ANGELUS MOVEMENTS...anybody interested ??

[horologie_unitas]

yeah..... REP IT !!! REP IT !!

 

[CISO1969]

Enzo:

I do feel your pain. In a completely unrelated thread regarding how a member had created enough of a stir to cause me grief in getting an answer at RWG, I did reference the bs that "the angelus guys" have to put up with. I do understand what you are saying about sharing how to ID the right movements, but would it be self-defeating to contribute (with some of the others who do this) to a standing FAQ on how these fit into a watch or hints of some kind? My thought process is that it's sharing info and will actually cut down on the "how to" PM's?

Personally, I am curious as to why it is so hard if it was a standing movement in these watches way back when. I am curious as to why they aren't a drop in and it will work movement I would never pay $2k for one myself or even half or 3/4 that.

Just a thought.

CISO

 

[skcheng]

Any information that could be helpful to someone wanting to put together their own Angelus project seems to be the big secret here and on other boards.

I have heard this complaint more than once, if you read my e-mail, if would give you a headache. In the light of the PAM203 auction for 1 mill should clue everyone in, that the ANGELUS movement is a rarity. More and more people want it and there aren't any more to be had. The pool is finite. Everyone that comes up for sale is a scramble.

In the past year THIS community and the paneristi have caused even more of an effect. We can blame PANERAI initially for issuing the PAM203 and showing us 150 NOS movements to lust after. An invitation only group of buyers were graced with these ... it only fed the flames.

One year ago, the average High price on a 'correct' movement clock was $300. My best auction was $67 but those days are just not here anymore. Interest, demand has inflated the price of auctions.

When I was buying movements, I had people watching my every move, I had one member here turn into a stalker, another bought a movement from me and then posted and spread the rumour I charged 4X the price I sold it to him - he is now one of the "authorities" that still posts on rep boards.

These are your friends that are sharing and having fun ...

Prior to DEC 2006 the prices on ANGELUS skyrocketed due to all the strain. As an example here are some recent ebay auction ends, the last two were crap movements and are worth maybe $20 if they are in good nick, (just like the ones posted above, which are not and good for the purpose people want them and you OFTEN find people selling them with misrepresentation on ebay, they promote the misinformation that they are ANGELUS and imply they are useful. Look at the movemements above, YOU CAN'T MAKE A WATCH out of them ...

RECENT AUCTIONS:


Angelus Naveo 8 Day 4 Function Travel Companion $689.00 Ended (this clock was broken and commanded $700!)

RARE ANGELUS NAVEO, 8-DAY, 5 DIAL, WEATHER STATION, $2,827.77 Ended (This has become commonplace as the going price and this was a bloody BACKWINDER!)

The price is so inflated that now even the WRONG movements are selling for 10X the price that they sold for 1 year ago.

Tiny Angelus Alarm Clock 17 Jewels Swiss $281.55 Ended

Shelf/Mantel Clock 15 Jewels by Angelus (Swiss) c. 1960 $350.55 Ended

So when people ask me how to spot a correct auction, I decline. I am not happy that I have to now pay $2K for a movement that went for $300 and I will not support inflating that amount higher.

So, it's true. the mantra is, "go Learn it yourself" This hasn't happened just once. It's been common. WatchMaster originally created the Vintage PANERAI market almost single-handed and his inflated retail prices quickly boosted the auction price on Rolex and Cortebert movements, because people saw what you could do with them and suddenly everyone wanted them. These Pocket Watches saw the same inflationary rise, Rolex was further boosted by the brand, but it's price went up with the demand ... Cortebert used to be $50 a pop, [and still that is about what they're worth!]

So fool me once, fool me twice, fool me thrice? No.

Is it selfish? I think it is, and I think it's self preservation. In fact I have got to the point that I don't even like showing the resultant projects. I have shown 3 of the 5 Angelus projects I have made, but I don't think I am going to post the others. Every time I do, I just get more grief for simply sharing something I have done.

