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Chicago Customs Seized/Confiscated
- Thread starter stxtf
- Start date
My PAM and Rollie coming in from Kuvarsit just got listed as inbound into customs in Chicago, I was hoping it would come in through NY. I guess its just a wait and see game now.
Keep your TD informed if they are not already monitoring it. Hope all goes well!
Specter1000
I'm Pretty Popular
I have been following my first time purchase with a TD and it hit Chicago ISC 15 March and cleared 18 March and is now out for delivery...there is hope!
I have a random question. so just curious... how does customs know what a rep is? I mean some of these are pretty damm hard to tell! I mean, I've actually fooled a few watch smiths. So how do these customs officers not know that someone ordered a gen PAM...(or insert fave rep here) and it happened to come from a seller in China???
Damn I think any watch from Guangzhou China is a dead giveaway they just don't have time to check ever watch box because I imagine lots of weird Homage and fantasy watches come over to. Maybe the boys in Chicago are just pissed or stealing or bored or new manager pushing for promotion.. they should be more worried about counterfeit prescription medicine packaged as vitamins and then repackaged here as god knows what!!!!
So do they have "Experts" that can differentiate between gens and reps??
Also, I have to send a watch back to get fixed at the factory -- I wonder if I remove the bracelet, if that will help at all? Just thinking of ways to not look like your average "watch in a box". What a waste of time having to think about this sh*t. [emoji57]
Also, I have to send a watch back to get fixed at the factory -- I wonder if I remove the bracelet, if that will help at all? Just thinking of ways to not look like your average "watch in a box". What a waste of time having to think about this sh*t. [emoji57]
From my post on the previous page, I think it's all about the packaging. Most all the homage and fantasy watches coming in in individual shipments will be in some sort of watch box with and outer box and paperwork. Also if it's a 500 USD watch, the seller is going to declare it for full value, because he can only insure up to declared value. So if they see a watch inside a box and a declaration of 500 USD, they are pretty sure it's not a rep. If it comes in as just a watch , no boxes, wrapped in bubble wrap soft mailing envelope and declared as "toy watch" declaration 20 USD, probably a rep. Also, if you are sitting looking at the scanner, after a few thousand packages, I would bet that if you have more than two interconnected brain cells, you are pretty good at picking out the suspicious packages. In fact, I would bet that as the packages come down the conveyor belt, the customs guys can pick out the suspicious packages even before they get scanned. Also if homage or fantasy watches get stopped and opened, if they aren't branded with any copyrighted trademarks, names , etc. they pass, not a rep, they are a homage.
AFA what you said about telling the difference between a gen PAM and a rep, no one is going to send a multi thousand dollar watch from one country to another declared as a "toy watch" valued at 20 bucks! At least I sure wouldn't. I have sold quite a few gen watches to buyers in several EU countries, and I make it very clear upfront in my sales post that it will be shipped insured and declared for it's full value. So essentially their premise is they don't know that it's a rep or gen, they know that no one is going to ship a 4k watch declared for 20 bucks. I believe that when they are seized, their aren't a bunch of watch experts looking at these watches through 10X loupes. If the watch, package and paperwork meet their criteria, they send a letter, knowing full well that 99.99% will throw the letter in the trash. If you happen to want to contest it, then, they would probably get and "expert" to determine it is indeed a rep, so you still lose. If by some fluke it is a gen, then I would expect the buyer/ owner to contest the seizure, and provided it's not a Rolex, they would win and get their watch. I doubt that this happens often though.
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I've just found a government page in which seizure notes can be searched.....for those of us waiting for a watch from TDs it may help to either tranquilize us or......well, here it goes..
http://www.forfeiture.gov/AdvancedNoticeSearch.aspx
http://www.forfeiture.gov/AdvancedNoticeSearch.aspx
Good News!! I just got a tracking update on my watch, arrived at central PO in my state, should be in my hands no later than Monday.
If I ever get a "letter" in the mail I will give it a try and contest it.
Also, what is a homage watch? One that looks like a Panerai but says Panini instead?
So would I get my Panini in the mail without a problem (extra cheese please)? I dont now how they are differentiating. I guess the most logical solution is what panerai153 wrote... the packaging. A $10,000 watch shipped uninsured and marked keychain would raise suspicion.
So for example if I ship a watch to China from USA for a value of $20 I have a few price options. The best two are:
-$50 Priority Mail Express (3-5 days)
-$14 First Class (10+ days)
If the same package has a value of $5,000 the best shipping method would be:
-$50 Priority Mail Express (3-5 days)
with no option for first class delivery.
I wonder if shipping FROM China to USA with an increased value for a slightly bigger shipping fee would be worth it or would be heavily scrutinized more?
Also, what is a homage watch? One that looks like a Panerai but says Panini instead?
So would I get my Panini in the mail without a problem (extra cheese please)? I dont now how they are differentiating. I guess the most logical solution is what panerai153 wrote... the packaging. A $10,000 watch shipped uninsured and marked keychain would raise suspicion.So for example if I ship a watch to China from USA for a value of $20 I have a few price options. The best two are:
-$50 Priority Mail Express (3-5 days)
-$14 First Class (10+ days)
If the same package has a value of $5,000 the best shipping method would be:
-$50 Priority Mail Express (3-5 days)
with no option for first class delivery.
I wonder if shipping FROM China to USA with an increased value for a slightly bigger shipping fee would be worth it or would be heavily scrutinized more?
If I ever get a "letter" in the mail I will give it a try and contest it.
Also, what is a homage watch? One that looks like a Panerai but says Panini instead?
So for example if I ship a watch to China from USA for a value of $20 I have a few price options. The best two are:
-$50 Priority Mail Express (3-5 days)
-$14 First Class (10+ days)
If the same package has a value of $5,000 the best shipping method would be:
-$50 Priority Mail Express (3-5 days)
with no option for first class delivery.
I wonder if shipping FROM China to USA with an increased value for a slightly bigger shipping fee would be worth it or would be heavily scrutinized more?
Those are very goods questions. AFA the homage watches, I would say that most of them do not Use the brand names in any form that may be misconstrued as the watch being a genuine. I know that several years ago, WatchUSeek outlawed the sale of any homage watches that used brand or trademarked names on the watch. One of the ones that brought this about was a company named Ken Trading that was selling the RXW watches that had Marina Militare on the dial and used and exact copy of the Panerai crown guard/lock. " Ken Trading Company, which makes the RXW line of watches and specifically the MM20, which was an homage to a watch OP (Officine Panerai) made in 1950. OP sued them and won and KTC had to cease production". Because of this, I would imagine Customs could seize a watch that had some trademark infringement, however realistically, I doubt seriously that they are that deep into differentiation between gen and homage based on a design or dial printing that is not the company name or logo. I believe that they are primarily looking at products that haver the company name imprinted in such a way as to be misleading, such as using Polex or Roolex as the name. But Oyster Perpetual on the dial would probably not raise any red flags, unless the brand name and logo or some derivative was present.
addressing your shipping options, If I were sending a 5k watch from USA to China or to or from the USA to anywhere, I would probably opt for a courier service such as FedEx, UPS or DHL. and I would probably opt for overnight or two day delivery, with full insurance. Problem with reps the shipping/insurance is going to cost half as much as the rep, you can't ship them by FedEx or UPS, because they scrutinize packages closer than the mail service. they all have their own in-house customs clearing, and it doesn't take 3-10 days to get packages through. They are fast but thorough. So that still leaves Express mail and Registered. Here is the other problem, let's say that you order a rep and you pay to have it shipped Express mail with a customs declaration of say 5K, If it get's seized, you will have paid for insurance that you can't claim, because if the USPS has insured it for 10X it's real value, it's declared a counterfeit with zero value they could come after you for fraud if you file a claim. One possible solution would be to up the declared value to the area where most homage watches are. that would be anywhere from 300-800 USD. That might drop the scrutiny level a bit, as it takes your package out of the 20 USD "toy watch" category.May work, may not!! I really don't think there are any easy solutions to the problem. As long as the dealers are willing to guarantee delivery, all we are risking is and increased anxiety level while the package is in transit. Should the dynamics change and some or all of the risks be shifted to the buyers, then that changes the whole picture. I'm not sure that the dealers would risk that step unless the seizure rate increases dramatically, as it would probably scare off a big percentage of buyers who are not willing to bear the risk.
I have one on the way from a TD that has been sitting in Chicago since the 6th. Super bummed as this is was my first rep purchase.
I don't think a package that's already in a U.S. city will be sent to another city just to be cleared by customs. I think you're home free and the package is on its way to your address, unless there's something I'm missing here....