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A trip to the AD today

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avenger007

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21/2/09
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In the first constitution of this fine forum it states in section F, subsection 2: http://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/first-constitution-rwi-52724

2) do not post pictures or references to your rep watch on forums for genuine watches. Replicas are legal to purchase in the US, but not in all countries, and they are illegal to manufacture and sell everywhere. Yes, certainly Rolex knows they exist, and they undoubtedly know about these forums as well, but there is no need to call attention to ourselves, or to demonstrate to the world how good the imitations have become.

As doing this calls for an IMMEDIATE BAN in the constitution, wearing a rep into a Rolex store does not for some reason.

Berating the OP for doing this is fine. I admit that name calling was a little childish on my part, but not out of the question for doing something like this.

The OP may still wear his reps into the AD but will no longer tell us about it. It's done.

Somehow you've inferred posting a rep on a gen forum is the same as wearing a rep into an AD and posting about it by relating a section of the RWI Constitution that contains nothing of the sort. Then you've come to the conclusion that berating a member for doing something not mentioned in said constitution is justified. Interesting.

This is also in the constitution:

"Posts which are abusive or slanderous are subject to immediate removal, and the author will be warned, then banned if offenses continue."

There is nothing wrong with sarcasm and good natured ribbing, but members should be treated with respect regardless of post count or join date. It may come as a surprise to some, but some folks don't know the "Rules of Repdom" when they join. Why not educate folks without the childish remarks and abuse? We'll be a better forum for it.
 

OI812

Active Member
17/3/06
210
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Somehow you've inferred posting a rep on a gen forum is the same as wearing a rep into an AD and posting about it by relating a section of the RWI Constitution that contains nothing of the sort. Then you've come to the conclusion that berating a member for doing something not mentioned in said constitution is justified. Interesting.

This is also in the constitution:

"Posts which are abusive or slanderous are subject to immediate removal, and the author will be warned, then banned if offenses continue."

There is nothing wrong with sarcasm and good natured ribbing, but members should be treated with respect regardless of post count or join date. It may come as a surprise to some, but some folks don't know the "Rules of Repdom" when they join. Why not educate folks without the childish remarks and abuse? We'll be a better forum for it.

VERY well stated.... ;)
 

mydnytrydr

Mythical Poster
25/9/09
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Say WHAAAAT?

So it's ok to have a rep, just not in an AD? Breaking the law is ok, just not under the nose of Rolex? Interesting....

Look ... we all have a hobby here that we enjoy ... When one chooses to wear a replica watch into an AD shop, obviously, one runs the risk of being called out. We have several posts that have withstood the test of time on this topic. Those of us expressing opposition to this understand that our hobby is frowned upon by those that sell amazing timepieces that can command as much money as a new Ferrari ..... maybe it's best not to poke your finger in their eye to the point where they divert more of their budget to PROSECUTE and SHUT DOWN the source of their PROBLEM ...... just a thought ..... CHEERS!
 

OI812

Active Member
17/3/06
210
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In the first constitution of this fine forum it states in section F, subsection 2: http://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/first-constitution-rwi-52724

2) do not post pictures or references to your rep watch on forums for genuine watches. Replicas are legal to purchase in the US, but not in all countries, and they are illegal to manufacture and sell everywhere. Yes, certainly Rolex knows they exist, and they undoubtedly know about these forums as well, but there is no need to call attention to ourselves, or to demonstrate to the world how good the imitations have become.

As doing this calls for an IMMEDIATE BAN in the constitution, wearing a rep into a Rolex store does not for some reason.

Berating the OP for doing this is fine. I admit that name calling was a little childish on my part, but not out of the question for doing something like this.

The OP may still wear his reps into the AD but will no longer tell us about it. It's done.

.....and you think Rolex/Rolex collectors, etc. etc. etc. aren't already aware of the quality of the best reps available in today's marketplace? Sorry to inform you, but they are MORE than aware and anything posted on a forum or worn into an AD won't "inform" them of much of anything. (once again, TERRIBLE form to do either)

ALL the makers of fine watches/clothing (and Nike, Gucci, etc.) will no doubt be fully informed in regards to the quality of watches/clothing available and will no doubt have multiple examples in hand. I would imagine the sudden uptick in seizures/arrests/confiscations recently is a direct result of their knowledge of the quality of the latest generation of Chinese fakes. I would imagine they are terribly frustrated that their watches/hand bags/shirts/shoes can be copied to a degree that is somewhat comparable to the genuine item. I know I would certainly be concerned if I were them.
 

levelmanroger

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1/10/08
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Nobody said they would send thugs out to collect reps. But if you willingly hand an AD a rep they do not have to return it. Same as if you buy stolen goods you are out your money unless you can recover from the seller.
This has become rediculous. I suggest closing the thread, but I'm out either way.
 

QinetiQ

Banned member, the goat does not approve
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Nobody said they would send thugs out to collect reps. But if you willingly hand an AD a rep they do not have to return it. Same as if you buy stolen goods you are out your money unless you can recover from the seller.
This has become rediculous. I suggest closing the thread, but I'm out either way.

If I hand a clerk a rep while not knowing it is actually a rep (even if I knew, he doesn't know that) and he does indeed recognize it as a rep and tries to take it away from me, you do realize I'm not just going to stay there and watch right. Best case scenario I punch the f*@#er in the face and walk away with my damn watch. To me this is complete BS. That's the equivalent of stealing in my book and I don't believe any of that crap.

But when you steal goods you're doing it knowing fully well what you're doing while you might buy a rep thinking it's a gen (eBay etc). Now where's the AD that wants to take my damn watch?
 

frigpig

Ghost of Sales Mod Past
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16/8/09
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Somehow you've inferred posting a rep on a gen forum is the same as wearing a rep into an AD and posting about it by relating a section of the RWI Constitution that contains nothing of the sort. Then you've come to the conclusion that berating a member for doing something not mentioned in said constitution is justified. Interesting.

This is also in the constitution:

"Posts which are abusive or slanderous are subject to immediate removal, and the author will be warned, then banned if offenses continue."

There is nothing wrong with sarcasm and good natured ribbing, but members should be treated with respect regardless of post count or join date. It may come as a surprise to some, but some folks don't know the "Rules of Repdom" when they join. Why not educate folks without the childish remarks and abuse? We'll be a better forum for it.

Avenger, for the first point. I do consider it the same thing. Others will not.

For the second point, I think sarcasm and good natured ribbing is what happened. There where no abusive or slanderous remarks made by anyone in this thread.

As for the last 2 sentences in your quote, I can't agree more. I apologize to the members of this forum and will hold my tongue until "the benefit of the doubt" has been established on all posts which appear to be overly "noobish".
 

tommy_boy

Athletic Supporter
23/4/09
9,562
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The Evergreen State
This is a US law, but I think the Swiss exercise the same procedure. Emphasis added:

The Trademark Counterfeiting Act of 1984 was enacted to provide additional causes of actions and remedies for injured IP owners. Under the act, courts are authorized to order the seizure of goods and counterfeit marks involved in the violation, the means of making the counterfeit marks, and the records documenting the manufacture, sale, or receipt of items involved in the violation.

Trademark owners may apply to the court for such orders without notifying the adverse party (an ex parte seizure order). Nevertheless, the courts will not grant an application unless security (that is, a dollar amount adequate to cover damages the adverse party may suffer as a result of wrongful seizure or attempted seizure) is provided by the person obtaining the order, and the court finds that the facts clearly show that (1) the application is likely to succeed in showing that the person against whom seizure would be ordered used a counterfeit mark; (2) immediate and irreparable injury to the applicant will occur if seizure is not ordered; (3) harm to the applicant by denying the application outweighs the harm to the interests of the person against whom seizure would be ordered;
(4) the person against whom seizure would be ordered would destroy, move, hide or otherwise make the goods in question inaccessible to the court if notified of the proceeding; (5) the applicant has not publicized the requested seizure; and (6) the items to be seized will be located at a place identified in the application.
 

OI812

Active Member
17/3/06
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This is a US law, but I think the Swiss exercise the same procedure. Emphasis added:

The Trademark Counterfeiting Act of 1984 was enacted to provide additional causes of actions and remedies for injured IP owners. Under the act, courts are authorized to order the seizure of goods and counterfeit marks involved in the violation, the means of making the counterfeit marks, and the records documenting the manufacture, sale, or receipt of items involved in the violation.

Trademark owners may apply to the court for such orders without notifying the adverse party (an ex parte seizure order). Nevertheless, the courts will not grant an application unless security (that is, a dollar amount adequate to cover damages the adverse party may suffer as a result of wrongful seizure or attempted seizure) is provided by the person obtaining the order, and the court finds that the facts clearly show that (1) the application is likely to succeed in showing that the person against whom seizure would be ordered used a counterfeit mark; (2) immediate and irreparable injury to the applicant will occur if seizure is not ordered; (3) harm to the applicant by denying the application outweighs the harm to the interests of the person against whom seizure would be ordered;
(4) the person against whom seizure would be ordered would destroy, move, hide or otherwise make the goods in question inaccessible to the court if notified of the proceeding; (5) the applicant has not publicized the requested seizure; and (6) the items to be seized will be located at a place identified in the application.

THAT is an example of what I wanted to see.... THX :)

Now what that says is this....IMOP .....

"Trademark OWNERS," ie. Rolex in this case and NOT an AD, can apply to the COURT of jurisdiction for an order to seize, without the items owner knowledge, any items that might be reasonably considered to violate their properly issued copyright, trademark, patent, etc. However, only with a deposit/"security" against the possibility of damages due to a "wrongful seizure"... etc. etc. etc. (rest is pretty self explanatory)

What it doesn't say is an "AD"/"authorized reseller/retailer can take it upon themselves to "seize" an item that is known to be counterfeit and violates the copyright/trademark/patent of the manufacturer of the goods they are retailing/reselling. (which I seriously doubt in most jurisdictions, at least here in the USA, they can) HOWEVER, the question is this, is an "authorized retailer"considered an "owner" of the company they represent and, if they are, can they take it upon themselves to act in the best interest of the company by seizing said item on the spot WITHOUT obtaining any legal authority via the court of jurisdiction????

AS for this thread in general, personally, I think that "debates" like these can be VERY constructive if the proper decorum is maintained. (ie. no juvenile comments, etc.) I've read countless threads, on both rep and genuine forums, over the years pertaining to the very subject we're discussing in this thread. I can't think of ANY that actually resulted in the readers learning the actual facts/laws involved.

IMOP, it would be nice to know what our actual LEGAL rights are in differing parts of the world/jurisdictions. That would be a lot better than the usual "better not wear your watch into an AD or they'll cut it off your arm, crush it, then strike you 50 times with a cane." (which might be the law in Singapore :)) Which is then followed by a flame-fest from the all seeing and all knowing "experts" on the forum.

IMOP, not only should this thread not be closed, but, it would be great if the members here did some research in their country as to how the law actually reads, etc. THAT would be some valuable knowledge to pass on to members and would, at least until the law is changed, put an end to these threads.....and the petty, juvenile, and inflammatory responses by the ignorant so often contained within them.
 

OI812

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17/3/06
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Thanks for that, Tommy. It make a very entertai..............zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

LOL....point well taken as nothing is more boring for most than legalize.

However, it sure would be NICE to get a definitive answer to this question so as to put this to rest, at least for awhile. Otherwise in another month or so the EXACT SAME THREAD will appear with the EXACT SAME "type of responses" being given.

Anyway, I'll shut up for now....(I can hear the cheers.. :))
 

Autobahn

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21/10/10
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It is fine to where your reps to the AD. Just be honest about it. Wave your arms about in an undignified manner and loudly announce, "Counterfeit watch coming through, don't be alarmed, I come in peace, please lower your firearms". :beatahorse:
 

JC7

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15/6/10
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You guys forgot it was Christmas today with this thread..

2162.jpg
 

trailboss99

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OK guys, take it a little easy on the guy huh? Would it not have been possible to point out his error without ripping him a new one? And on Christmas? :facepalm:
Everybody need a chill pill or another glass of eggnog.



haven't been here as long as you guys but i find some members quick to condemn. thats why i find it hard to contribute anything (or at least share some experiences with replicas) because i might be banned, humiliated or be labelled as an idiot. To the OP, i feel you man!
Look at this guys, is this how you want new members to feel about being able to comment here? FFS, how will we grow as a forum if people feel like this? This is the second time this week I have seen a response like this and it saddens me. You lot are too quick to flame folk and you have people scared to post! Not happy peoples.


Bravo9: no one will ever ban you here for having an opinion mate, you have my word on that.




Sorry to inform you, but they are MORE than aware and anything posted on a forum or worn into an AD won't "inform" them of much of anything.
Um, no, as a rule you are wrong. The average gen owner can not spot a rep held under his own nose, he doesn't know the little things we spot. Why should he be concerned about the exact shape of a CG or the tail on the date font 9? He has gens, things like that don't concern him. A Noobmariner recently spent three days or more on the front page of Jake's Rolex Blog and as a big post on TRF being praised by the members until one of the rep folk pointed it out. It still took a day for them to be sure.

This is not good, no one likes to be made a fool of and the good folk at TRF now despise reps and rep owners jut a little bit more than before that happened. Same with ADs, the average one is not conversant with just how good reps have got and when they are made aware it frightens them. The more scared they get, the more pressure is applied to Rolex to throw more money and lawyers at the issue and that is bad for us. Apart from that it's just plain bad manners to wear a rep into the place of business of one who makes his living selling gens. It's rude and disrespectful, same way as pulling up at the Lambo dealership in a Countach replicar would be only worse.



Col.
 

cjohns

Known Member
15/9/10
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I had to go back and reread what I posted that set off the shit storm.First off you guys that are over the top with these mostly crappy rep watches..take a breath JHC!!AD sales people have no clue and really don't care..FACT!!My wearing the rep wasn't planned,my gen died that morning and I was supposed to go with the wife on the last minute shopping crap..but she said just run down there.The ADs watchmaker that I had talked to was there so I jumped in the car.Just so happened I had the rep on,just that simple.Like someone posted I was there with a gen opened up on the counter talking to their watchmaker what needed to be done and what else I would like updated since I was going to drop a crap load of money I think that's where I got the pass wearing the rep,,,and remember the comment about the backup watch was made to me by the ADs sale person!! As far as Rolex goes they know everything that goes on in the rep scene that you can count on!!!Yes they're losing money on the total on rep sales collectivilly on their copy right deal but I really believe people that buy reps and gens are rarely one in the same for what ever reason so Rolex isn't really losing "money".I picked up a rep just to give my gen a break from the daily beating and when the new bigger Explores start coming out on the secondary market I might buy one.OH and assuming I'm a noob...swing and a miss there too!!I remember way back when the old gold Datejusts with the diamond dials came out...the ones that turned your wrist green after a couple of weeks...if they ran that long.Someone posted last week that 999 out of 1000 Rolexes on the steet are reps if that's true I think reps are here to stay.
 

QinetiQ

Banned member, the goat does not approve
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OK guys, take it a little easy on the guy huh? Would it not have been possible to point out his error without ripping him a new one? And on Christmas? :facepalm:
Everybody need a chill pill or another glass of eggnog.




Look at this guys, is this how you want new members to feel about being able to comment here? FFS, how will we grow as a forum if people feel like this? This is the second time this week I have seen a response like this and it saddens me. You lot are too quick to flame folk and you have people scared to post! Not happy peoples.

+1 on that!!! Well said Col
 

ThinkBachs

Mythical Poster
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9/2/09
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The next member who posts retard, dumbass, etc directed at another member will find themselves "worthy" of a little vacation from RWI.

Seriously, guys, this snarky arrogant attitude has no place here. Is wearing a rep in an AD a bad idea? Yes. Is it proper to tell the OP this? Yes. Is it acceptable to do it in an insulting way? No. If you think RWI can't do without you for a few days, think again.

Merry Christmas! :)
Later.

As an added note, if you think that I can't do without RWI for a few days, think again.
 

OI812

Active Member
17/3/06
210
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OK Trailboss, while I 100% agree with most of what you stated (and you'll see this IF you read ALL of my posts in this thread) you MISquoted me OUT of context. (which is bad form IMOP) In NO way was I referring to the "average gen owner" and that's obvious if you read the FULL quote. I was referring to the SERIOUS Rolex collectors, AD's, and moreso the Rolex corporation itself.

I know a lot of the guy's on the Rolex/Panerai forums and I'll ASSURE you they ARE more than aware of the existence of "super" reps. (Same thing for the AD's and most assuredly Rolex/Panerai/Omega, etc. etc. etc.) Now, have they held one in their hands or reviewed one up close and personal?.......in most cases probably not. (although several of them I know have a rep or two) However, most serious WIS are more than aware that really, really good replicas are coming out of China like metal shavings to a magnet. (and they aren't pleased about it)

Now, we're in FULL and 100% agreement that posting reps on a genuine forum is a TERRIBLE idea. Same for wearing a replica into an AD. We're also 100% in agreement that most genuine owners/AD's couldn't spot a REALLY good replica from a genuine. (and I stated this earlier in this thread) However, the vast majority are aware they exist and are proliferating throughout the world on a scale not previously seen before. This wasn't so just a few years ago, but, it is now. (I remember when the first good Panerai 111 reps hit our shores just 5 or so years ago.....6497 decorated....virtually perfect to the eye. I was astounded as were most Paneristi. Same for the 1/1 reps)


Here is the actual FULL quote......

" .....and you think Rolex/Rolex collectors, etc. etc. etc. aren't already aware of the quality of the best reps available in today's marketplace? Sorry to inform you, but they are MORE than aware and anything posted on a forum or worn into an AD won't "inform" them of much of anything. (once again, TERRIBLE form to do either)

ALL the makers of fine watches/clothing (and Nike, Gucci, etc.) will no doubt be fully informed in regards to the quality of watches/clothing available and will no doubt have multiple examples in hand. I would imagine the sudden uptick in seizures/arrests/confiscations recently is a direct result of their knowledge of the quality of the latest generation of Chinese fakes. I would imagine they are terribly frustrated that their watches/hand bags/shirts/shoes can be copied to a degree that is somewhat comparable to the genuine item. I know I would certainly be concerned if I were them."
 
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