Advice needed on customs issue after M2M sale

[architekt]

To keep it short I recently bought a watch via M2M which was shipped from a non-EU country to austria.


Unfortunately I pretty much immediately got a notification from my postal services app that said that a "proof of value" is missing and I need to provide further documents to clarify the value or decline the shipment (I.e. return to sender). As you may have guessed I do not have said proof of value and let's just say the watch itself is really not of the subtle type to say the least - so getting it opened by customs would be pretty much be an instant tell.

​​​​​​To make a bad thing worse unfortunately the sender used a fake sender address which means I can't simply decline the shipment and try sending it again as it would not be possible to return it properly.

​​​​
​​​​I'm not really sure on how to proceed here and hope someone could share some advice:

- should I decline the shipment (to prevent further customs issues) and just accept the loss as a lesson learned?
- fake invoices would be a possibility but since it's sent as a "repaired watch" those would just make sense for some work done, not the watch itself. Not even speaking of that being another illegal act lol.
​​​​​​- due to the fake address the seller is also in no position to help me
- ???
​​​​I'm leaning towards accepting my losses and declining the shipment, especially as the receiving address is my office address, to prevent further customs issues but with time pressing i'm still unsure.

Thanks in advance for all input.
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[McDuck888]

It bugs me that the seller used a 'fake address', that's not helpful in the least. It feels like the seller's fault to me.

 

[flashu]

Too many variables you can’t control at this point.
You can get in a bigger issues considering what you have there, preparing papers which are not true can get you in trouble.


PS
In the future don’t use your office address for obvious reasons

 

[Yorgos]

Simple questions…

Why the seller used a fake address?
Is it something that you were aware of, before the package was shipped?
What value has the seller declared the item?

Which is the country of origin?

Even if the address is fake, but legit, the package will return and remain in the post office until the seller gets it.


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[JayBee0815]

Unfortunately, I don't know the procedure of the Austrian customs. Therefore, I can't really give you a convincing answer.
Two examples:
- If you get such a letter in Germany, you can write off the watch, because the package is usually opened.
- But I have also had a case with Swiss customs where I, as the seller, simply confirmed the declared value (60 euros or so) by email and the watch was delivered.
Be that as it may. If the seller gives a wrong address, that's not very helpful. So he should actually pay for the loss.

 

[architekt]

It bugs me that the seller used a 'fake address', that's not helpful in the least. (...)

well, yes, I'm also not the biggest fan of that idea :/

Simple questions…

Why the seller used a fake address?
Is it something that you were aware of, before the package was shipped?
What value has the seller declared the item?

Which is the country of origin?

Even if the address is fake, but legit, the package will return and remain in the post office until the seller gets it.

1. I don't know, I guess as a matter of protection due to legal reasons in his country.
2. I was not aware of a fake address being used before the package was shipped. I was made aware of the fact once I contacted the seller wanting to explore the "just let it go back and retry with a new shipment" route.
3. Declared as a repaired watch with a value of around 40€
4. Switzerland
I guess he wouldn't be able to just pick it up and say "oopsie I put a wrong name and address on that parcel and I want it back now pls"
​​​​​

​​​​​
- If you get such a letter in Germany, you can write off the watch, because the package is usually opened.
- But I have also had a case with Swiss customs where I, as the seller, simply confirmed the declared value (60 euros or so) by email and the watch was delivered.

At the moment it seems that the package was not opened by now. At least by what the postal app and their FAQs say (but I'm really not sure of this tbh). It pretty much says I need to send further documents proofing the value so they can give it through customs or decline it. If I do not respond with further proof or I decline the shipment it will get opens by customs.
​​​​​​
My guess would be that the fake address triggered some red light although I'm not sure if that is possible.

Nevertheless seems like a battle I won't win :/

Be that as it may. If the seller gives a wrong address, that's not very helpful. So he should actually pay for the loss.

Well, I'm not looking to blameshift which is why I did not name the seller by now. He was responsive and friendly during the whole deal and has sent me all informations he could considering the circumstances.

Though, I'm still not sure how I should classify the whole fake address thing as it's obviously makes the situation way more complicated and most likely not solveable. Since there is no specific rule against this (at least not one I found) mods would have to decide this I guess.

I was accepting the risk of not receiving the watch as I am aware of customs risks especially for non-EU countries and I trusted the seller with the "method" he seems to use regularly (declaration as repaired watch, value in range said above, etc.).

