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124060 Comparison: Gen / Clean / VSF
- Thread starter diamonds
- Start date
- 3/8/13
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I have now had several friends and business partners in my surrounding with relatively new Submariners. I had the impression that the watches were even more reflective or had a more intense shining. Am I mistaken (perhaps due to the respect to the GEN) or is this a visible difference between GEN and REP?
- 30/8/24
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@diamonds’ comparison highlights just how close the VSF and Clean models come to the gen. Regarding bracelet sizes, as noted, most reps follow the gen’s 21mm lug width, though slight factory variations can happen—always good to double-check if precision is key for you.
For anyone debating between the 124060 and the 126600 SD-43, it seems the consensus leans toward the 124060 for bezel accuracy and overall quality. Pairing a VSF head with a ZF bracelet is definitely a popular move for those wanting to elevate fit and finish
For anyone debating between the 124060 and the 126600 SD-43, it seems the consensus leans toward the 124060 for bezel accuracy and overall quality. Pairing a VSF head with a ZF bracelet is definitely a popular move for those wanting to elevate fit and finish
Excellent review. I own both the Clean and VSF versions, and your reciew
Is spot on.
Both are excellent reps. And 99% of people
Likely couldn't tell them apart is mixed up.
Thanks for the post!!
Is spot on.
Both are excellent reps. And 99% of people
Likely couldn't tell them apart is mixed up.
Thanks for the post!!
- 3/3/24
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Great op and pictures.
I also have a gen and a vsf 126610. From one meter or more away you probably couldn’t spot the difference if someone walked passed you but from up close it’s very obvious.
I gave both watches to my gf that doesn’t know anything about watches and she pointed out the gen one in 10 seconds. Mostly because of the clearer crystal and the shining rehaut and hands.
When holding the watches they also feel different, vsf have sharper edges on the case and bracelet even tho the gen one also have some. The biggest difference are the bezel, the shining letters but especially how it feels when you turn it, there’s no play in the gen one and the cuts are nice to touch.
I think that if you’re want to pull of the rep one as a gen you need gen crystal and hands. If you’re going to let someone try it that knows watches you also need a gen bezel.
Its a great rep, don’t get me wrong but to me it needs some frankening if you want it to look the part.
Bad picture but the difference in the crystals are pretty obvious.
I also have a gen and a vsf 126610. From one meter or more away you probably couldn’t spot the difference if someone walked passed you but from up close it’s very obvious.
I gave both watches to my gf that doesn’t know anything about watches and she pointed out the gen one in 10 seconds. Mostly because of the clearer crystal and the shining rehaut and hands.
When holding the watches they also feel different, vsf have sharper edges on the case and bracelet even tho the gen one also have some. The biggest difference are the bezel, the shining letters but especially how it feels when you turn it, there’s no play in the gen one and the cuts are nice to touch.
I think that if you’re want to pull of the rep one as a gen you need gen crystal and hands. If you’re going to let someone try it that knows watches you also need a gen bezel.
Its a great rep, don’t get me wrong but to me it needs some frankening if you want it to look the part.
Bad picture but the difference in the crystals are pretty obvious.
I’m intrigued by the differences between the ZF bracelet and the one that VSF provides.
Is there a comparison somewhere that shows what makes the ZF one nicer than VSF and Clean? Contemplating picking one up for my VSF 124060.
Also, in other threads, people mention the VSF bracelet is already quite nice - what sort of improvements can be made over it? Does this also minimize SEL gaps with a bracelet swap?
Sorry for the lengthy question, hoping to learn the differences, thanks!
The main difference between the VSF and CF (ARF) bracelet is the gap between the links - that gap on the CF is smaller (adding up to a few millimeters over the whole length of the bracelet), so it is closer to gen (it is hard to spot if you don't have the bracelets next to each other, though). Also the engraving on the CF is better, and the clasp closes a bit nicer. This is really marginal improvements, though, but overall the CF just feels a (very) tiny bit better than the VSF.
On the other hand, the VSF has a smoother Glidelock mechanism, which might be preferred by many.
Thanks for the write up. How about ZF, haven’t seen too much information on the ZF bracelet compared to ARF, is it an older model and has better finish?
pollyprissypants
Getting To Know The Place
In my experience, quality with replicas, even from the same factory, is variable. My VSF has a great braclet and clasp.
- 10/3/19
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How you got that handspasm?Thank you for the congratulations on my genuine 124060.
For everyone reading this...
I scored the gen with no wait.
Here's how it all went down:
I walked into one of the local ADs and told the salesman that my birthday just passed and I wanted to buy myself a Rolex.
I was very friendly and didn't act like a big shot in any way, nor did I let on that I knew anything about Rolex (or the fake waiting lists). I mentioned NO model names, NO nicknames, and NO reference numbers. I simply said that I wanted a Rolex.
The salesman showed me the usual Two-tone DateJust models they push on everyone. After trying on a few models, I said: "What's the model James Bond wore?
The salesman said: "Oh, that's the Submariner."
I said: "Show me that."
I tried on a bluesy, a kermit/starbucks, the Submariner Date LN, and the 124060. (Remember, I played dumb and mentioned no names or reference numbers).
After trying them all on, my exact words were: "I prefer the one without the date window."
The salesman replied: "That's called a No Date."
I said: "Nice. I'll take it."
Salesman said: (I quote) "I don't think we have any available. Plus there's a very long waiting list.... but let me go talk with my manager and check the status on future availability.
A few moments later, the salesman said: "Good News! My manager said we had one in stock!"
