen 177 in Memphis and I was so shocked at how different his 177 dial looked compared to mine, even my case looked wimpy. Luckily I was wearing my 187 and this guy loved it, but I had my 177 in my case and I kept sneaking looks at it and it just wouldn't pass muster. This why I went with Thumb watch for my 111h with all the upgrades including a 2mm crown and a new thicker CG for less money. And the superlume will be better. Versus what I was promised, both of these watches really piss me off! I am just not going to take a chance again.
Rogerwine
 

mumum

Renowned Member
18/1/07
557
103
43
How about the Pans from Ruby?
I too am in the same boat for my first Pan. It seems that she doent have the cannon pin issues and decent cg. And her feedback has been great. How does her Pans rank to Josha nd Dns?
 

mmg2

Active Member
8/2/07
217
12
18
Texas
A lot of good stuff in this thread - thanks for everyone's input. Seems there's no real consensus over the best 111h (is that stage two, after who has the best sub? :lol: )

I'd love to see pics of: DSN's new 111h dial (better pics than his sales section please!); Thumb-watch's 111h; Any other modified 111h's that you think take the cake
 

Aquaracer

Active Member
5/1/07
431
2
0
Roger-

Wow god story-

My experience is different.

I purchased my first Davidsen 111H when I owned a gen 111H- Obviously the dial font was really far off- But the dial texture and depth was very close to the gen- My Eddie Lee 111H had a shinier and thicker dial. Now I have a 111G Painted dial (gen) and 210H Gen- and the new Davidsen dial really looks OK. Having a couple of gens and some reps side by side on a daily basis is informative- I tend to treat the DS watches like gens- I put my better straps on them, and I'm not afraid to wear them in the company of knowledgeable people. Even my wife, when she finds one of the DS watches in the kitchen always says "You better put the "good stuff" away before it gets scratched"!! (assuming it's one of the gens)

I know youre pissed at Davidsen and that's Ok- but I do find his watches seem to wind more smoothly than the other reps I have- And for ME at least it's worth the couple of extra bucks.

Let me get my act together and I'll photograph the gens versus the reps versus teh Davidsens to show you what I mean.