That's never enough, I either have to describe how I did it, tell others how to make their own, (which I guess includes the full course of how to be an independent watchmaker) as these projects make professionals go grey. If I won't do that, can I then; Make them one, sell them a movement, sell them parts because they've bought five auctions (Ha Ha I out bid you) but I broke them and now I need parts, do you have any?

Sadly, I am not making this stuff up, this is crap I read in PMs and e-mails. This is why I have removed any intent that I sell ANYTHING, nor do I imply or advertise that I do modification work, sales, parts, etc.

Still, the question remains and gets posted ...

Enzo,

As a newbie here, I'm like a kid in a candy store. I'll go as far as to say that I like some of my reps better than some of my gens. It's definitely satisfying to plunk down $5K worth of hard earned cash for a watch you've been staring at for a few years and can finally afford. (Not that I'm complaining). It's another thing altogether to learn about the movements, the history behind the movements, and to build your own watch. Each day I learn a little more about watches, and crystals, and AR coating, and assembly and disassembly of fine timepieces.

I definitely understand your grief about the Angelus projects and the movements. And I for one will not outbid you on an ebay movement. But it would be nice to one day see or possibly own something similar to what you've constructed. And if your work is to be a proprietary secret, then I fully understand.

But don't stop posting and sharing your work on the boards. That doesn't help anything. I think most people here get it and will stop hassling you for a watch. So please post away and just let everyone know that these are really "one-off" projects, and no you can't simply sell one for $500

thanks,

skc :lol:

 

[BurgerFlaggen]

...As a newbie here, I'm like a kid in a candy store. I'll go as far as to say that I like some of my reps better than some of my gens. It's definitely satisfying to plunk down $5K worth of hard earned cash for a watch you've been staring at for a few years and can finally afford...

My unsolicited advice is that if you intend to lay out a few k for a watch, make it a gen with a real company backing a warranty, not a rep from a party selling illegal, counterfeit goods via posts on an internet forum.
BTW, I am not indicating any individual or entity, but the idea as a whole.

I'm trying to inject a bit of sanity into the outer fringe of this habit we all share

 

[skcheng]

...As a newbie here, I'm like a kid in a candy store. I'll go as far as to say that I like some of my reps better than some of my gens. It's definitely satisfying to plunk down $5K worth of hard earned cash for a watch you've been staring at for a few years and can finally afford...

My unsolicited advice is that if you intend to lay out a few k for a watch, make it a gen with a real company backing a warranty, not a rep from a party selling illegal, counterfeit goods via posts on an internet forum.
BTW, I am not indicating any individual or entity, but the idea as a whole.

I'm trying to inject a bit of sanity into the outer fringe of this habit we all share

Funny that you say that, but I've had issues with one of my rep watches (keep in mind that I've only been doing this for a few months) and I sent it back and it was returned repaired and I was only out shipping costs 1 way. I think that's pretty good service. When my Rolex Sub TT clasp broke, I was out my watch for 4 weeks and lighter in the pocket by $375. That's gotta be the most expensive piece of stamped metal on the planet, wouldn't you say? What choice did I have but to repair it? But you're right. I wouldn't lay out a few k for a rep........unless perhaps it was an Angelus :twisted:

 

[Cucumber_Jones]

enzo - stop posting and go make me a watch!!!!! - kidding of couse (ps nothing in the mail today -damn!).

 

[CISO1969]

Enzo:

Well thought out and presented response. I understand what you are saying, and why.

There is this tiny voice I keep hearing, but I am smart enough to avoid it:

"Search for the answers grasshopper and one day the student will become the master"

Seriously, I may still attempt to dig up as much info as I can--but doubt I'll attempt this project myself. Like I said, it intrigues me!

CISO

 

[tourby]

:roll:

 

[leftydna]

Tourby,
We've all seen your movements (the Angelus ones also) and are envious!
Like I believe you posted, you are into movements, and that is obious! I am curious are you a watchmaker, skilled hobbyist, or send your stuff out? Just wondering about your background and skills?

______________
Don't be LEFT out
LeftyDNA

:roll: