Daytona movement confusion

[razor907]

Hello all, I have been doing quite a bit of research in preparation for a Daytona purchase. Thru my research, I thought I had it nailed down that the DD4130 movement was the preferred movement. I based this on the stickied post in this section titled "Comprehensive Guide to Clone Movements found in Rolex Reps".

I started correspondence with a TD & was quite surprised by the TD's reply to my inquiry.

Quoted below is my inquiry & the TD's response.

ME
"Hello,
Looking for a stainless Daytona with a DD4130 movement. Black or white dial & a black ceramic bezel, prefer a stainless bracelet but would be willing to entertain an Oysterflex."

TD's response
"Why do you want that movement in the watch?

And as far as the 4130 "clone" movement, that movement is a terrible movement. It is not a matter of if it will die, it is a matter of when. It's an unstable and expensive movement. My conjecture is that these watches are sealed. No one can see the movement. What can be seen is if it keeps good time, has a nice sweep, and is it reliable. And if you think an expert will open one of these watches and mistake a rep clone movement for the GEN movement, guess again. The copy movement will not fool any expert. I have tried the watches with those movements, and every single one I tried ended up dead pretty quickly. I had my repair guy look at them, and he cannot get the parts for them. There is no "standard" 4130 movement, and each different one takes different parts, so finding the parts is a guessing game."

This left me scratching my head & doing more research.

Looking for guidance on where I went wrong thinking the DD4130 was the best/better choice.

What say you?

 

[SS72]

IMO, you should not hold back on including the TD in this conversation. That provides them with an opportunity to explain their point of view objectively.

My immediate assumption is that the TD you communicated with cannot source the watch you want, hence their response. And that assumption is based on previous personal experiences.

I choose to trust the information provided in the DAYTONA section here, as it's a) impartial, and b) provided by technical SMEs who aren't salespeople/influencers.

Comprehensive Guide to Clone Movements Found in Rolex Reps

Change Log: August 25th 2022 - Initial version published on r/RepTime March 9th 2023 - Updated version published on RWI. Updated to include information about the new SH3285 found in C+ Factory GMTs and DD3285 found in Clean Factory GMTs. March 14th 2023 - Update to include a link to Steve's...

forum.replica-watch.info

If/when you choose a watch, I recommend you check the movement pics to confirm which movement it is, and then ask the TD to confirm that the movement advertised in said photo is THE actual movement in the watch you're looking at. If you buy a CF or BTF from a TD, is should contain the Dandong 4130 movement.

 

[Tompa]

You should change td dd4130 is one of the best. Reliable rep movment ever made

 

[razor907]

Thanks for the replies.

IMO, you should not hold back on including the TD in this conversation. That provides them with an opportunity to explain their point of view objectively.

My immediate assumption is that the TD you communicated with cannot source the watch you want, hence their response. And that assumption is based on previous personal experiences.

I choose to trust the information provided in the DAYTONA section here, as it's a) impartial, and b) provided by technical SMEs who aren't salespeople/influencers.

Comprehensive Guide to Clone Movements Found in Rolex Reps

Change Log: August 25th 2022 - Initial version published on r/RepTime March 9th 2023 - Updated version published on RWI. Updated to include information about the new SH3285 found in C+ Factory GMTs and DD3285 found in Clean Factory GMTs. March 14th 2023 - Update to include a link to Steve's...

forum.replica-watch.info

If/when you choose a watch, I recommend you check the movement pics to confirm which movement it is, and then ask the TD to confirm that the movement advertised in said photo is THE actual movement in the watch you're looking at. If you buy a CF or BTF from a TD, is should contain the Dandong 4130 movement.

I prefer not to get the TD involved at this stage. I may include the TD once I have a better understanding of their position. I have responded by asking for clarification & recommendations on the movement & why.

My first thought was also that TD could not source what I wanted.

I made my decision on movement based on the stickied thread you included in your reply.

What is meant by SMEs? I looked in the new member area at the "Terms & abbreviations" sticky.

Forum Terms & Abbreviations

So you’re new here. You wander around the forum and you see things like IMO that SOSF has me RMFAOL and you wonder what the hell are these guys talking about? Well here is a list of those terms to help you out. I’m sure I’ve missed a few but this will be a work in progress. 1:1: A false...

forum.replica-watch.info

You should change td dd4130 is one of the best. Reliable rep movment ever made

That is what my research had indicated.

Thanks again for the replies.

 

[Reaps]

Just ask for a Clean or BTF 116500.... dont ask for the runaround

The DD4130 is one of the best rep movements... all you need to do is some searching here...

Comparison between the gen 4130 movement and the clean 4130 movement

Greetings to all. We did a real and fake dismantling comparison between the gen 4130 movement and the clean 4130 movement. This movement has been in the market for many years, and it is one of the few Daytona chronograph movements that is known for its ultra-high stability. Of course, the price...

forum.replica-watch.info

 

[SS72]

^^^ this - Clean or BTF.
SME = Subject Matter Expert

 

[fatarms]

Who was this TD out of curiosity?

