1 by 1 comparison of 116610 LV hulk insert: Noob VS Genuine

[pecu]

Well, thank you for that answer

I agree that some pressure is essential to make things evolve. We just have to be a little careful, because too much pressure can make those things stop.

I had a hulk not a long time ago, and, honestly, I cant say that the noob bezel looks wrong by the pictures. I sold it because it had "unstable" colors. In some places I really liked the green color, and in others I really hated it. So, in my opinion a little difference in the bezel color wouldnt make a big difference - if the ceramic is good enough and shiny. I've never seen those new noobs in the flesh. What worries me about them is the grey color on the bezel numbers. I remember a few months ago people talking about those mods with grey paint, when the actual color on my gens were more cream.

Anyway, I wish I could see your comparison better. Does your camera shoot RAW pictures? If it does, can you share the original pictures in RAW? That way we can compare the colors much better. Also, pictures in controlled light is better, like in a white box.

Thanks!

 

[GrapeJam]

What worries me about them is the grey color on the bezel numbers. I remember a few months ago people talking about those mods with grey paint, when the actual color on my gens were more cream.


Thanks!

You're absolutely right about the platinum color. It's interesting it's sort of like a white-ish silver with a tinge of peach/champagne. Interestingly, I do find that the new Noobs manage to take on a similar color to this under sunlight, but they look pretty dull indoors


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[zocker4711]

:facepalm:

Guyz what are you talking about here???

First I must say Congrats to your nice GEN LV Bezel

i was one click away to grab an GEN LV Bezel too, but I Personally don't like the Green Color on the Ceramic.
The old Steel Insert (LV) looks much better in my eyes... But these is an Personally thinking.

About the Color btw GEN and Rep, what did you guys think? That the Far East People are all Blind? Are they everytime Stoned or Drunken when they do there work?

No! The Far East People can get the exactley Color if they want. But would they do an 100% exactley Color?
No! My Personally thinking is that they don't do 100% Copy's, because they wouldn't have trouble with the big GEN Manufactor Company's

So the Big Swiss Companys have Stores also in the Far East, and they sell there also Watches as they do in the rest of the World.

So let us play a little theoretical...

What would happend if they do an exactley 1:1 copy?

1. All the big bad A....holes came out of there holes buy the stuff from the Far East People and offer them as GEN Parts in the Bay for much more $$$
2. If the Copy is really sooooo good that you can't see an different, the Far East people wouldn't know which is now gen and which part is our own copy
3. The Big Manufactors have also People that of meat and blood and do you guys think they are not here in the Forums and read all the shit? If you guys believe that? Only we Rep Freaks are in the Rep Scene and also in the Gen Forums? Lol
Wake up if you think so...
4. If the Copy isn't detectable believe me the Swiss Companies comes with all there lawers and State People and catch these Copy Guys...

So there is an good Balance btw Rep and Gen... The Big Companies know that 50% of that People that are really deep into the Rep Scene come each day to there ADs and buy an GEN...

it start with the Standart rep, then it goes Franken and after that GEN...

So the Swiss Companies don't accept Replicas but they have an tolerance.

Also they need the Far East People to give them everytime new Quests... They Build an Steel Ceramic Mix and the Far East People try to copy it... If they get an good copy they start an new Poject... Some Watches they will never copy some they can't copy... Look for Exsample the new AP Diver Ceramic... The Rep looks Horrible... The GEN have one Color of White on all Parts the Rep Have 3 different Colors.
When the Far East People have an exactley color copy with other flaws then, the Swiss will have at this Time 2 new Watches out

So this is an Cat and Mouse Game... If the Big Companies don't accept the rep Scene it would be already closed by them.

So to say Noob didn't do an good job or H-Factory or j12 or or or... Isn't right... They do what they can to build as cheap as possible... How much people would buy an rep when they will be offered for 2000,-$ then 200,-$ ???

So I am sure they can do much better Work if they want... That they can do an 1:1 copy in all details there I am sure they can't... The Machines they use are for many Work and not as Rolex do. They Build an Machine of 1.000.000,-$ only for doing one dial... For Exsample...

So if you guys don't believe that? Ok... Why no one go to an Companie in Germany/Swiss for Exsample? They do Quality work as all the People say... There is no Copyright logo on the Ceramic Insert from Rolex...
Go to an Companie and ask them to make an 100% 1:1 Copy of the Insert... There would be Companies that can do that without probs.
they do also the DLC Coloring with Platinum 1:1

but don't ask for the Price if you hear them you will understand the Far East People...

Thomas (TC) have need how long for the right Color on his LV inserts 2-3Years?

This work isn't soooo easy as the most People think... If you Compare the Parts then as I do under Microscope you will know and learn why the GEN Parts are soooo expensive but why it worth every penny...

So don't put the fingers on the Rep Factory's they don't work only on one Watch... And they try to bring us updates after the Time... So we also know that the most updates from them are handled like this...

1 step forward = 10 Backward

So I have start with smoke an Quote Vote here and on RG but I can tell you it isn't sooo easy to find the right Contacts and direct lines to the Rep Factory's to workout an nice Project...

i hope that they read here our votes for the Rolex SubC

 

[vegasbaby]

Tough act to follow ^^

If this is a V4, wonder how the V5 noob bezel stacks up to gen


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[GrapeJam]

I'm not sure I would agree with you Zocker. I don't think the Chinese are too concerned about copyright infringement.

Also, even if the factories got the color of the green insert correct, the chances of them replicating the platinum numbers are slim to none. They could get a paint that is reasonably close - as they arguably already have - but no matter how close they get there will always be tells.

But anyway, after all, it's really about the movement, and realistically that will never be replicated to the same standard.


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[darktheko]

I really dont get what Zocker talks about.

Then how come noob and all the factories get their black color insert so correct? Why Rolex hasnt take any action in TC's products? Went too far...

 

[maxracingshox]

Zocker, I don't get what you say.
Do you mean the manufacturer screws up the green color on purpose, so he doesn't draw Rolex's attention on to him? Come on, you can't be serious...
Replicating parts isn't an issue by the way, as long as they don't print "Rolex" on it.
I have never heard anyone say, that rep makers screw up things in order not to get catched by the police, sorry

I just imagine the guys at the machines who make the bezel being like "Joe! Make the green a little darker, so the cops don't come!!" LMFAO Hahaha :laugh::thumbup:

 

[R2D4]

They do things to make the most amount money with the least amount effort. They do smaller batches so they can improve, move and cash out. That's it, simples!

 

[maxracingshox]

I absolutely agree!

 

[zocker4711]

They can get the Color right, but they wouldn´t do that... I am pretty sure...
If there will be an Absolut Perfect Insert they will kick them self in there A..

They can´t sell any newer Versions with updates... There are many things why they wouldn´t do...

And if the Parts are really 1:1 we´ll have many of these Bad guys as i said already... And the GEN Manufactors will sit on there Expensive Parts and don´t get them Sold anymore...

First problem is the mentality of the Far East Factorys... There come an guy show them an GEN Ceramic insert, tell them you must Produce this 1:1 and that for 1,-$
Good Milling CNC Machines etc are also Expensive in Far East... So the Factory say ok we Produce an Exsample... Then the Guy will get the Exsample of Factory A, B, C
Now the Guy think DAMN the Insert looks not soooo good, it isn´t really 1:1 in Color, Paint and and and... Now he tell the Factory´s that Insert suck you must do this and that...
And in the next Step he tell the Factory again that the Insert can only cost 1,-$
What would you do as Factory?
You give an Piss on that Guy... You´ll tell him take it or leave it...
But you want Build and sell these Rep Watch what do now? Aceppt it! Same as that what TD do with us...
Here are your QC Pics check it...
Tell an TD 5x Times to change the Watch for another... I am pretty sure after 3x change you will get an Refund and that´s it...

So that means the Factory´s get an GEN Part look at it, use an Color Table hold them on the Ceramic or let them Scan by an Machine and Press the Button (Produce) Finish... The result is that what we get then...
There is maybe an little little chance that you get an little update from the Factory...

Why you think the TD as Angus, Ryan and Co tells us everytime... We´ll see if and what they change and how the End Product will looks like...

The TD have no impact on production... Or they Spend a lot of $$$ in Labotory and Test Producing etc... But the Factorys have no Time for this shit...

I have talk with many TD´s also with Thomas already about to Build an SubC in Perfect Condition, this isn´t soooooo easy as it seems... This is really hard Conversation shit with the Factorys and don´t push them too much...
This is all an Sensible thing...

The other Point is as i already said to hold down the Producing costs... You can´t Build an absolut Perfect 1:1 Ceramic Insert without the right and Expensive Machines...

That´s the Point that Rolex and other Manufactors do as Quest...

If you see how Complex the Build of an GEN Ceramic Insert is, you´ll understand... This is not only an Ceramic that must be Painted... To Produce the GEN Insert there are many Steps needed...
The Main different start at the first Point...

To Heat up the Ceramic to that High Temperatur there are an Special Machine is needed... Rolex give an Piss on the Price of that Machine... They Build it or Buy it... They do the Calclation on the Complete Watch and Finish...
Now the Cermaic is Branded now we need an High Precision Diamond Drill for Cutting the Numbers in the Ultra Hard Ceramic... After that we need an really good DLC Coating Machine that Coat the Platinum Color on it...
This Platinum Color isn´t only an Color this is an Special Mix of real Platinum... After that the Complete Ceramic will be Polished with another Diamond Polish Machine... So all these Steps cost a lot of $$$

And now our Guy come to the Factory and tell them cool please Produce this for 1,-$

Rolex Spend over 1.000.000,-$ only for the Ceramic Insert Machines...

There will be Companies that have invested same $$$ in there Machines to Produce these and that, and now there come an strange Guy and ask "Please do an illegal Copy for me" LOL
If the Factories will Produce that and say we don´t know what that guy want, we have only Produce that for him.
It will not protect them not from the forfeit.

So you see these Thematic is really Complex...

I had an Company in Germany with them i was in Contact to Produce an Hublot 1:1 Case... If you disassemble an Hublot you´ll have absolutley no Serial engrave or Brand or anything...

First they told me ok that would be no Big problem, we´ll check that... Then i got an CAD of the Case etc and as they should start the Production, they told me we can´t do that Production.
They don´t told me why, but i am pretty sure they have check Manufactors etc.
If they had Build me the Cases i had get from them an 1:1 GEN Hublot Main Case. With that i had no probs to install GEN Screws etc.
I have Cancle these project it´s to Risky for both sides...

The Case was not for resale it was only for myself and 2 Friends... I want 10 Cases from them... The Minimum Production was it...

So that´s what i mean there is no Brand on the Ceramic... Grab an GEN Insert go to an Factory in Germany and tell them you need this for your own Watch that you Build... I am 100% sure, no one will Produce you these Exactley 1:1 Insert...
They will tell you "You have one in your Hand why you don´t buy it from that Company?"

Ahhhmmm yeah i don´t do because it´s from an Rolex Watch and i want you to Produce me that for cheaper and i need an 1:1 Copy LOL

So think about all that and read all the statements from the TDs and you will see that it goes this way... There are many Speculations about why and why not... But i´m sure that would be fit 95% why we don´t get an Perfect 1:1

 

[maxracingshox]

Zocker, the point is, that the insert is almost perfect. All they have to do is change the color to match gen specs. Is that a cost or labour intensive job??????
Then why are there so many perfectly gen spec panerai watches & parts?

 

[darktheko]

Is there someone else to recap his long talks? I just can not have a courage to read it all..

 

[Smoke]

Look the reason noob or any other factory aka lf,jf,BP has never got the correct green shade on the ceramic insert is because they don't know how to get the exact colour.no other reason, if they could get the correct colour they would

 

[zocker4711]

So the same Question I have ask myself... But I think the Answere is, there are a lot of Factory's out there that Produce Vintage or Modern PAM Cases... So look at the bay and you will find many good cases that have same Specs as the Noob Cases have. I think there are a lot more NoName Watches out with the style of these Case. As I know Panerai didn't do an Patent on the old Cases or not anymore. These Watches (Cases) was before for the Italian Marine... I don't wanna write down the Complete History of PAM
The same you will find with the Big Pilot Cases that IWC use... The Cases on the bay and the knowing Factory Rep Watches are near Perfect... But also not 100% 1:1

As you already said, the Reps are good but not 100% an 1:1 copy

It is maybe an Marginal different on some Watches, but if you check GEN vs Rep under an Microscope or an Lense you'll see the different.

So some People can live with that some not... That's why we have the Franken Scene... And every Modder who has Build an Franken will give me right, there is 95% no Rep out where you can change the Rep Part 1:1 for the Gen Part.

But if I read the Textes on TD sites it's all 100% interchangeable

So let us look at the Main Part on these Thread... These new Ceramic Inserts from the v5 Watches are an little update yes... Wohoooo 1 step forward but 10 backward on the Main Watch... Yeah an Amazing update! Lol

the Ceramic is now Perfect but the Case self is now totally Fantasy... So ask the Factory's and your self why they change for Exsample an good Case Noob SubC v3 (Double Engrave Rehaut) to v4 bad rehaut first worse case stuff to v5 bad rehaut and Absolutley bad Case...

 

[zocker4711]

They could smoke! But they didn't want or have no intuition on it or what ever...
They have also as every Car Paint Shop Color Scanners... Only thing they must do, is scan the color of the gen Insert and put these infos of mixture to there machines...

If they couldn't get an Part or Color of an Richard Mill Watch right, I understand this because they build the copy of Pics and Magazines etc. as they do long time ago... But they didn't get the right color of an Rolex???

If they really didn't know which Color they must use, why they don't use the same Color as you use for the Paint Mod? This Color is 99% close to the Gen and much much better as these White or Silver Mixture

 

[Smoke]

I personally don't belive they could bro.because if they could they would

 

[zocker4711]

Read this what Thomas write

http://blog.tc-sub.com/2014/10/tcs-2014-rolex-submariner-16610lv.html

It has take over an half year to get the right Color of the LV Insert... It's not possible? It is... But who did it? An guy in Calefornia and not in Far East... It's no efficient Buisness for them if they must check an half year or longer...
They want the Parts Cheap and fast...

 

[GrapeJam]

So let us look at the Main Part on these Thread... These new Ceramic Inserts from the v5 Watches are an little update yes... Wohoooo 1 step forward but 10 backward on the Main Watch... Yeah an Amazing update! Lol

the Ceramic is now Perfect but the Case self is now totally Fantasy... So ask the Factory's and your self why they change for Exsample an good Case Noob SubC v3 (Double Engrave Rehaut) to v4 bad rehaut first worse case stuff to v5 bad rehaut and Absolutley bad Case...

You said earlier that it was because the factories are afraid of infringing on IP laws/Patents by getting too close to the gen, I don't agree with that. The fear of IP/patent infringement in China is almost nonexistent.

As for getting the color right, I do believe Smoke is right in that they just haven't been able to, because sure you may have a color scanner but I suspect that it is more than just the color, it is the paint used and the quality of the ceramic. As you can see that the gen changes depending on the lighting, I believe this is likely why it is so difficult to replicate 1:1. I think they will manage to get there eventually, but I also think it's a lot more difficult than it seems.

As for going backwards on steps like the rehaut engravings, I think that is likely a matter of milking us for more money, they want to make sure they maintain hype and purchases by constantly coming out with new versions. They'll eventually bring back the proper rehaut engravings with the platinum painted bezel numbers and plenty of people will go nuts and sell their v4s and v5s on M2M and buy the new version.

 

[zocker4711]

No the difference btw step forward and backward is that they don't do Buisness with this one and only Factory...
They ask for the Prices and the cheapest Factory Win... Not more and not less... If you check Noob v1 and Noob v3 you'll see that they are able to produce the right rehaut engrave... Also the new GMT have the good rehaut...

if they use only color for there inserts as they do on the old batches it would be no big deal to get the color more right.,if you check an Anitas Paint Mod you'll see that these Color also fade and have these light effects.

this will happend btw the Particles that are in the Platinum Color.

But they didn't use Acrylic Color on the new Inserts... They did it same as Rolex did... The Color is DLCd... You don't believe? Try to scrap them out... I have try it with an needle no chance! The color is same DLCd as rolex do. Only the layer are much thinner... And they use silver...

So they try improvements... And if they get probs with Copy rights or not... I didn't know 100% but I am sure they can't do anything they want... Maybe in there own State but not on the ROW

 

[cosmicgate]

I will have to agree with zocker on his points, doesn't matter if they did it on purpose, and i believe if they really wanted to make a correct one, they could. If you are doubting China's capabilities on these, you are very very very very wrong my friend.

For all of you still doubting, all parts of a watch are made by different manufacturers, it would be illegal to have a single company to manufacture everything so closely to the originals, there are still laws in China, albeit sometimes you can bribe your way through it but it's getting tougher. Take the Rolex dial for example, the end product is actually a simple dial without the rolex logo, once the dial are made (without the rolex logo), they will get another factory to stamp the rolex logo onto the dial, THAT MY FRIEND IS HOW IT WORKS IN CHINA, you won;t get into trouble because technically the first factory just manufactures a generic dial (not considered patented because it doesn't have the rolex logo on it). The same goes to the buckle and the bracelet and everything else, and that is how these factories survived so long despite major crackdowns in counterfeit in China.

As a matter of fact, given the right budget, YOU CAN MAKE YOUR OWN STUFF IN CHINA. If you don't like that dial, bezel, pearl or whatever, just take a trip to Shenzhen, you will be amazed at how easy these things can be made. The factory don't care who you are, as long as you can meet their minimum order quantity, eg MOQ 1000 pieces, they WILL make it for you, then just take it to somewhere else to have that logo stamped on it and THAT'S IT, and THAT'S how all these zf, kw, noob, LF, x fac, whatever factories does their thang. You want to be a maker yourself, China made it possible for you at a fairly reasonable price.