The salesman walked me to a private room to do all the paperwork, ring up the sale, and properly size the watch for my wrist. They poured me champagne and gave me 2 boxes of Rolex chocolates.
Moral of the story: Never act like a big shot.... and when it comes to Rolex ADs... waiting lists are a lie.
A lot of doe, I know
Does anyone know someone who has purchased both and made a Franken VSF/Clean 124060 watch? Is it feasible?
Thanks OP - I'm considering picking one of these up, and it's been really useful to have such a thorough review post to aid my thinking.I recently picked up a genuine Rolex Submariner 124060 from my local AD, and I decided to buy the Clean and VSF models to do a full comparison for the benefit all members at RWI. For Clean and VSF, I turned to RWI M2M sales section: thanks to @wjmccaff for Clean 124060 and thanks to @jamsie for the VSF 124060. Both were excellent to deal with.
This is an honest "NO BIAS" review, as a member/buyer, and not a review from a Dealer who may favor one factory over the other because of perks or special deals.
This is a modest review taken with a cell phone camera. All photos were taken at the same time and are natural and unprocessed.
From the start
Both Clean and VSF cases are very close to Gen. On the wrist, no one would notice any case shape differences between the three.
Rehaut and Engravings / Crystal / Hands / Bezel action
Gen is Gen. Rehaut is highly polished and reflective. Engravings are beautiful and consistent. Crystal is wonderfully clear with AR on the full inside.
Clean rehaut is also very well polished and the engravings are sharp and well defined. Crystal is a bit cloudy.
VSF downfall is has always been their rehaut engravings and polishing. VSF crystal is very clear and much better than Clean's crystal.
VSF hands look better, edges are smoother,
with more 3D effect.
Dial printing and finish look really good on both Clean and VSF, but VSF seems to look much nicer: possibly due to the crystal.
Clean bezel action and sound is passable, but there is quite a bit of back-play and feels loose. Bezel click sound is loud and not gen like.
VSF bezel action and sound is extremely close to gen in both feel and sound. Better feel with no back-play. Sound is very gen like.
All 3
A look at all 3 to see
All 3 side view
crown guards
Crown guards on Clean are a bit softer and curved.
VSF has more of the uptick.
Less noticeable on the wrist or to most people, but the uptick on the crown guards is something RWI members, and experts will definitely notice.
Pip
Gen Pip is a prettier white, while remaining soft in appearance.
Clean Pip has a slight greenish tint.
VSF isn't the soft white, but it's very close to gen.
SEL
Both Clean and VSF are looking good, but the edge goes to Clean with tighter tolerances and a more solid look and feel.
Clasp
Clean and VSF did a fine job. Crown logo looks very well detailed.
Crown and winding
Crown when winding/unwinding feels gen like. Winding and hand movements were perfect.
Clean VR3230 movement was butter smooth. In fact, it almost felt too smooth.
VSF (dd3230) movement) felt excellent. But it seemed to give more resitance after winding 24 full rotations.
Bracelet / Clasp / Glidelock
Clean bracelet feels a tad bit better compared to VSF, but not as drastic as people make it out to be. Clean ffitting tolerances are spot on, with VSF having a bit of play. Both are acceptable. The Glidelock is where VSF shines. It's much smoother and is dramatically closer to gen in terms of feel and operation.
*Bonus - ZF bracelet
Special thanks to @jamsie for providing the ZF bracelt and providing his input:
ZF bracelet is very well finished and fitting tolerances are very tight. Glidelock is similar to Clean. Overall, my pick would be the ZF bracelet for the finishing and feel.
Lume
Lumes on Clean and VSF are strong, but VSF looks clearer and stronger thanks to the better crystal used by VSF.
Case marking
Here's the big one...
Clean is using 126610 case.
VSF is marked correctly: 124060.
No one would ever notice, but it's a something buyers should be aware of.
Clean case marking = 126610 = incorrect
VSF case marking = 124060 = correct
Observation
Now I'll be looking over the finer details with a loupe and going over how everything feels in hand and the overall feeling on the wrist.
Summary
The overall closeness between CLEAN & VSF 124060 with the genuine article is very impressive.
As for the review of which is better between Clean vs VSF, there is no "real' winner because each factory has their strong points. Clean has the better rehaut finishing and engravings, and a better bracelet. VSF has the better bezel action, crystal, glidelock, and better movement. That being said, VSF does have the correct 124060 case marking.
Honorable mention: Depending on your point of view, ZF's bracelet is quite possibly better than Clean's bracelet. VSF glidelock is the better than both Clean and ZF.
All in all, the perfect 124060 rep would be a combination of all the strongest parts from the various factories.
Best OOTB 124060,
My pick is VSF.
VSF the better bezel action and sound, more accurate crown guards, clearer crystal, smoother glidelock (which we all will use often), and the better movement. *Bonus to VSF for having the correct 124060 case markings. Even though no one will ever see the case markings, just knowing it's correct is a plus. But the most important aspect is something that can't be shown in photos: "How it Feels." There's something about the way the VSF wears that makes it feel better.
Remember, I'm doing this comparison directly against my genuine Rolex 124060, but my preferances may be different than yours.
It was my pleasure doing this comparison for RWI members. I've learned a lot here and it's only fitting to return the favor and help out. But as we always say: "There is no best rep."
Nice comparison review, thank you!
Does anybody know how often factories like Clean and VS update their watches to improve the quality? I'm talking about any improvement, rehaut, bezel, markers, case, bracelet, movement, etc.
Does anybody know how often factories like Clean and VS update their watches to improve the quality? I'm talking about any improvement, rehaut, bezel, markers, case, bracelet, movement, etc.