 

[guarda]

I've seen that people with lots of extra idle time are more prone to make the wrong choice. If you get anything other than Clean or BTF it's your own fault. Good luck

 

[razor907]

Thanks again for all the replies.

Just ask for a Clean or BTF 116500.... dont ask for the runaround

The DD4130 is one of the best rep movements... all you need to do is some searching here...

Comparison between the gen 4130 movement and the clean 4130 movement

Greetings to all. We did a real and fake dismantling comparison between the gen 4130 movement and the clean 4130 movement. This movement has been in the market for many years, and it is one of the few Daytona chronograph movements that is known for its ultra-high stability. Of course, the price...

forum.replica-watch.info

Thanks & that is Exactly where I decided on the DD4130.

^^^ this - Clean or BTF.
SME = Subject Matter Expert

Thanks for the clarification on the SME

Who was this TD out of curiosity?

I prefer not to call out anyone, but will say that I am in the States & because of the upcoming CNY, I contacted a TD that has watches stateside & offers to ship from Conus.

I have purchased from Ryan/InTime in the past, but due to the time of year, I thought I would try something different. Seems I will probably have to wait until after CNY & purchase from a different TD that can actually source watches, rather than sell what they have "in stock".

I've seen that people with lots of extra idle time are more prone to make the wrong choice. If you get anything other than Clean or BTF it's your own fault. Good luck

I work 70+ hours a week & don't plan on ordering anything other than Clean or BTF. Thanks for your input.

Thanks again for all the replies.

Trying to do my own research & NOT be the "whats the best sub" guy.













Thank you for that



As stated above this is where I decided on the DD4130

Comprehensive Guide to Clone Movements Found in Rolex Reps

Change Log: August 25th 2022 - Initial version published on r/RepTime March 9th 2023 - Updated version published on RWI. Updated to include information about the new SH3285 found in C+ Factory GMTs and DD3285 found in Clean Factory GMTs. March 14th 2023 - Update to include a link to Steve's...

forum.replica-watch.info

That lead me to want a Clean or

 

[guarda]

With either of the two you you can't go wrong. Be confident you are making the right choice. Cheers

 

[razor907]

With either of the two you you can't go wrong. Be confident you are making the right choice. Cheers

Thank you.

 

[Zeta7]

I think he’s gotta different perspective on this topic. Buyers get cherry picked reps and by the looks of some of the pics from TDs they get boxes of them. The TD hears about and has to deal with every rep that takes a shit on their customers. He does speak the truth about parts not being available for Dandong movements and that’s been my soapbox for a minute now. He’s also right about nobody seeing your movement. Of course he loses time and by extension money dealing with problematic reps so he’s gotta a vested interest in not wanting to sell problematic reps. He could have a higher profit margin with the 7750 but that’s the only reason I can think of for him to lie to you. I’d probably take his advice man but what do I know.

 

[haze3715]

I think he’s gotta different perspective on this topic. Buyers get cherry picked reps and by the looks of some of the pics from TDs they get boxes of them. The TD hears about and has to deal with every rep that takes a shit on their customers. He does speak the truth about parts not being available for Dandong movements and that’s been my soapbox for a minute now. He’s also right about nobody seeing your movement. Of course he loses time and by extension money dealing with problematic reps so he’s gotta a vested interest in not wanting to sell problematic reps. He could have a higher profit margin with the 7750 but that’s the only reason I can think of for him to lie to you. I’d probably take his advice man but what do I know.

Interesting perspective but we’re comparing the community’s experience from multiple batches from multiple dealers with vs one dealer's experience.

what’s the counter argument / alternative? buy an A7750 powered Daytona instead? If so, run don’t walk.

Thanks for the replies.



I prefer not to get the TD involved at this stage. I may include the TD once I have a better understanding of their position. I have responded by asking for clarification & recommendations on the movement & why.

My first thought was also that TD could not source what I wanted.

I made my decision on movement based on the stickied thread you included in your reply.

What is meant by SMEs? I looked in the new member area at the "Terms & abbreviations" sticky.

Forum Terms & Abbreviations

So you’re new here. You wander around the forum and you see things like IMO that SOSF has me RMFAOL and you wonder what the hell are these guys talking about? Well here is a list of those terms to help you out. I’m sure I’ve missed a few but this will be a work in progress. 1:1: A false...

forum.replica-watch.info

That is what my research had indicated.

Thanks again for the replies.

Is this a TD on RWI or a different forum / Reddit?

 

[razor907]

Is this a TD on RWI or a different forum / Reddit?

Here on RWI

My latest correspondence is quoted below

Me

"What movement do you recommend?

After much research, I chose that movement based on this stickied thread on RWI.

Comprehensive Guide to Clone Movements Found in Rolex Reps​

Change Log: August 25th 2022 - Initial version published on r/RepTime March 9th 2023 - Updated version published on RWI. Updated to include information about the new SH3285 found in C+ Factory GMTs and DD3285 found in Clean Factory GMTs. March 14th 2023 - Update to include a link to Steve's...

forum.replica-watch.info

The above-posted thread is quoted below

"Dandong 4130 (aka DD4130 or "Noob 4130")
This movement is also known as the Noob4130 / N4130 / Dandong 4130. They are all the same. This movement is one of the highest quality replica movements available. For a long time it was exclusively available to Noob Factory. When Noob was raided and shut down in 2021, this movement disappeared from the rep scene. However, in early 2022 Clean Factory (CF), and then Better Factory (BTF), and Q Factory (QF) started making Daytonas with this movement. Daytonas with this movement are more expensive than Daytonas with a 7750 movement. However, if you care about the reliability and longevity of your rep, go for the DD4130. It’s worth the extra cost.

The DD4130 movement is also compatible with genuine Rolex parts. It’s common to replace the balance-complete, and the chronograph seconds wheel to build a movement that is nearly indistinguishable from the genuine Rolex caliber 4130."

This is a different movement from the other 4130 clone movements, at least as I understand it.

I don't care about fooling someone who opens the case of the watch. I care about accurate functionality (i.e. the sub-dials do what they are supposed to do), longevity & ability to repair/mod in the future.

I plan to mod the watch at some time in the future & as I understand it, the DD4130 is the best for this as many Gen parts are interchangeable.

I have just recently started looking into Daytonas & by all means I only know what I can research here on RWI.

Please advise if what I have researched here on RWI is off-base or incorrect"

TD's response

"I do not go by this. I go by my experience. I have personally tried these watches and every single one I tried has failed. And my repair guy, who is from China and worked in those factories for decades cannot get the parts to repair them. He will not touch them, because he ends up ordering the parts and they do not fir correctly. Then he is out for the cost of the wrong parts and still cannot fix the watch. That is what I go by."

 

[Zeta7]

Interesting perspective but we’re comparing the community’s experience from multiple batches from multiple dealers with vs one dealer's experience.

what’s the counter argument / alternative? buy an A7750 powered Daytona instead? If so, run don’t walk.



Is this a TD on RWI or a different forum / Reddit?

I really don’t have a dog in this fight. However since I voiced my opinion I don’t mind explaining it.
TD’s cherry pick the watches the community get to “experience”. That’s part of the service they provide for their customers. That suggests that the community gets to “experience” only the very best watches from every TD. Your point of multiple batches from multiple TDs means absolutely nothing because the community is only getting the very best out of each batch and from every TD. The TD’s do this for their small fee and certainly so they don’t have to deal with unhappy customers. Whoever this particular TD is was doing the OP a solid. Granted the TD has reasons to persuade the customer away from problematic watches but that’s not a bad thing.
Just because someone doesn’t agree with what a TD tells him doesn’t mean he shouldn’t be trusted at least in my opinion. To suggest people should run from him is ridiculous. I think the OP should listen to what his TD is telling him. Otherwise what’s the point in using a TD? If the buyer knows more than the TD he should buy the watch and not ask for warranty protection when it fails.
What do you think is so wrong with 7750 movement anyway? Weren’t they the only movements available for Daytona reps until the Rolex clone movements came out several years ago. Aren’t they found in some of the more expensive watches out there nowadays? Just saying

 

[Storm.]

DD4130 Is the oldest and most reliable and also most tested clone movement we have available.

For any TD to say this is not good, he doesn't know his Line of work

Please share who said this.

 

[Karbon74]

I have a Sugess Tona homage with a 7750
watch is awesome and keeps time perfectly

but I avoid playing with the chrono. The reset is super iffy.

 

[razor907]

DD4130 Is the oldest and most reliable and also most tested clone movement we have available.

For any TD to say this is not good, he doesn't know his Line of work

Please share who said this.

WBK Time

 

[Storm.]

WBK Time.

Not to bash @WackoBirdKeeper but I'd rather not buy a 800$ replica from a guy who sells AAA+ watches

Try @CTime

 

[bhehe6813]

WBK Time

Yikes, a TD on here. I'm sure he has his reasons, but... Anyways, wrong TD for higher end reps. Like Storm said, its reliable and tested. Its almost objectively the best clone movement ever made for mass sale. WBK wants to sell you a 7750 which is literally a timebomb and is unserviceable, and shitting on the reliability of the 4130. Not a good look.

And to support my claims, go look at any on-site watchmaker/modder. Basically none of them offer 7750 services, they're unserviceable in the sense that absolutely no one wants to work on one. The ones that do will only do it for $300-400. If you look at any of the reliablity charts, any 7750 is all the way at the bottom of reliablity. Basically everything he said about the 4130 actually applies to the 7750 he's trying to sell you instead.