Accuracy?

[drachen]

Hi everybody. I am a newbie, this is my first post. Have a 'Noobmariner' on the way from Josh, just passed through customs, and am impatiently waiting its arrival.

However, the topic I would like to see feedback on is accuracy. While everybody seems to be interested in authenticity of the case, the shape of the fonts in the date window, and other microscopic details, I don't see much discussion about just how much time these little machines lose or gain in 24 hours.

The mainstream magazines list 24-hour accuracy of production watches in excruciating detail. I would like to see some lively discussion on this topic for reps.

What kind of 24-hour deviations are people seeing, crown-up, crown-down, face-up, face-down, under light bulbs, in the dark, on the wrist, at the equator, during a full moon, ...

 

[coop]

It will always vary. Mosts reps are not super accurate, but can be regulated. COSC is something like +5 or -5 secs per day(I think). Lots of us here have regulated our reps to get REAL close to that.

 

[canuck88]

As a newbie, let me be the first to say: Don't Sweat the Small Stuff. If you do, this hobby will drive you bonkers.

That being said, anywhere from -10/+15 seconds per day is acceptable. Any more outside that range and I'd have it regulated. YMMV.

 

[drhydro]

Man... I'm inside my watches almost the minute I get em.... given enough time, say a coupla days, to see how they do. If they're off by more than 10 secs/day, I give em a nudge. It does not take much movement of the regulator lever to effect a LARGE change- generally, the smallest move you can see under a loupe will change the rate by 5 or 10 seconds- but I find that several tries will almost always result in +/- 5 secs a day, then I start looking at how they behave dial up/down, crown up/down etc- my best results so far are my pam 196, +1 sec/day reliably, and a PO that does about the same.

I'll answer to anal. And I just got a Microset analyzer from Bryan Mumford http://bmumford.com/ so things are going to get verrry ticky around here.

 

[cdzsmith]

COSC standards are -4/+6 secs per day. I've had gens that push the limits of that range, and I have reps that are well within that range. I was afraid to open up the gens, but have no such fear with the reps. There's experts out there who can answer with much more detail, but so far my reps (none of which are more than 2 years old) keep time as accurately as the movements they're modeled on.

 

[drachen]

Man... I'm inside my watches almost the minute I get em.... given enough time, say a coupla days, to see how they do. If they're off by more than 10 secs/day, I give em a nudge. It does not take much movement of the regulator lever to effect a LARGE change- generally, the smallest move you can see under a loupe will change the rate by 5 or 10 seconds- but I find that several tries will almost always result in +/- 5 secs a day, then I start looking at how they behave dial up/down, crown up/down etc- my best results so far are my pam 196, +1 sec/day reliably, and a PO that does about the same.

I'll answer to anal. And I just got a Microset analyzer from Bryan Mumford http://bmumford.com/ so things are going to get verrry ticky around here.

Well, by a strange coincidence the Green bezel sub just showed up this afternoon! Very impressive. Went to time.gov and synchronized it to the second, and after a few hours I can see a tiny bit of drift (running faster than real time). I expect to be off by about 15+ seconds after 24 hours, if this keeps up.

Thanks to the screws in the bracelet, it only took me a few minutes to remove some links and fit it very nicely.

Okay, next step. What tool do I need to properly and safely open the back? And then what tool do I need to bump the regulator? I don't want to be sending the watch back to Josh over and over and the reason I started 'cheap' was to not be afraid to open the thing up and tinker a bit with the regulator.

Until now, I have only owned Quartz movements, and so never needed to worry about anything until it was time to replace the battery, several years after purchasing it.

Can somebody point me to any tutorial web pages on how to adjust the Asian movement, and what tools I'll need? Given I only paid $108 including shipping, it looks like a safe training watch. And if I expand into a few of the others (Omega, etc.), what alternate tools will I need to open those?

 

[drhydro]

Can somebody point me to any tutorial web pages on how to adjust the Asian movement, and what tools I'll need? Given I only paid $108 including shipping, it looks like a safe training watch. And if I expand into a few of the others (Omega, etc.), what alternate tools will I need to open those?

First thing I'd say, is wait a week or so before doing anything- let it settle down, lower its blood pressure, get used to its new home... might need to be litter-trained....

To open it, try folded-up ductape, I used that method for quite a while before I picked up a rolex opener- and I still find it desirable in some cases. Just make a fairly thick pad with the adhesive side out, apply heavy pressure with the palm of your hand and it should twist right off. Counterclockwise!

See this for a movement primer:
http://replica-watch.info/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6562
To regulate the watch, you move the lever 32 VERY slightly- AWAY from the lever 35 to speed it up, TOWARD the lever 35 to slow it. DON'T move lever 35.

COSC standards (from Novesh) are:
* Average daily rate: -4 +6
* Mean variation in rates: 2
* Greatest variation in rates: 5
* Difference between rates in H & V positions: -6 +8
* Largest variation in rates: 10
* Thermal variation: +-0.6
* Rate resumption: +-5

and this might help:
http://replica-watch.info/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15948&highlight=regulating
http://replica-watch.info/forum/vie...postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=regulating

Do some searchng on the forums for tutorials and stuff, too. There's a lot out there. I can't find the one I was looking for with some nice pics, but if I do I'll try to forward it....

Good luck!

 

[OiRogers]

I've got three watches right now that have been regulated to within +/- 1 sec a day with wrist wear, +/-3 sec a day off wrist or on winder... can't complain about those...

Then I have a few movements (strangely Swiss ETA's) that just won't behave... I have a 2836-2 (w/gmt mod) that I've been tinkering with for monthes... i'm just happy that one is running.

 

[drachen]

Wow, thanks for all this info!! It should get me going!

I will wait a while before doing anything and carefully read all this stuff. If I get stuck, I'll be back for more questions!.

 

[drhydro]

I got to looking at Novesh's table of COSC stds that I copied above and noticed something that didn't seem to add up- so I looked around and found a rather complete expose of the COSC racket on Timezone- here:

http://www.timezone.com/library/wbore/wbore631733384647656250

have fun.

 

[The Chap In The Boot]

My submariner from Homer (prolly a kingwatch) loses 4 secs/day.

 

[pugwash]

I don't actually regulate my watches. As long as they're within a minute every day, that'll do me. :shock:

Now, this is probably going to bug me and make me check all my watches. Thanks.

Oh, most accurate mechanical? My brother's gen 45mm PO. It's quartz accurate. Just like reps, when he first got it, it took a while to settle and then it just ran dead on for weeks. 8)

You just can't compete with that, so why bother?

 

[The Chap In The Boot]

On the other hand, if you want a watch really accurate, buy a citizen solar without batteries and radiocontrolled, automatically receiveing radio signal from a radio transmitter of an atomic clock and so it rests itself to the split second timing. I guess this is the best for accuracy.
Are there reps of this ?

I like it, anywat.

 

[drachen]

Okay, I took the plunge. Too impatient.

Yes, the watch was gaining about 40+ seconds in 24 hours, so I followed the advice, made the duct-tape pad, moved the regulator lever just a tad back toward lever 35...

Stay tuned and we'll see how I end up.

In a way this is kind of crazy. I am a newbie, just got my first automatic by finding Josh thanks to you guys, and within a week of ordering my first Sub, I am regulating it.

Hmmmm. What have you done to me?

 

[cdzsmith]

it's over for you, my friend. sell all your stuff, take a mortgage out on the house.... ur screwed....

 

[Paulrnyn]

I have a gen Rolex datejust as my everyday watch. It's about the same as my other watch that uses an ETA movement. + 10 secs a day. The thing that bothers me about this Rolex and others I've had, they don't seem to have enough winding on my wrist and they run down. I never had that problem with the ETA or my old Seiko.

How are the Chinese movements as far as accuracy?

 

[drhydro]

Almost any decent movement, be it chinese or swiss or whatever, can be regulated to a few seconds/day with a bit of patience. IMO, the quality and pedigree (and level of cleanliness and service!) will show up in its ability to maintain that regulation over time without changing. Oversimplifying a bit, but that's kinda what I've gleaned from reading on these forums.

 

[drachen]

After my first attempt at regulating, I got it down from 45+ seconds or more to about +22 seconds in 24 hours.

It is REALLY hard to tell if you even moved the lever or not. I thought I moved it, and then it did 22 seconds in the next 24 hours, so I guess I didn't move it after all on my second attempt.

Well, I can't resist one more go to see if I can get it down to less than 10... This is kinda fun.

 

[geo1nah2a]

Watch regulating is fun Or even Zen.

Are you wearing it? If so, don't read too much into one day's reading, since you are using just one lever! Watches can be calibrated to different positions, changes in temperature, and isochronism (keeping an acceptable degree of variance throughout the usable power reserve, hope this makes sense!). 10 sec variance a day, should be more than enough, if you are there, don't mess too much with it. Dust is your enemy! If you get to a point that all readings are erratic or you make it stop ticking (off beat, shouldn't touch that second lever), visit your rep-friendly-local-watch-maker. He should be able to tune it back. Ask him if you could admire him during the time he does so. If he is a WIS, he may become a good friend and teacher.


Enjoy your new watch and wear it well.

PS: Not all calibers are created equal. Some can't be tuned to COSC due to design, others due to product variation..

 

[gaspot]

What tools do you guys use to measure the variance? Is it an online atomic clock? Any other software that helps?