Awesome wines = Italian and French wines?

[JellyJoe]

Mod edit:

Please note that this debate was moved here from another thread. This topic was not started by JellyJoe. It's best to take this out of the sticky on personal wine recommendations, and continue it as a separate debate here.

-Roo

Is that a wine or soap? Pics or it never happened. On second thought if it's soap, I will take your word for it. :lol:

Thanks Guru!

erm... depending on year Barolo is one of the best red wines IN THE WORLD, Rob. Asti area northwest Italy.
I am surprised you don't know it >.>

When you have to admit it, you just have to. For example I am english, I love my land but honestly english cuisine simply sucks if it exists at all.
Sorry, no offense for anybody, australian (Shiraz is a good example, gallino, not bad), spanish, portuguese and even a few californian wines can be interesting at times, but it's more or less like supporting the italian national baseball team: you love it if you are italian, you are happily surprised it plays decently when it does, but you are aware that any average 3rd division team from USA would probably knock down the press stand with homeruns within the 3rd inning, playing against them.
It would be complicated and tedious to explain the many characteristics a wine should have, some wines are good on a few of them, but only on those.
It is very hard to have a wine being complete on all of them, I would call those wines awesome.
Awesome wines = Italian and French wines, period.
Barolo, Barbera, Nebbiolo, Grignolino from Asti area, Piemonte, Amarone from Verona, Brunello from Tuscany and many others.
French wines are great too, they have an awesome tradition specially from Bordeaux area.
Then, distanced, I'd mention Spain, Australia, Portugal. Far behind all the other nations.


:jellyg:

 

[guru]

+1 JJ

 

[rooster133]

Awesome wines = Italian and French wines, period.

That was once upon a time... Keep up with the times pollo! I probably have as many French and Italian wines in my top 10 (e.g., Mouton and Margaux) as I have new world wines... I used to think exactly like you, but countless blind tastings opened my eyes... Really, it's once you rip off those labels and start drinking and really tasting them that you'll be truly surprised.

After all, it makes sense... It might be the new world, but the soil is a few hundred millions years old, the grape varieties are the same and even more varied, but the soil in particular is amazingly varied compared to Italy and France. Margaret River, Barossa Valley, Coonwarra... You go from red clays to sandstones and limestones, and whatnot... Not to speak about whether conditions... And of course, the winemakers are incredibly skilled and in many cases share the same heritage of those of the new world.

Like I said, initially I didn't believe it either and would mostly collect and drink French and Italian wine... Now I buy all sorts (not to mention that some Aussie wines are hugely collectible - look up Grange Hermitage). Up to 40% of the wine I buy is Australian now.

On the other hand, if it's the brand and the "emotional" element you're focusing on, then I won't argue with you. It's like saying the Italians or the Japanese can make a watch that is just as good as the Swiss. You might be right, but I'm still going to buy only Swiss made. And indeed I still love old world wine and for my next list I'll share my French favourites... then my Italian...

 

[JellyJoe]

As I said, no offense for anybody, we are all friends with a common love for watches and apparently wine.
But affirming new world wines are as good as french and italian ones would be laughed at everywhere in the galaxy including new world (provided you don't ask a new world wine producer ).
You see, once upon a time it was impossible to reproduce complex systems involving water, soil, air, winds, roots, climate and agrume (citrus, latin, in english it doesnt even have a proper word) trees nearby exactly like it is today, bro. Maybe I (together with 99% of this planet) am wrong and water is basically the same everywhere. I know that might be right for diet Coke, but wine is a different story. And it's not a matter of personal opinions. The problem is that every little detail influences the process and almost none can be predicted (not to mention replication...), and infact everything changes even in a few weeks. That is why in different years the same wine can be good, better or great. Can you imagine how different it can go if you change the bloody continent ?!?
On a different scale it'd be like trying to produce good Red Cheddar or Colonnata lard on Venus, my friend. Through scientific experiments and over the decades, you might get to have decent edible food eventually, but calling it Cheddar and Colonnata lard would be silly, basically sci-fi lol.
I never said new world wines aren't good, I have been travellin worldwide for more than 20 years and having some now and then, but everytime I invested a bit more on them I ended up not being amazed. Now I live in Italy, so basically why should I spend 50 euros or more for imported Shiraz which are generally strong but average reds when I can buy an awesome Brunello di Montalcino (possibly simply the best red, thus the best wine on this side of the Milky Way) for almost the same price in Italy, avoiding transport, mispositioned bottles and bloody sulphites used for shipping? (unless you are out of vinegar, nonsense)
It would be like importing beer in Germany from Japan. Some japanese beer might even be good, but it wouldnt make any sense.
I drink new world wines at times when I am abroad just to bypass sulphites or as you'd watch an italian western movie and surprisingly find it a good film eventually, just for a change. But the real, best western movies are made in USA period, it's just something they know better and you have to accept that. All the rest can be a good imitation, an interesting remake. Or something totally new, but in that case don't call it a western, cos it refers to western US at the end of the 18th century. Just call it a good film with some guns or sumthng.
No watch made in china can compare to swiss watches, unless you bump into a rare exception, which is possible in theory but never the average truth.
As I said, australian wines can be good replicas of Merlots or Sangiovese based wines (base of 80% red wines) and alike, they might seem to have an attitude cos they are strong due to sunny weather, but almost always lack character and depth. Good for roast lamb or strong cheese, but they would abs destroy a delicate white truffle based dinner. It's something imitated from french and italian wines, sometimes very well but still an attempt to reproduce european conditions, grapes etc etc... and you can tell very often. Enologists are usually european (or european style, let's say, they use the same methods) so they have the knowledge, so are grapes in their origin, but all the rest is not. If you are lucky, you get a good new wine, but having very little in common with the real wine whose name it shares.
How would you react if a chinese claimed "we make better watches than the gens"?
It's theoretically possible, but could you restrain a giggle? Would you buy a chinese tourbillon for a swiss price? Do you like "parmesan"? Well sometimes it tastes decently, but it sucks compared to real italian Parmigiano cheese (called like that cos it'd produced in Parma's area) and overall it will never be 100%. And yet I am sure those producers claim it's just the same thing. But of course if you have never tried the real thing, you will think it's good stuff.
Say, Italy is not good at american football, that's a general statement. Of course there might be an exception for that, some unknown great quarterback somewhere, possible, but I wouldn't bet a used match on it.
Why? Cos it's a national sport/activity in USA, everybody does that, they are all averagely into it.
Well, in Italy and France making and drinking wine is a national sport, just like the All Blacks in Rugby. That is why they always win, and when they lose it's surprising.
Now, you can try and bring the right grapes and find a good similar soil somewhere else, but where will you find the same water, winds, same air, weather conditions, surrounding vegetation etc?
Some top notch italian wines have an arrogant aftertaste of liquorice or chinotto tree bark (can you even translate that lol? Not even an english word for that tree) giving the wine a unique depth. Abs impossible to reproduce, as countless other features. A common mistake is judging a wine good just cos it's strong. That's easy to achieve, all the rest is not. After all who in the world would have a top notch californian Merlot rather than a top notch french or italian one? They shouldn't even bear the same damn name if you ask me and infact in EU it's called "geographical indication", not "grape type" and it's a disposition by law. Something like "if you want to produce a wine bearing that name, you have to produce it here and nowhere else, because no other place can offer the infinite features present here".
Of course chinese replicas have gone incredibly better along the years, driving from abs crap to good or even great reps, and so have wines, but no replicas can be 1:1, it's a general rule we should all remember

Of course it's always nice to change and we are all different, so no argument about that.

:jellyg:

 

[d4m.test]

i agree with JJ,
everything is involved when producing wine and we know that in italy & france. in every region there are tonns of differents kind of wines just because of the clima and terrain.

in newzeland,australia,napa valley or south africa they of course produce some good wines but until now they haven't produced any wine that can be compared to the italian and french great wines.
yes in the last 20 years they improved a lot in making wines,and i hope they will grow an grow up in this art
but the way it's long and as jj said the prices of these wines are too high compared to the quality yet.



JJ the chinotto in english is called ''myrtle-leafed orange''

 

[hooligan]

Sorry, Joe, gotta disagree. California, Australia and South America are all making some really great wines that rival those of Italy and France. Just because they're the oldest doesn't make them the best.

 

[JellyJoe]

<--- Last word feticist.

I am right, everybody else is wrong.
Stop arguing guys, friendly talk here. >.>
Can we talk about wines without insulting or anything?...

:jellyg:

Gallino bro, that Baglio Soria "firriato" Nero D'Avola is a good sicilian wine (a bit over rated cos it has been in fashion a few years ago for a bit, you know how it goes, but good for the price).
But, if your best Brunello is exported Banfi I aint surprised you think Shiraz is great. Banfi is an average wine for tourists, half of it becomes grappa (no joke, half of their must for wines, half for grappa and its the same bloody must, you can imagine the quality). Try a Casanova Neri (Tenuta Alta) possibly 2001 and you will know about aftertaste
Interesting the Nobile Avignonesi, not a great wine, but in 2 of their lots (Poggetti and Selva) they have correggiolo olive trees (exquisite quality) and some rare Cinta Senese wondering about freely (best pigs, and yes, they do crap lol. And thats the best pig crap out there for wine )
Btw your Barolo is Alba, the fake one haha ol' nooby, Barolo is from Asti area, never indulge too much in wines from Cuneo province; good for price but hardly awesome. And for God's sake dont order Barbaresco from an importer in NY, to have it in UK. Try to find a direct link from Italy. There are countless things worth considering about wines, not only a name, and to blind taste wines you have to know them otherwise it's basically getting drunk (which I would happily do together with you having good wine or even cheap bourbon, Gallino my friend!!!)
Brunello of Montalcino, provided you buy the right one, is so deep, likely the best wine in the world. It's not me saying that. It has been stated by "Wine Spectator" an american magazine considered the most subtle of the new world in judging wine quality (wow new world wine experts, now we feel safe lol).
That for olympic games.
[Incidentally, the certification for US Brunello is now officially revoked Goodbye yankee Brunello lol, it was about time to. Name those wines Oregon Red Rocks or whatever you like ]
Ever heard of Gallo Winery from California? It has been called the greatest wine related sting in history. Well to make a long story short, Gallo Winery bought 16,000,000 bottles of precious Pinot of Languedoc Roussillon, an awesome Pinot Noir, from a french seller called Ducasse, for several million dollars and labeled it Red Bicyclette Pinot Noir. Even an amateur from Mars would have thought it was suspicious, you'd need a few more planets to produce all that Languedoc Pinot, that's not an enormous area. The pro tasters hired from Gallo Winery were overjoyed with quality and happily countersigned the order of 16,000,000 bottles of great Pinot and got 16,000,000 bottles of cheap Merlot and Cabernet. And the great "Wine Spectator" gave that wine 83/100 points hahaha nice experts. Of course they misteriously stopped praising that wine when all the matter came out. Embarassed silence would be the best comment, but you know... at least a giggle is due imo. :lol2:

You see guys, wine is overall the very base of a culture. This typical anglosaxon (I am english, so no barricades here, pls. I am criticizing my own people's average lack of humility and sometimes of knowledge including my own self) habit of organizing olympic games on everything is fun, but rather silly and at a certain rate annoying when it gets serious. We build a leaderboard, write down a few names, build the largest wine bottle in the world and think we have become wine experts. It is not like that, sorry we have to study and learn a lot like everybody else to know things. Sometimes more than everybody else, considering how good an anglosaxon is in making wine (ewww). And wine makes no exception.
What I mean is that there sure might be good wines here and there, but in France and Italy 90% of the wines are great (thousands of them), it's a deep national root, one of the things they are best at, the first I'd say. That's why the best wines in the world are there.
Believe me if Shiraz were called Conwarra Native Red or so I'd be ok with it, australian wines with oz features, not so deep, but still good. But when I see Australian Merlot I just think it's ridiculous (idiotic for 70-80$, I mean it). That is not Merlot, its a very expensive replica (like a Rolex franken for 5k$). For 80$ you can get an awesome wine in France or Italy, I appreciate it might not be easy in Australia or USA, they try to bypass long shipping and build their own business, that's ok. But if you live in EU and buy Auz or US wine for those prices... oh, well... some people like to be whipped lol, God bless freedom...
Since I moved to Italy many years ago I really changed my life on that respect. Believe me, I have been spending money on wine everywhere and in UK too, but here it's a different story. Export stuff sucks comparatively and whoever buys his wines on a website, sorry, knows very little about wine. Because wine is mostly bought in cellars here, directly from the wine makers and thats the best thing to do. Sometimes if you are lucky enough or got the hint you will find really awesome wines for 10-20 bucks a bottle too. But if you want the record, the "this is the top notch" feeling, go for some specific years: knowing which years for which wine/lot/producer is the key.
Just an example: I have been drinking good Merlots for decades. I was once having dinner in Bordeaux and decided to go for a good local Merlot just to taste the difference (the real Merlot comes from that area). Best Merlot I had in me bloody life. And it wasn't even so expensive. Would you say italian Merlot sucks? No, it's sometimes great but Merlot is a french wine, period. If you try to produce Brunello or Barbera in France on their great soil with their awesome knowledge you prolly get a good wine, but not great, not the real thing. And I am talking about a few hundred Km. Some grapes require several decades to fully estabilish and so on. Let's respect who is simply better than us at something.
Example: Brazil = soccer. Germany, Italy, France, Argentina and even UK (only at times *sigh*) can have their chances too. Maybe one day you'll find a good midfield from New Zealand, but would you say Kiwi soccer is great or even barely comparable?
Another example. In Italy a couple good beers are produced: Castello and Baffo D'oro. They are averagely nice and better than some commercial lagers you find in a supermarket, but would I miss them at the Oktoberfest? I bet I wouldn't. Wouldn't it be silly of me to ask for italian beer in Germany? They prolly have the best beer tradition in the damn world. And I am english lol, you bet I love beer.

Of course we are all free and nobody will stop me from claming that England is the best place in the world for tortellini and Beaujolais. Odd we still use an italian and a french word...

Anyway, wine is a pleasure guys, a good way to stay together and have a good time. Not another stupid reason to start a bloody war. Good tap-drinking everybody

JJ the chinotto in english is called ''myrtle-leafed orange''

haha I know mate, but as you can see its called myrtle-leafed orange. That definition is a composed descriptive expression to name something we simply don't have. That is what I meant.
For example an acorn from a great english oak is called an acorn, not a pig-nut...

Casillero Del Diablo is a very good wine, far deeper that its price. I tried a 2005 syrah RP and ended up buying a few bottles, it was not lacking character despite the fact it wasnt that aged. Interesting choice for very reasonable prices Guanaco, that wine is sometimes used by producers in USA to cut their wines.

Once again, sry for a long post and a bit of passion, but wine is something I know quite well, I was just trying to explain a few things.

 

[rooster133]

JJ - the pics were random google images of the wine variety. I don't have hours to search for pics of specific bottles. The only one I emphasised I like of a particular winemarker is Pio Cesare, which is my favourite Barolo. And there's nothing wrong with Alba (I find it oh so funny you consider it a fake barolo because it comes from 100 miles south of Asti... so no wonder you think the new world should just stick to surfing and cricket).

Next time I'll just take pics of my own bottles then, to avoid confusion. Will do it for my French list when I am back home in a couple of weeks.

But look, all this is useless dribble, because, my friend, the last time I checked this was a thread about personal preferences. This ongoing debate about who has the best sub (err, wine, sorry), and criticising someone's choices, are a bit off topic and unnecessary in a thread where people are proposing their own favourites. :beatahorse:

I don't know why wine discussion makes people so serious and eager to challenge other people's preferences... JJ, please... you have made your point very clear, and I'm sure a lot of people agree with you. Now focus less on other people's choices and give us your own! Sounds like you must have some very good tips and I'm really looking forward to hearing them.

 

[JellyJoe]

Pio Cesare, which is my favourite Barolo. And there's nothing wrong with Alba (I find it oh so funny you consider it a fake barolo because it comes from 100 miles south of Asti... (I find it oh so funny you consider it a fake barolo because it comes from 100 miles south of Asti... so no wonder you think the new world should just stick to surfing and cricket).

zzzzzz...
I just gave you a hint on a nicer one, if you want to keep on drinking Alba wines you are free to do it, but can I express an opinion freely? I dont see a reason for taking it personally, pls.

If Barolo from Alba is your favourite one, I might just assume it's the only one you tried, which wouldn't be something to be ashamed of. Let me take the piss, lol. I do it in a friendly way, good grief.
Alba is a lesser wine area, not the original one for Barolo and every amateur knows that (everyone but you I might add, but thats not a crime is it? we cant be all experts, let me take the piss for a sec, that's what the "nooby" part was lol, a damn joke with a friend. Is it so dramatic being a noob? I like noobs :biglaugh.
100 Km is not a short distance for hills, sometimes 100mt is enough to change everything, mate. About Alba it's not my opinion, it's how it is, Cuneo is an industrial area, if you think its funny just learn a bit more on the matter and you will see I am right. You just didnt know, did you? Whats so terrible about not knowing something? Now you know.
Banfi is a mid rated production and you placed it in your top ten hehe. Of course if u like Banfi and Alba wines best, enjoy them in good health, your top ten is yours not mine. Can I dare to bulsht about it, tho? Or should I apologize cos you might get mad? If that's that, I apologize sir lol, but you have a poor sense of humor, mate.
Jeez and I was the serious one...

I never said new world should stick to surfing and cricket, I have no idea why you say that, but at any rate, your words not mine.

But look, all this is useless dribble, because, my friend, the last time I checked this was a thread about personal preferences.This ongoing debate about who has the best sub (err, wine, sorry), and criticising someone's choices, are a bit off topic and unnecessary in a thread where people are proposing their own favourites.

Useless dribble... not so nice, thanks lol. I was giving hints on some of the wines being mentioned and on my fav wines including Tenuta Alta Brunello which is my personal preference, adding real knowledge and a funny story about the wine scam in USA. If you dont like that hint or dont even want to try a decent one, buy your 80$ Shiraz and be happy, I aint gonna chase you to tell you which wine you have to drink...
This is odd, I sense that what you would like to do atm is just shush me, hardly see why, except for a generic bad day you might be having.
Maybe you are just upset cos you felt the info I provided made you look silly or nooby. Dont take that personally lolz, I was discussing the topic (which I happen to know well), not the man...

I don't know why wine discussion makes people so serious and eager to challenge other people's preferences... JJ, please... you have made your point very clear, and I'm sure a lot of people agree with you. Now focus less on other people's choices and give us your own!

Once again, just stating my opinions. You should be a bit more tolerant.
Besides wine IS serious for some people, which doesnt mean it has to be such for you too, mate. Just respect other people's opinions pls. I aint eager to challenge anybody's preferences, I just expressed mine supporting them with good reasons and a certain amount of information. Thats just the way I am, I aint always like "I like strawberries, dont know why", sometimes I like to explain a bit more, add some cultural background, a scent of wisdom in the rare cases I can lol. If it was a yes-no thread, I misunderstood the point sorry. I thought it was about wine and thats what I talked about.

Sounds like you must have some very good tips and I'm really looking forward to hearing them.

Wow, now you asking for tips... What hit you today, bro?

I have made my point which is not offensive, you have made yours, but please unless I insulted somebody by accident (sry if I did, but cant see where), dont tell me what I can or cannot say, cos that would sound odd... >.>
Let's be as friendly as usual. I am from my side.
Maybe you are just in a grumpy mood today, gallino. No worries, I have good mood and great italian and french wine for both of us, you are welcome to come and share.

Let's hope we can keep a nice thread about wine clean, why all the bloody fuss? I dont get it.

Joe

:jellyg:

 

[rooster133]

JJ, I tried to say that in a friendly way... and the useless dribble referred to both sides of the debate, not just your own. It's hard to convey the tone of what I'm saying in plain text. Sorry you took offence. It wasn't meant to.

Also, I have no idea what gave you the impression that I was offended. You came into a thread about people sharing the wines they like. You started by insinuating that many of those personal recommendations were crap. I asked you to keep it on topic and respect other people's opinion. Then you decided that because I wasn't going with the obvious wine choices or disagreed with you I must be silly or a noob... This is all unnecessary in an opinion thread on a highly subjective topic (though I do understand you see it as an objective argument). I really don't think I'm the one having a bad day here...

Look, it's a silly argument and I have now separated and moved this stuff to a dedicated thread on this particular debate. I was just trying to keep it out of the original sticky on personal favourites.

Let me tell you a funny story though...

I once had this friend who knew everything about wine. He was an amateur, mind you, but he was extremely well educated about wine. He took courses, visited wineries, read all the books, tried them all, etc. He also had a funny habit of lecturing others in a patronising way, and trying to impress with wiki-trivia. Importantly, he subscribed to the view that fine wine only comes from Italy and France. We got into that debate a lot. One night I turn up with a shiraz he had never seen and he laughed at it because it was Australian. He proceeded to go down his cellar, looked high and low, and produced a beautiful French bottle. After he got the bottle and glasses ready, he prepared to taste the wine. Unbeknown to him though, I had switched the glasses... His glass now had my Aussie wine in it. He tasted the thing like it was liquid gold and then acted surprised. I thought I got busted, and was ready to rest my case. Instead he turns to me and says "oh man, this one's even better than I remembered it". I contemplated for a while whether I should say anything or not. It felt cruel. But then we got drunk and I just told him... and that debate has never come up again.

 

[rooster133]

French and Italian wines vs the rest of the world

I have taken this debate out of the fine wine thread, so we can carry on here...

So, let's hear it folks... Are French and Italian wines the only fine wines in the world?

 

[JellyJoe]

haha you moved my opinions from the original thread lol. I never started this crappy one tho, at least erase that senseless title XD
I am sorry you felt offended mate. I was just saying things all wine lovers know, broke your balls a bit in a friendly way, just for a laugh.
Anyway, no prob.

 

[Pix]

Just popping up for a few minutes
Sorry if off-topic.
Besides French and Italian wines, the Spanish ones belong to my favorites too.
Basically I like all (good) wines, provided they're red : Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, Chile and California. I drink them all, although it's difficult to find some of them in France sometimes. Fortunately I live close to the German boarder, which make the task easier : for some (unknown?) reasons, they have more choice.

And one of the poster is right, the older don't mean the best.
It depends on what you expect from a wine : you don't only drink a product, but also an history, a knowledge, some prestige.

Look at the watch industry : people prefer Swiss watches, whereas there are excellent German or French ones. Not mentionning very good Chinese ones

Same for garments : some pay a premium because of a brand, whereas a noname pair of jeans might be of the exact same quality.
Again, it really depends on what you expect : offer a French glass of Champagne to your wife (or woman or lover), offer her/him? an excellent italian sparkling wine. And look at the result

Besides there are technical issues : did you know that in France you're not allowed to water vineyards. Sounds stupid. But it makes the wine science a bit more complicated, therefore more looked for ? Also the "common" oak barrel taste is given... by oak barrels, whereas in some countries you're allowed for additives. Result is the same... But then again, it depends at what you're looking after when drinking wine.