​​​​​​​But if I had known this would include a fake sender address I, especially in hindsight, would have declined. As the current situation shows, this small detail changes the whole dynamic (at least from the buyers perspective).

 

[architekt]

In the future don’t use your office address for obvious reasons

Funny thing but that was actually an attempt to prevent customs as in recent shipments it seemed like parcels to that address won't actually be looked at by customs due to some political entanglements.

In hindsight that was kinda dumb and resulted in having to tell my boss that there is a chance customs will send a letter for me which wasn't the best experience

 

[JayBee0815]

Well, I'm not looking to blameshift which is why I did not name the seller by now. He was responsive and friendly during the whole deal and has sent me all informations he could considering the circumstances.

Though, I'm still not sure how I should classify the whole fake address thing as it's obviously makes the situation way more complicated and most likely not solveable. Since there is no specific rule against this (at least not one I found) mods would have to decide this I guess.

I was accepting the risk of not receiving the watch as I am aware of customs risks especially for non-EU countries and I trusted the seller with the "method" he seems to use regularly (declaration as repaired watch, value in range said above, etc.).

But if I had known this would include a fake sender address I, especially in hindsight, would have declined. As the current situation shows, this small detail changes the whole dynamic (at least from the buyers perspective).

I see, thats why I'm not keen on selling to non-EU countries ... although at least in my case, apart from this incident with a Swiss buyer that ended well, there were no problems. But this incident wouldnt end well, if I have used a fake sender ;-)

Probably the best thing is to let the mods decide. There have certainly been cases like this before.

In any case, thanks to you for bringing this problem to our attention. In future, when buying from outside the EU, I will always ask whether the seller is using a fake sender.

 

[Raddave]

You want my opinion ?

 

[architekt]

You want my opinion ?

Well, yes, of course.

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[Raddave]

Well, yes, of course.

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Let me clarify , customs is offering to send it back to the seller and things be dropped correct ?

 

[architekt]

Let me clarify , customs if offering to send it back to the seller and things be dropped correct ?

I have 2 options in my postal service app, either send documents or decline the shipping so it will get sent back to the sender (without addional costs attached for me).

So yes, I guess that means there would be no further customs/legal trouble.

Unfortunately due to the fake address used (which seems to be the main detail of this thread now) this also means the watch and therefore my money is lost :/

​​​​But yeah, if using a fake sender address is within the rules and and you guys decide the seller is not to blame I'm clearly ready to take the hit/loss as a learning fee for future sales.

 

[Raddave]

Personally i would decline the shipment and ask the seller for a refund

and no its not againt the rules , but it would fall under common sense IMO , what if he had put the wrong address on the package (shipping)

 

[Yorgos]

The seller has some percentage of responsibility since you weren’t informed prior to shipping.

If the fake address has a real name, he might be able to get the watch once it reaches the post office.
If not, then forget it.

Usually, among million of shipments going in and out of customs, there is a percentage of random inspections in depth.
I believe that you ‘ve got extremely “lucky”.
I would go ahead and send some kind of proof and let things roll.


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[McDuck888]

Personally i would decline the shipment and ask the seller for a refund

+1 on this, (but for me because I think the seller should eat the loss on this occasion. Your security got taken away when they put a false address.)

 

[derjenigewelcher]

Its on me. We found a solution (50/50).

that was the last fucking time i sold on RWI to a non swiss member, cause i am notnpeatalozzi and dont shit money.

all those who dont arenin to this situation, go fuck yourwelfs.

cheers to OP, you are a good mate!thanks for all

 

[architekt]

As stated by derjenigewelcher he agreed upon a 50/50 split which is a good solution for me.

I already declined the parcel ... we'll see if it magically turns up anywhere in the future
Thank you very much to derjenigewelcher for standing up to the issue and agreeing on a refund despite not having to do so!

 

[Raddave]

all those who dont arenin to this situation, go fuck yourwelfs.

i hope you are not talking to me ....

 

[Futzorr]

Glad to hear buyer and seller found a solution both are happy with.

however the fake adress is interesting. I could imagine it would be useful for legal issues - however an issue for the buyer..

However wouldnt switzerland cause custom issues in all countries as it is not part of eu?

 

[BlueLineFarmer]

If the shipping from address was fake how does the watch get sent back to the correct address.