Another stuck GMTII Bezel -- Removed, but I have a question

[freddy333]

As you can see, the bezel on this watch took some force to remove. & with the damage, I am hesitant to attempt to reassemble using the original bezel parts.

2 questions --
1 Has anyone dealt with this type of bezel & crystal retaining system on a rep before?
2 How to remove the wave crystal retaining ring &/or the retaining ring above it with the angled lip that looks like it locks below the bezel?



After finally figuring out how to deal with & succeeding in removing the bezel assembly from my 'clone' (separate thread), I agreed to take on a friend's 12 year old GMT rep (he thinks he got it from Andrew) -- the goal was to replace the existing bezel insert (with inaccurate fonts) with a ceramic insert (with accurate fonts). Sounded easy, so I agreed.

Unfortunately, without going into all the details, the bezel on his watch was far tougher to remove than mine was. Even after a week soaking in multiple types of penetrating oils, heating the case & going through 2 sets of steel bezel remover blades, it had to be literally pried off with 3 screw drivers! & of course with that much force, something was going to get bent -- the bezel, so now we need to replace the 'gold' bezel. Fortunately, I have a new crystal retaining ring, gasket & insert adhesive left over from my project that I can use for this 1. But the layout of his bezel assembly is very different from mine (this 1 has an angled spring in place of the nylon bezel gasket that my bezel had) & it almost looks like the wavy crystal retaining ring is part of the case & not meant to be removed. Plus, there is an additional ring above the wavy retaining ring with an angled lip that is likely where that angled spring locks onto. Anyone know if/how the 2 retaining rings can be removed & whether I can replace them with a wavy retaining ring & nylon gasket (leaving off the angled spring & upper retaining ring)?

 

[Cubatobaco]

That thing must have been a bastard to get off! This sounds like something @KJ2020 could possibly answer.

 

[freddy333]

Agreed. I thought there was a thread detailing a Sub bezel that was similar to this 1, but I have not been able to find it.

 

[Cubatobaco]

Agreed. I thought there was a thread detailing a Sub bezel that was similar to this 1, but I have not been able to find it.

Is this the one?

ROLEX 6-Digit Sub Bezel and Crystal Swap - DIY

As you can see, the gasket and the retaining ring stay fixed to the bezel when I pop it off. I don't feel that should happen? It's not abnormal for these parts to stay together during removal. However they need to be separated before reinstalling. I address this specifically in my tutorial post...

forum.replica-watch.info

 

[freddy333]

Is this the one?

ROLEX 6-Digit Sub Bezel and Crystal Swap - DIY

As you can see, the gasket and the retaining ring stay fixed to the bezel when I pop it off. I don't feel that should happen? It's not abnormal for these parts to stay together during removal. However they need to be separated before reinstalling. I address this specifically in my tutorial post...

forum.replica-watch.info

I think that is the thread, but none of those retaining rings look exactly like what I have here. For illustration, here is 1 of KJ2020's retaining ring pics -- containing the parts that look closest to what I have here -- superimposed over my pic


& the retaining rings on this watch almost look like they are part of the case & not intended to be removed. I do not see any space beneath or between them to slide any type of blade or knife in. That is what is confusing?

 

[Cubatobaco]

You're right. I'm not experienced in the older GMT or Sub models. I will be getting acquainted with them soon as I am waiting on parts for a 6538. That will be my introduction.

Keep at it. You'll figure it out. I'm sure someone will chime in soon.

 

[KJ2020]

Take a look at the linked post in the thread below. Many 5 digit reps still use the wire clip to lock a bezel in place, but it once was common for 6 digit reps too. Read the whole thread if interested, it's a similar 6 digit rep.

How to remove a bezel attached by a wire clip

@freddy333 Your retaining ring is part of the case - not removable.

 

[freddy333]

@freddy333 Your retaining ring is part of the case - not removable.

KJ2020 -- much obliged -- again!

The link is helpful, but your last line is salient & seems to support what I am seeing. Between that & the damage that occurred as a result of the bezel extrication, it may not be worth the work to repair the rough bits, source a new 'gold' bezel & try to reassemble it all in a way that it will work (& disassemble) properly. I will have to discuss options with the owner.

Thank you (all) again!

 

[KJ2020]

KJ2020 -- much obliged -- again!

The link is helpful, but your last line is salient & seems to support what I am seeing. Between that & the damage that occurred as a result of the bezel extrication, it may not be worth the work to repair the rough bits, source a new 'gold' bezel & try to reassemble it all in a way that it will work (& disassemble) properly. I will have to discuss options with the owner.