 

[d4m.test]

Again, it really depends on what you expect : offer a French glass of Champagne to your wife (or woman or lover), offer her/him? an excellent italian sparkling wine. And look at the result

sorry about that,but depends wich sparkling italian wine,
you can't compare prosecco, spumante or champagne,they are 3 different kind of wines
prosecco is a special whine from the conegliano and valdobbiadene area.
the spumante comes from franciacorta (brescia area).
and the champagne comes from the champagne region.
other classical methods from other regions in france are called blanc the blancs or blanc the noirs (depends on the grapes).
and they all tastes totally different

they are all good choices,and the prices really change from one to the other one,bubbles IMHO it's just personal taste.
some one prefer champagne someothers prefer spumante...

but if you want to try a very nice prosecco i suggest you to try a bottle of BELLENDA
http://www.bellenda.it/en/prodotti/vini_bellenda/index.asp

San fermo prosecco brut
Miraval prosecco extra dry
Superiore di cartizze prosecco dry
and
S.C. prosecco brut

simply the best in quality/price

 

[rooster133]

you don't only drink a product, but also an history, a knowledge, some prestige.

Yes... and I would also go as far as arguing that wine can become a very personal thing too. There are very specific reasons why I like Sicilian Nero d'Avola. It's a beautiful wine... but also, whenever I drink it a whole lot of wonderful memories just hit me right in the face!

And I agree with you on the Spanish wines too... there are some amazing drops coming out of that country!

 

[d4m.test]

Rooster there is a nero d'avola that must be drunk cold,it is called fiammato,this could be intresting for you
cheers

 

[trailboss99]

Interesting??????
Oh JJ, come on mate. Just for starters ever heard of a little thing called Penfolds Grange? Just do a search for international gold medal winning Australian wine, you may be somewhat surprised.


Col.

 

[Pix]

@Naor : I do love italian wines and know quite a lot of them too, being half italian. It was not my intention to say Champagne = nice, italian sparkling = bad (I mentionned "excellent italian sparkling"). But to illustrate the "personal approach" (as Roo perfectly wrote it) and the "prestige factor", I believe Champagne is the reference worldwide, and is a name that talks to 99% of the population, which prosecco doesn't...
My region is known for its white wines (which I don't drink curiously), and has a "Crémant d'Alsace" which I consider as good as most Champagnes, for half the price : have you ever heard of it ? That's what I meant : prestige, not quality.
In the end, I would even tend to believe that snobishness is a key factor when choosing a wine

For lunch, today I drank an Australian Merlot (Cimarosa), bought for 3 EUR at Lidl in germany... I liked it a lot. But I doubt I would impress any girl with that (did not even had a cork :facepalm: )
Three days ago I was in Italy (close to Roma), drank a Dolce d'Alba (from Piemonte I believe) : I was absolutely stunned. Awesome wine I got served, but despite (a bit of) knowledge in wines, that was the first time I ever heard of this wine... Quality vs prestige.

 

[d4m.test]

@pix,maby i explained myself the wrong way,english is not my first language,
i retry.
what i wanted to say is not that champagne is better then the others,but just that these kind of bubbles are very different one from the other one and to choose the best it's all about the personal taste,
there are kinds of very good italian sparkling,kinds of very bad champagnes and vice versa,
people don't know so much about italian spaklings,
my aware saying ''depends wich italian sparkling wine'' was directed to that people,to invite them don't think that bubbles are just bubbles and all the italians are the same.

in the end i think we were talking about the same thing pix

hope to have been more clear this time,and sorry again,my english is not so good.

 

[Pix]

Understood
Sparkling is not always Coke :biglaugh: