Bitcoin Payment Tutorial

[Duckber]

If I’m not mistaken coinbase gives you a better conversion rate. Paying no fees is great but if they just rob you by the conversion rate it’s easy for them to not charge fees.

Coinbase is more expensive than Cashapp once all fees are accounted for.

 

[xartan]

Coinbase is more expensive than Cashapp once all fees are accounted for.

What if you factor in the conversion rate? Are you sure it’s cheaper then?

 

[Duckber]

What if you factor in the conversion rate? Are you sure it’s cheaper then?

Yes, it is still overall cheaper.

 

[Hazing]

I placed an order and used an outside currency conversion calculator to factor the amount of bitcoin. I paid that amount and then I noticed the new posts on this thread and posted that comment. About 10 minutes after I posted it, I got an email from the TD advising that the payment was like $12 short.

$10 of that was my fault because I erroneously paid 403 instead of 413. When I entered it into the conversion calculator, I accidentally entered in 403 And just made the payment for that amount. That’s one thing (I know so far) that I do not like about cashapp, (i don’t know if other apps are the same way) but there is nothing that allows you to see what you’re transferring in Usd. That is what caused me to overpay the first time I tried it and underpay the 2nd.

I ended up buying $440 in bitcoin for what was a $413 order. I have $17 and change remaining in bitcoin so there’s about $10 (and after the underpayment, I went heavy by a couple bucks on the 2nd transaction) in there that’s unaccounted for (fees, conversion, loss, spread - whatever). All in all, it’s was still less expensive than CC payments.

 

[Duckber]

I placed an order and used an outside currency conversion calculator to factor the amount of bitcoin. I paid that amount and then I noticed the new posts on this thread and posted that comment. About 10 minutes after I posted it, I got an email from the TD advising that the payment was like $12 short.

$10 of that was my fault because I erroneously paid 403 instead of 413. When I entered it into the conversion calculator, I accidentally entered in 403 And just made the payment for that amount. That’s one thing (I know so far) that I do not like about cashapp, (i don’t know if other apps are the same way) but there is nothing that allows you to see what you’re transferring in Usd. That is what caused me to overpay the first time I tried it and underpay the 2nd.

I ended up buying $440 in bitcoin for what was a $413 order. I have $17 and change remaining in bitcoin so there’s about $10 (and after the underpayment, I went heavy by a couple bucks on the 2nd transaction) in there that’s unaccounted for (fees, conversion, loss, spread - whatever). All in all, it’s was still less expensive than CC payments.

You do see what you're paying in USD.

You finalize the order, then you ask the TD how much that currency is in bitcoin currency format. Then you go buy bitcoin on the the app, and the amount of bitcoin the td asks for is usually 101.5% of the USD of your final order.

 

[Hazing]

You do see what you're paying in USD.

You finalize the order, then you ask the TD how much that currency is in bitcoin currency format. Then you go buy bitcoin on the the app, and the amount of bitcoin the td asks for is usually 101.5% of the USD of your final order.

That hasn’t been my experience so far. I’ve completed payments via bitcoin with two different dealers and they both gave me a USD$ amount to pay and a block chain address. Then I’ve had to buy BTC based on that dollar amount. I’m going to be sure to start asking for that now though.

Let me ask you this, so far I’ve bought x amount of dollars of bitcoin (let’s say $400 with of bitcoin) rather than x amount of bitcoin. if I were to ask the deal for total amount due in bitcoin instead of dollars, would I be able to buy that exact amount and use that exact amount for payment? Let’s say the dealer tells me the amount due is .04BTC, can I just buy that and use it to pay? Instead of trying to convert and round dollars to bitcoin? Rounding and having a few btc left over in cashapp?

 

[Duckber]

That hasn’t been my experience so far. I’ve completed payments via bitcoin with two different dealers and they both gave me a USD$ amount to pay and a block chain address. Then I’ve had to buy BTC based on that dollar amount. I’m going to be sure to start asking for that now though.

Let me ask you this, so far I’ve bought x amount of dollars of bitcoin (let’s say $400 with of bitcoin) rather than x amount of bitcoin. if I were to ask the deal for total amount due in bitcoin instead of dollars, would I be able to buy that exact amount and use that exact amount for payment? Let’s say the dealer tells me the amount due is .04BTC, can I just buy that and use it to pay? Instead of trying to convert and round dollars to bitcoin? Rounding and having a few btc left over in cashapp?