Thank you (all) again!

You might try "unbending" the bezel. I've done it successfully several times including on a gen 16710 bezel.

Using a dense board (about 1.5" x 12"), place a bent arc of the bezel over a short board edge. With a large rubber mallet, pound the bent arc back to level. Most bezels are pretty strong and can take quite a pounding, though I've had some that are not so take it slowly at first.

I typically just hold the bezel (and the board) under my gloved thumb and wrist while pounding it but the items can also be clamped to a bench if needed. Clamping the board and hand holding the bezel can make things easier too.

A vice can also be useful in straightening a bezel. Sandwiching it between two dense boards can help return its shape. Once the vice jaws are as tight as I can make them by hand, I beat on the handle with a 4 lb. sledgehammer to tighten them that last little bit.

Keep a perfectly level object nearby to gauge progress. A piece of glass, tile, small mirror etc. It is usually possible to make a bezel look OK and work again. The small nicks and gouges in the bezel underside and the retaining ring lip can be easily sanded smoother. This should at least be done on the retaining ring lip to ensure smoother rotation.

If the bezel gets close to flat but not quite there and some noticeable gaps remain, the bezel can be adhered to the case. I've done this about a dozen times for various reasons. In an instance where there are gaps, I use epoxy and clamp it tightly for at least 24 hours. Sometimes I leave it for days and work on another project. Clamping in a vise can reduce gaps to being unnoticeable.

I adhered the bezel below because it was a tiny bit too large for the case. The bezel is from an AliX cheapie but I love the concept and have two Batmans so I wanted to do it. The bezel was lapped flat underneath as it had really deep teeth that fit far into its original case. Then I had to slightly bevel the underside at 14 15 16 due to interference with the crown. Not much need to rotate this bezel anyway.

 

[oldtools]

Is it possible to machine the outside of the rehaut to accept a gen style crystal gasket and retainer?

 

[KJ2020]

Is it possible to machine the outside of the rehaut to accept a gen style crystal gasket and retainer?

Sure that might be possible. All the material left of the white line would have to removed. What remains would have to fit a gen-spec gasket interior snugly. Ofc a lathe would be ideal though I've done some creative machining with a Dremel on dies and movement holders, etc.

One other concern is that the gasket step on these models is inside the rehaut so the top of the rehaut would need shaving down to the bottom of that (usually very short) gasket recess step. This might affect things like date mag and hands-to-crystal clearance but using an assortment of gaskets you can usually find an acceptable combination.

 

[freddy333]

Is it possible to machine the outside of the rehaut to accept a gen style crystal gasket and retainer?

I have done that before (you may be able to find the link I posted here to my 1st 6542 project on RWG, which detailed this), but that was done at a time when the only way to get a non-gen 6542 was to craft all of the parts yourself, which is what we did. In this case, there are plenty of 116713LN reps around & this 1 is not mine anyway.

However, I told the owner that if he is willing to spend the time & effort to file & sand all of the rough/damaged bits to smoothness, I would be willing to see if we can reassemble it with a crystal gasket in place of the angled spring.

KJ2020 -- Like minds. I unbent the bezel last night. Here is a test fitting with the bezel & click stop spring (no crystal gasket -- just testing for smooth clicking) -- the assembly is now clicking along smoothly & relatively evenly --

 

[Cubatobaco]

I have done that before (you may be able to find the link I posted here to my 1st 6542 project on RWG, which detailed this), but that was done at a time when the only way to get a non-gen 6542 was to craft all of the parts yourself, which is what we did. In this case, there are plenty of 116713LN reps around & this 1 is not mine anyway.

However, I told the owner that if he is willing to spend the time & effort to file & sand all of the rough/damaged bits to smoothness, I would be willing to see if we can reassemble it with a crystal gasket in place of the angled spring.

KJ2020 -- Like minds. I unbent the bezel last night. Here is a test fitting with the bezel & click stop spring (no crystal gasket -- just testing for smooth clicking) -- the assembly is now clicking along smoothly & relatively evenly --

Great job!

Love all the teamwork, especially @KJ2020’s willingness to type out so much to help anyone who comes calling.

 

[Dave2302]

I had this issue with a YM !! all gold ....

Watch was fixed with no damage at all by me, who is a pretty amatuer watch fiddler with sossidge fingers
Start at post #14, then #31, #34 and #38 (to save you reading all the crap), refers to the actual job.

I need a bit of help (lol yeah yeah I know)

I recently bought a replica all gold YM II from a local mate who is into watches. Brand new and unworn, it's not the best AAAAAAAAAAAAAA++++++++++++ but nowhere near a DHG shitter either, I would describe it as a Mid Tier Rep. I got it very cheap because he bought it and upon arrival it had a...

forum.replica-watch.info

I would not hesitate to use this procudure again on any that are tighter than reasonable force on the bezel press

HTH

 

[freddy333]

I had this issue with a YM !! all gold ....
Watch was fixed with no damage at all by me, who is a pretty amatuer watch fiddler with sossidge fingers
Start at post #14, then #31, #34 and #38 (to save you reading all the crap), refers to the actual job.
I would not hesitate to use this procudure again on any that are tighter than reasonable force on the bezel press

Thanks, but for anyone finding this in the future, is your case configured exactly as the 1 I am working with? You did not mention that. If not, then your procedure would probably not work. I will add that the amount of force that was ultimately required to remove the bezel on this watch indicates that no solvent remover (& I tried a few myself before posting here) would have had any effect.

 

[KJ2020]

Thanks, but for anyone finding this in the future, is your case configured exactly as the 1 I am working with? You did not mention that. If not, then your procedure would probably not work. I will add that the amount of force that was ultimately required to remove the bezel on this watch indicates that no solvent remover (& I tried a few myself before posting here) would have had any effect.

His cheapie YM II does have similar construction to yours. The golf tape dissolver used in the thread was just to get the insert off. At that point the wire circlip becomes both visible (so you know what you're dealing with and how not to proceed) and accessible to remove using other means with standard tools (strong tweezers, skinny vise grips, etc.)

 

[Dave2302]

His cheapie YM II does have similar construction to yours. The golf tape dissolver used in the thread was just to get the insert off. At that point the wire circlip becomes both visible (so you know what you're dealing with and how not to proceed) and accessible to remove using other means with standard tools (strong tweezers, skinny vise grips, etc.)

/\ /\ /\ Thanks @KJ2020

is your case configured exactly as the 1 I am working with? You did not mention that. If not, then your procedure would probably not work. I will add that the amount of force that was ultimately required to remove the bezel on this watch indicates that no solvent remover (& I tried a few myself before posting here) would have had any effect.

The Case / Bezel is configured the same way otherwise I wouldn't of posted here.

As KJ correctly says, the solvent is used to get the Bezel Insert off, then there is a small gap between Crystal and Bezel from which you can carefully remove the wavy spring ring allowing the Bezel to be free.

Like I said, no damage that way.

I may not be an expert watchmaker but as I am an engineer I do know when the force required is getting to the point it will cause damage. The fact that there is no scratches on the gold plate or owt else is a testament to that

HTH

 

[KJ2020]

In fairness to @freddy333 here, his GMT bezel had so little gap between the bezel and the built in crystal retaining ring that you couldn't even see the wire circlip.

I've had some like this, I had to drive a small screwdriver into the gap on the one below just to get access to it. On another one I couldn't get to it at all and ended up brute forcing it off as well.

This made me wonder how the factory gets these on in the first place and led to my discovery of a reinstallation technique that I've used ever since when the gap is tight. I tape the wire clip inside the bezel groove with bracelet tape, then you can easily just set it in place over the retaining ring. Then cut the tape and pull it away.

As a side note, I recently had to dissolve another broken stem out of its crown plunger using an Alum powder solution. This is something I've done in the past and while it works well, it does take 4 or 5 days of soaking. A daily scraping away of debris from the softened end helps speed things along. Ultimately all of the metal stem dissolves.

But it made me wonder if this Alum solution would work on a wire clip. The solution causes a dull graying of the crown, but it polishes away easily. So I don't think it would hurt a bezel or a case. It doesn't eat into SS, and a circlip isn't SS. It's perfect for the broken stem scenario - it eats the stem and not the crown. Maybe it would eat a circlip too.

These wire clips are sold on AliExpress, I've seen them. Might be worth a try.

 

[freddy333]

Case Closed.

After a bit of testing, I decided to use an old Omega SMP bezel retainer spring I got from Ofrei many years ago to affix the GMT's bezel. The SMP spring is a slightly larger gage & I had to clip off about 20% of its length for proper fit within the GMTII's bezel channel, but it went on without issue -- & can be removed (with a standard bezel remover) as it should without issue. For anyone running into this issue in the future, the SMP spring is THE way to go.

Again, my sincere thanks to Dave2302, KJ2020 & all who contributed their masterful knowledge in helping me complete this project.