Clean fixed the muddy dial!

[KJ2020]

Here are two clean GMTs: the lefty has the clean crystal, and the Pepsi has the deep crystal. Do you notice how the font on the Pepsi looks a bit grayer? Any thoughts on why that might be, KJ? Do you think it could be due to the crystal, or maybe the dial itself? Ctime also sent me the old clean crystal with the gasket, so I'm considering reinstalling it to see if that fixes the issue, even if it means the date might be a bit more magnified with the original clean crystal.

This only really stood out to me when I took the gen out of the vault to snap the picture—but now it's driving me crazy!

I don't see a difference in font color but those pics aren't great for making this kind of comparison. Did you really mean font or are you talking about the white background?

A clear closeup of the date windows in similar light with no shadows is what's best to analyze this.

 

[duderino]

I don't see a difference in font color but those pics aren't great for making this kind of comparison. Did you really mean font or are you talking about the white background?

A clear closeup of the date windows in similar light with no shadows is what's best to analyze this.

I'm referring to the text "Rolex". I'll try to make a better image later!

 

[duderino]

I don't see a difference in font color but those pics aren't great for making this kind of comparison. Did you really mean font or are you talking about the white background?

A clear closeup of the date windows in similar light with no shadows is what's best to analyze this.

Capturing the difference on photograph proves to be much harder than anticipated.

You can see it a little bit in the image below. The lefty has more pronounced "Rolex" letters; they pop more, if you will. It's a crisper white and the font seems thicker. You can barely see it on the image, but when you hold the watches in your hand, it's quite visible.

 

[skittman]

I share your obeservation regarding the greyish text on clean v3s perpsi - and I had initially left clean crystal on the watch. Have a deep that was going to install at service... could this be dial printing flaw on v3s?

 

[KJ2020]

Capturing the difference on photograph proves to be much harder than anticipated.

You can see it a little bit in the image below. The lefty has more pronounced "Rolex" letters; they pop more, if you will. It's a crisper white and the font seems thicker. You can barely see it on the image, but when you hold the watches in your hand, it's quite visible.

Yes I see what you are talking about. That happens occasionally, I've seen it a few times. JF 16610 comes to mind, I've had others and ultimately the only real fix is to replace the dial.

 

[TonyMonatana44]

Here are two clean GMTs: the lefty has the clean crystal, and the Pepsi has the deep crystal. Do you notice how the font on the Pepsi looks a bit grayer? Any thoughts on why that might be, KJ? Do you think it could be due to the crystal, or maybe the dial itself? Ctime also sent me the old clean crystal with the gasket, so I'm considering reinstalling it to see if that fixes the issue, even if it means the date might be a bit more magnified with the original clean crystal.

This only really stood out to me when I took the gen out of the vault to snap the picture—but now it's driving me crazy!

Whats funny is that I noticed this on my Clean Sprite that I got about a week ago. I also told my TD to send me a "Deep" Xtal and I did the swap. At first I thought it was just the lighting inside my room was bad (since I did the swap at 4 AM). I then took pictures out in the sunlight the following morning and noticed that the dial looked "dull" as you've mentioned. I then swapped my Clean Xtal back in three days ago and boom, the dullness went away. I was told the Deeps make clearer glass than stock CF's, that the AR is better blah blah. I am finding that this isn't true and that the CF is better than the Deep in almost every way. The CF Xtals also come with somewhat correct beveled edges as the Gen's do. The Deep's come with a flatter edge.

I instantly ordered a Gen Xtal and will be doing the swap as I the dullness of the dial was driving me absolutely nuts.

PS, as KJ2020 mentioned, the xtals don't have much effect on the DW magnification. It's more so the AR that they put on the DW windows. Whether you have a CF or a Deep xtal, changing the gasket out to a lesser height will be the only thing that will effect the size. Unless you get a gen xtal obviously.

 

[TonyMonatana44]

Another note, the CF shines and bounces reflections around the same if not the same way the Deep xtal does. If you had a previous gen CF xtal i'd say the deep is worth it, but the new version CF xtals are as good as VSF's (not as good as the gen's but very close).

These are just merely my observations and opinions. When it comes to reps I am OCD as hell and care about the details. I have been studying the deep vs CF xtals for about 3-4 days now and I stand by what I said.

 

[Storm.]

Whats funny is that I noticed this on my Clean Sprite that I got about a week ago. I also told my TD to send me a "Deep" Xtal and I did the swap. At first I thought it was just the lighting inside my room was bad (since I did the swap at 4 AM). I then took pictures out in the sunlight the following morning and noticed that the dial looked "dull" as you've mentioned. I then swapped my Clean Xtal back in three days ago and boom, the dullness went away. I was told the Deeps make clearer glass than stock CF's, that the AR is better blah blah. I am finding that this isn't true and that the CF is better than the Deep in almost every way. The CF Xtals also come with somewhat correct beveled edges as the Gen's do. The Deep's come with a flatter edge.

I instantly ordered a Gen Xtal and will be doing the swap as I the dullness of the dial was driving me absolutely nuts.

PS, as KJ2020 mentioned, the xtals don't have much effect on the DW magnification. It's more so the AR that they put on the DW windows. Whether you have a CF or a Deep xtal, changing the gasket out to a lesser height will be the only thing that will effect the size. Unless you get a gen xtal obviously.

Deep is not gen spec considering AR as it has double AR.
Gen has only inside AR on GMT crystals.

Clean crystals have only inside AR as per gen spec.

That plaYs into a "sparkly" effect which disperses the light differently.

 

[TonyMonatana44]

Deep is not gen spec considering AR as it has double AR.
Gen has only inside AR on GMT crystals.

Clean crystals have only inside AR as per gen spec.

That plaYs into a "sparkly" effect which disperses the light differently.

Correct. I believe the AR coating Deep uses distorts the clarity of the glass, thus making the dial look "muddy" as the OP said or in more correct terms, washed out.

Maybe I just got a bad Deep Xtal but this shit has got to go. Can't wait to get my gen in the mail to swap over ASAP.

 

[Storm.]

Correct. I believe the AR coating Deep uses distorts the clarity of the glass, thus making the dial look "muddy" as the OP said or in more correct terms, washed out.

Maybe I just got a bad Deep Xtal but this shit has got to go. Can't wait to get my gen in the mail to swap over ASAP.

Yea deep quality has worsened over time, I agree.

 

[duderino]

They fix one thing only to break another—a common experience with rep factories. Honestly, I think I’d rather have the v3 than the v3s at this point. It’s also frustrating that the issue is hard to spot in photos, or I would never have approved it.

On that note, where’s the best place to buy a replacement dial, and should I specifically ask for a v3? I'm also looking for a technician who can handle the dial swap, but I noticed that this site doesn't provide a list of reliable technicians by location. I'm based in Europe—any recommendations for trustworthy watchmakers in the area?

What a bummer, ey. If the font had been like the older Cleans, this rep would have been perfect, seriously.

 

[TonyMonatana44]

They fix one thing only to break another—a common experience with rep factories. Honestly, I think I’d rather have the v3 than the v3s at this point. It’s also frustrating that the issue is hard to spot in photos, or I would never have approved it.

On that note, where’s the best place to buy a replacement dial, and should I specifically ask for a v3? I'm also looking for a technician who can handle the dial swap, but I noticed that this site doesn't provide a list of reliable technicians by location. I'm based in Europe—any recommendations for trustworthy watchmakers in the area?

What a bummer, ey. If the font had been like the older Cleans, this rep would have been perfect, seriously.

To be fair, Clean is the best GMT you can buy even if they fuck everything up on it. The movement is rock solid, and it's still very hard to differentiate a gen from a rep without a magnifying glass. Only thing that could throw it off is the glass and the mag window being too blown up.

I would just buy a gen crystal and all your problems should be solved with the dial. It'll "pop" a lot more and it'll be super clear.

If you're looking for a replacement dial, you can look out on the M2M sales page, or you can go gen if you're that worried about it being off. No matter what clean dial you buy that isn't 2+ years old at this point will be exactly the same.

Watchsmiths are everywhere. There are a bunch on RWI. You'll have to look for them though.

 

[TonyMonatana44]

Also - What happened to @storm Again

 

[duderino]

@KJ2020 I found a technician on reddit, called Noleex the modder, in Austria. He asks 120 euro to replace the dial. I'll ask ctime if they sell the older v3 dials separately, so we can replace the lighter font v3s dial. What do you think? Is there a specific dial I should ask for?

Thanks again for all the help you guys have given me so far. Truly amazing community! <3

 

[TonyMonatana44]

@KJ2020 I found a technician on reddit, called Noleex the modder, in Austria. He asks 120 euro to replace the dial. I'll ask ctime if they sell the older v3 dials separately, so we can replace the lighter font v3s dial. What do you think? Is there a specific dial I should ask for?

Thanks again for all the help you guys have given me so far. Truly amazing community! <3

I’ll let KJ do his thing and I’d suggest using his answer over mine, but anything before the V3 version would work. The dial print might’ve started to worsen after the updates of V2S.

I also just installed a Gen crystal in my V3 GMT and it’s a day and night difference in the dial popping. In my opinion just a crystal change is needed. I compared dial printers before and after a CF, Deep, and the Gen and it was visible in terms of clarify. But if you believe the issue is the actual dial, go for the dial.

 

[KJ2020]

@KJ2020 I found a technician on reddit, called Noleex the modder, in Austria. He asks 120 euro to replace the dial. I'll ask ctime if they sell the older v3 dials separately, so we can replace the lighter font v3s dial. What do you think? Is there a specific dial I should ask for?

Thanks again for all the help you guys have given me so far. Truly amazing community! <3

I would take a really close look at your dial without a crystal and try to determine if it is undesirable or if it just being ruined by a bad crystal. If you do decide to change the dial, you need to be very specific with your TD about what the issue is and what you can't accept as a replacement dial. I think @CTime will take proper care of you, they have no reason not to totally satisfy RWI customers. @CTime will have to get a dial from CLEAN so whether they have anything but the latest batch available is anyone's guess.

 

[duderino]

I would take a really close look at your dial without a crystal and try to determine if it is undesirable or if it just being ruined by a bad crystal. If you do decide to change the dial, you need to be very specific with your TD about what the issue is and what you can't accept as a replacement dial. I think @CTime will take proper care of you, they have no reason not to totally satisfy RWI customers. @CTime will have to get a dial from CLEAN so whether they have anything but the latest batch available is anyone's guess.

Yeah I contacted @CTime and they are truly amazing; they told me they would inquire with the factory right away, to see if there are batch errors and get back to me. Regardless, their service was great as usual.

I would love to compare the dials without crystal, but I have no idea how I would go about that. I'll see if I can find a technician in Amsterdam, since I'm here now, otherwise in Germany.

 

[Snooky]

addition:
Someone on reddit mentioned that this is a v3s flaw: they improved the bezel action, which explains why I was so surprised that the action was gen like on the pepsi, but screwed up the dial.

If this is true, my take is completely wrong and it has nothing to do with the crystal; the dial is the culprit.

I’ve noticed over the last two or so months that the font on Clean GMT dials have been slightly grey and dull looking (primarily Batmans/Batgirls and Pepsis). It’s very obvious when comparing to Clean dials from earlier in the year (and ARF), so it’s obviously a recent batch issue.

Clean have starting releasing Y2L6 serials in recent weeks, so I wonder if that is to try and differentiate between those with the dial issues on Y2L3. Though nothing is ever certain, and I still see L6V6 from time to time (which have the best dial and crystal IMHO).

 

[Orthopod]

The Clean hytrel however...

My clean bezel was a goopy mess, and the hytrel ring was the wrong
Size. The bezel would just pop off!! And what a mess underneath., more grey goop than I ever want to see again in a watch!