You said that hasn't been your experience so far, but it really should have been. I don't see how you can meet the TD's requirements accurately if you don't get told what they expect in bitcoin. Well, learning experience I guess. But yes that is definitely a huge part of paying a TD, asking them what they expect in bitcoin format, then comparing what they expect to a general currency converter to make sure what the TD asks align, then paying that on cashapp and the markup typically is 1 to 1.5%.

I am not sure I follow your second question, but if you ask for the total amount due in bitcoin and have that amount in bitcoin.... then I don't see what the issue is? It's just that you paid 1 to 1.5% over to get that bitcoin in the first place if using cashapp.

 

[Hazing]

Duckber yes it really should have been. And now knowing that is an option, it makes sense. That is something I will definitely be doing in all future transactions. I think the thing is, there’s no standard with bitcoin. My transactions have all been different. Even the bitcoin tutorial vids I pulled up on YouTube seemed to operate similarly to this way. “I owe you $100. You want to get paid in bitcoin? I’ll send you $100 in bitcoin - however many botcoin it may be.”

There was even another thread about bitcoin on rwi a few months ago (that I can’t find now) where I asked that very question - of bitcoin and denominations. Like “how is bitcoin broken down into denominations?. How do you know what/how much to send?” And was told to send the USD equivalent. That is “if someone wants $100 and accepts bitcoin, you send them $100 in bitcoin”. I think that is part of the problem, many people seem to think of it that way. This thread is the first I’m heard of it in terms of actual bitcoin denominations for invoicing and payment.

I’m glad this thread is here.

 

[Duckber]

Duckber yes it really should have been. And now knowing that is an option, it makes sense. That is something I will definitely be doing in all future transactions. I think the thing is, there’s no standard with bitcoin. My transactions have all been different. Even the bitcoin tutorial vids I pulled up on YouTube seemed to operate similarly to this way. “I owe you $100. You want to get paid in bitcoin? I’ll send you $100 in bitcoin - however many botcoin it may be.”

There was even another thread about bitcoin on rwi a few months ago (that I can’t find now) where I asked that very question - of bitcoin and denominations. Like “how is bitcoin broken down into denominations?. How do you know what/how much to send?” And was told to send the USD equivalent. That is “if someone wants $100 and accepts bitcoin, you send them $100 in bitcoin”. I think that is part of the problem, many people seem to think of it that way. This thread is the first I’m heard of it in terms of actual bitcoin denominations for invoicing and payment.

I’m glad this thread is here.

The amount of bitcoin you pay does change all the time but it doesn't mean you will pay more than 1 to 1.5% USD at ANY time of the year.

If the watch is 350 usd, and that equates to .004 bitcoin one time of the year, and 6 months later it is 1.5 bitcoin (for an extreme example) you would still pay 350 usd + 1% to 1.5% mark up at either point so it doesn't really matter.

 

[xartan]

SEAD has just told me to pay whatever the amount is i btc using the current btc conversion rate. He never gave me a number. I then went to bitcoin.com and looked up the number in btc and transferred that to him (rounded off). He also gives a discount for btc payments like many TDs.

I agree that getting an exact btc amount to transfer would be better though. It would rule out the chance of any misunderstandings. PT always charges a little more in btc than bitcoin.com would show. But they also give a discount for paying in btc IIRC.

Lately I've just been using transferwise to do bankwire, though. I find it more convenient and my TD also gives a discount for bankwire.

 

[Duckber]

SEAD has just told me to pay whatever the amount is i btc using the current btc conversion rate. He never gave me a number. I then went to bitcoin.com and looked up the number in btc and transferred that to him (rounded off). He also gives a discount for btc payments like many TDs.

I agree that getting an exact btc amount to transfer would be better though. It would rule out the chance of any misunderstandings. PT always charges a little more in btc than bitcoin.com would show. But they also give a discount for paying in btc IIRC.

Lately I've just been using transferwise to do bankwire, though. I find it more convenient and my TD also gives a discount for bankwire.

transferwise has no discounts for using from any TD I have spoken to, and banwiring fees pretty much add up to how much the discount was for using that method in the first place.

Bitcoin for me, for example with a -8% discount, has added fees of 1.2% on average so I'm getting a 6.8% discount overall while transferwire and bank wire either have none or even out in the end... bitcoin just wins.

 

[xartan]

transferwise has no discounts for using from any TD I have spoken to, and banwiring fees pretty much add up to how much the discount was for using that method in the first place.

Bitcoin for me, for example with a -8% discount, has added fees of 1.2% on average so I'm getting a 6.8% discount overall while transferwire and bank wire either have none or even out in the end... bitcoin just wins.

I don't know which TDs you deal with. Try JTime or SEAD they issue a transferwise discount like for btc. The fee is less than 1% using transferwise. So that's cheaper than btc when adding it all up. And much more convenient imo. But whatever rocks your boat.

 

[Duckber]

I don't know which TDs you deal with. Try JTime or SEAD they issue a transferwise discount like for btc. The fee is less than 1% using transferwise. So that's cheaper than btc when adding it all up. And much more convenient imo. But whatever rocks your boat.

Nope, not true.

The 8% discount for bitcoin outweighs the fees of transferwise for the same amount of payment use. Doing the math, the 3 watches I would order with transferwise over cashapp/bitcoin would be about 20 dollars more expensive.

 

[xartan]

Nope, not true.

The 8% discount for bitcoin outweighs the fees of transferwise for the same amount of payment use. Doing the math, the 3 watches I would order with transferwise over cashapp/bitcoin would be about 20 dollars more expensive.

I’m trying to tell you that the TDs I mention give you the same discount for transferwise as for btc. And you get sensible conversion rates in tw and less than 1% fees.

I’m not trying to make you drop btc. Just saying tw is just as cheap and more convenient imo.

btw. Last time I got a btc statement from PT it was about 5% more than the marketprice in usd.

 

[Duckber]

I’m trying to tell you that the TDs I mention give you the same discount for transferwise as for btc. And you get sensible conversion rates in tw and less than 1% fees.

I’m not trying to make you drop btc. Just saying tw is just as cheap and more convenient imo.

Nope, just did the math with my TD, transferwise is 1.6%. BTC is 1.2% -- the .4% is 20 dollars extra in my case. But transferwise, from USD TO YUAN in my case, is 1.6% across the board and .4% more. That .4% adds up.

 

[Hazing]

Duckber which dealer do you use? Who offers an 8% btc discount?

 

[Duckber]

Duckber which dealer do you use? Who offers an 8% btc discount?

PureTime

Also, to xartan , you were right about transferwise having a similar discount. I did not know that until I inquired about it. So that is true. But with both bitcoin (via cashapp) and transferwise having the same discount, the 1.6% fee on the transferwise is still .4% higher than the 1.2% on cashapp. The .4% is still a decent difference.

 

[xartan]

That's awesome if you can save a few bucks that way through cash app. In my experience at least PT is overpricing the btc amount, though. Last time it was about 5 % compared to the market price IIRC. And then there is the conversion loss for the bitcoin exchange. Unfortunately I cannot use cash app in my country so it may be cheaper than coinbase idk but I imagine they also make some money on their conversion rates.

I ended up buying from SEAD who let me do the conversion myself plus his triangle shipping is much cheaper than with PT. Bitcoin is not worth the hassle for me if I can avoid it and for me it's more expensive in the end. Bitcoin would be my second choice after transferwise, though.

 

[Hazing]

Last time I got a btc statement from PT it was about 5% more than the marketprice in usd.

Thats good to know and something to keep in mind on future purchases, I’m working on a purchase with them right now. I’m going to check out the rates and and determine which makes most sense. But I’m going to keep An eye on that.

What and how do do they usually do that? Bump up the prices or do they bump up the number of bitcoin they ask for?

 

[xartan]

Thats good to know and something to keep in mind on future purchases, I’m working on a purchase with them right now. I’m going to check out the rates and and determine which makes most sense. But I’m going to keep An eye on that.

What and how do do they usually do that? Bump up the prices or do they bump up the number of bitcoin they ask for?

I think they just wanna make sure they're covered. Bitcoin is volatile. They don't bump up the price. But depending on which index you look in the price will vary. They don't scam you. Don't worry about that.

TBH I'd choose JTime over PT but that's just my personal opinion. Lots of people like PT. Neither will scam you.