Searching good Submariner Rep.

[nowak_jann]

Can anybody say something about the WM9? I mean, does anybody have one? Of course, it seems to be nice, from pics, but the most do...

any opinions from 'first hand'? Would be great!

Thanks a lot!

 

[tflgee]

If you are in search of the perfect rep forget it. They all have tells. But having owned 3 different gen Rolex, they are not perfect either. It's a watch!

I got my swiss ETA from Timeshop. I've got an Asian ETA from Trevor and I've got 21Js from both. My 21J from Fakey is hard to tell from my Asian ETAs as far as the sweep. But the Swiss ETA movement is ever so slightly smoother than those, and I honestly can't see any difference to my gen. The pearl and the crown guard are the biggest tells to me. Those you can spot from much farther away than the sweep.

 

[Fluffy]

Ragnar: what version did you buy? And who from, BK or WM9?

 

[nowak_jann]

@ Fakey and the other guys:

I know, there's no 'perfect' replica and I am not searching one!

But I hope, you can understand, that I'm not willing to spend hundrets of $ just to buy some reps from different stores to find a nice, good working watch... and I ordered several times, so you can't tell me, the watches have most the same quality, they don't...

...and my last 'swiss-made' was a joke! That's why I started this thread and I think, such problems are the reason for such forums like this one...

...in other words, I am not searching THE 1:1 rep but the most closest...

 

[fakemaster]

No one is telling you they are all the same. That is certainly not the case. What we're telling you is there are no Swiss reps. Also that you are probably expecting too much. You originally said you were disappointed in the watch you got from TS. So they suggested you take it to the next level and get a WM9. I didn't think that would be the solution which is why I alluded you might need a gen. And now that you've taken it further and said the TS piece is a 'joke' I am leaning even more towards that suggestion.

 

[nowak_jann]

to spend 300$ for a watch, where the movement is noisy and stuttering, the bezel isn't at it correct place (the middle/pearl is little bit too much to the left) and the bracelet brakes after 3 months of using (even not every day, maybe worn 2 times a week)...

...yes sir, that is a joke for me...

...and I saw good replicas in my life but here's no market in Germany where I can go to and see which rep I buy, so I have to find something on the internet and try to figure out, which expierences you guys made and which tips you can give me...

(excluding buying a gen, fakey )

 

[Ragnar]

Ragnar: what version did you buy? And who from, BK or WM9?

I have a Z series V2 WM9 that I purchased direct from WM9.

 

[fersi]

If the watch you bought from TS had all those problems, Why didn't you contact Mark and have them fixed?
Anyway.... As you have discovered ,i t is not always about how much you spend on a rep. You can get a very satisfying watch for less than 200 dollars or spend 600 or more and still be unhappy with the thing
If you have the money, by all means buy the Gen.
If you have plenty of money to spend on reps, then buy WM9 through BK
If you are a working man with plenty of bills (or an expensive girlfriend ) to pay, then a Noobmariner with Asia ETA clone is pretty good.
If you want an inexpensive but solid rep the Fakemariner might be your ticket.
You can minimize your chances for dissapointment by choosing a recommended dealer that DOES NOT dropship and sends good photos of the actual watch in advance.
Just my two cents..... good luck!

 

[donaldejose]

Been there, done that

About a year ago I went through the same "good sub" search you are now doing. I read all the boards and bought samples of each so I could see these "flaws" myself with the watch in my hand; just as you would do if they were all in a store where you could compare them side by side. I have a WM9, about 10 Noobmariners, and more than 20 Fakemasters. I have purchased from Eurotimez, Fakemaster, Hont, Time4Direct, Timeshops, etc. I have 21J movements and ETA movements. I do not have a genuine Rolex and never would buy one. For the cost of a genuine you can own 15 good reps and enjoy switching between them. If you are going to enjoy watches, I like to have many watches to enjoy rather than just having one genuine.

Here is what I learned:
1. If you want to examine a watch under magnification for every detail variation you will be able to find so called "flaws" or "tells" on all reps (and variations on all gens). BUT, no one looking at the watch on your wrist is able to see it well enough to find them. How many times do you take your watch off and hand it to a person who pulls out a loupe to examine it under magnification? Never happened to me or anyone I know. Even people wearing a genuine Rolex did not know enough to hold one of my reps in their hands and see the "flaws." Owners of gens don't know their watch (and all its previous versions or factory "runs") well enough to know whether or not a variation they see on your watch, if they can even see one, was one of the factory variations or not. All this effort to find the "perfect sub," beyond being able to eliminate the "junk," is really not necessary.
2. As to the "slow beat" 21J v the "correct beat" ETA; I have two noobmariner GMTs off the same assembly line: one with the slow beat 2836 movement and one with the correct beat (same speed as Rolex) ETA movement. I hand both watches to people and give them a loupe and ask them to tell me all the differences they can find. They study both watches and do find minor variations in the dials. They DO NOT notice the difference in the sweep of the second had until I tell them. It just is not that noticable. Once they study both side by side, they can see the difference; but not until I tell them it exists. No one can see this difference while the watch is still on your wrist. So I don't worry about a "slow beat" movement anymore. Also, the idea that a genuine Rolex has a perfectly smooth sweep is a false idea. They don't. They aren't any smoother than ETAs.
3. I never tell anyone my Rolex watches are genuine. If anyone seems very impressed with my watch, I tell them it is not genuine and I would never buy a genuine. They seem puzzled so I tell them the price of a genuine of the model I am wearing and approximately what I paid for my replica. To be able to find a quality replica which 99.9% of people cannot distinguish from the genuine for about one tenth the price of the genuine is the REAL impressive thing. Spending 5k USD for a watch is not impressive. FINDING an quality replica of that 5K watch for less than $200.00 USD is the real impressive thing. Everyone I have ever talked to about this says they want the $200.00 watch that looks like the $5,000.00 watch. No one has ever said they want to pay $5,000.00 for a watch that looks just like the $200.00 watch on my wrist.
5. Fakemaster is the best. He is the "master" and the overall quality of his watches cannot be beaten in the replica market. When I give people a choice between a noobmariner and a fakemaster they always choose the fakemaster because you can feel the quality difference when you wind the watch and move the bezel. I suggest you read Fakey's Corner on this board.

CONCLUSION: If you simply must obsess over every visual detail get a WM9 but you will then be spending something like 600 or 700 USD and it still won't be "perfect." For the same money you could purchase three or four or five fakemaster watches and enjoy switching between many different watches rather than just having one. By the way, I have a fakemaster Omega SMP and a PO. They are excellent reps. So you could have many different (but slightly imperfect) quality reps for the price of one imperfect WM9 rep. It all depends upon how obsessed you are with visual details people won't see or how afraid you are someone might learn that you are smart enough to buy reps rather then gens.

 

[sricenbaw]

donaldejose
Thanks for that info! cant wait to purchase a watch from Fakemaster

 

[madcatlancelot]

Instead of searching a good sub, why not try a good Seadweller (SSD lite) from Trevor? Got it for $108 including the shipping costs, here's the link. http://www.trevorwatch.info/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=5_15&products_id=1226

 

[trailboss99]

Even in a gen Rolex you can see the second hand beating if you are looking at it from a foot away and concentrating. A "swiss" ETA is just as smooth as a gen Rolex movement as it has the same beat rate so you really can't get a smoother sweeping second hand. Believe it or not the genuine watch actually moves at 8 ticks per second as well.

What he said. A gen Rolex beats at 8 "ticks" per second, it is not a perfectualy smooth sweep. Both the "Swiss" and clone China ETAs beat at the same rate as the gen Rolex.

I would go for the clone ETA like T4D was talking about by the way. You can never realy be sure it's a Swiss ETA, less and less of them are available and the clone is now days just as good anyway.



Col.

 

[nowak_jann]

If the watch you bought from TS had all those problems, Why didn't you contact Mark and have them fixed?

Even Mark wouldn't change the movement, I think, the bpm are corect for this movement, the position of the pearl nervs but I can live with and the bracelet I changed on my own.

Why I didn't send it back to Mark?

1. The shipping costs to China are about 60EUR.

2. Shipping back would be with EMS for low. The problem is, the german partner of EMS takes every time some handling costs about 30EUR and sometimes the customs take a look at the package and when they find the watch you can imagine what would happen.
Another delivery method would cost another 40$.

So, the risk and money isn't worth it but it's a pitty to have a watch for 300$ with such problems! (oh, I forgot to mention the broken ceramic bezel after 2nd day, I had to order from another supplier because Mark couldn't send one)

...If you want to examine a watch under magnification for every detail variation you will be able to find so called "flaws" or "tells" on all reps (and variations on all gens). BUT, no one looking at the watch on your wrist is able to see it well enough to find them....

...Also, the idea that a genuine Rolex has a perfectly smooth sweep is a false idea. They don't. They aren't any smoother than ETAs....

1. I won't watch under magnification for every detail, just want to have a nice rep! And I don't care about others, what they say or see. I am searching this watch for ME.

2. Maybe a gen ETA has the same sweep like a gen Rolex but that would mean, the movement in my "swiss-rep" is a clone! Not nice...
I had gen Rolex on my wrist, my brother is waering actually a GMT II, so I know the sweeping of gens... and it's a complete other league then my actuall "swiss"...

@madcatlancelot:
thanks, I am already in contact with Trevor and some other guys.

@all:
This seems to get in wrong direction. Nearly everybody ist telling me to stop searching a good rep. That was not what I asked for...
Also saying there's no difference in the bpm I can not understand when I actually see it with my own eyes! (without magnification). Or my 'swiss-rep' has a bad clone.

And please don't tell me to buy a gen! A already wrote, I saw some good reps in my life and I am just wondering where they are from...

 

[trailboss99]

If you want a WM9 buy it from BK's Watch Garage here on RWI.
He does an extra level of QC and is usualy even cheaper than WM9. He also does a noob with mods but TBH there is nothing wrong with the good ole' noob.

I can tell you mate, there is no difference between the sweep of a gen ETA and the Asian clone. They are the same MVT, exactly.
Both sweep at the same rate, 8 ticks per second. If you buy a Swiss ETA BTW, chances are good you are geting either a very old stock MVT or a reco'd unit, not new. Better off to buy the clone and if it dies get a new ETA from Ofrei or CousinsUK.


Col.

 

[trailboss99]

If you want a WM9 buy it from BK's Watch Garage here on RWI.
He does an extra level of QC and is usualy even cheaper than WM9. He also does a noob with mods but TBH there is nothing wrong with the good ole' noob.

I can tell you mate, there is no difference between the sweep of a gen ETA and the Asian clone. They are the same MVT, exactly.
Both sweep at the same rate, 8 ticks per second. If you buy a Swiss ETA BTW, chances are good you are geting either a very old stock MVT or a reco'd unit, not new. Better off to buy the clone and if it dies get a new ETA from Ofrei or CousinsUK.


Col.

 

[donaldejose]

The "swiss" movement you have must not be a real ETA or even a copy ETA if you can see the difference in the sweep between your movement and a gen. Real ETA and Copy ETA should have the same beat rate as the gen and both second hands should move the same 8 times each second. You should not be able to see a difference. If you can, then something must be wrong with the movement in your rep. It sounds to me like you should just try a BKLM-WM9 replica. You should have the greatest chance of being happy that way.

 

[tflgee]

The "swiss" movement you have must not be a real ETA or even a copy ETA if you can see the difference in the sweep between your movement and a gen. Real ETA and Copy ETA should have the same beat rate as the gen and both second hands should move the same 8 times each second. You should not be able to see a difference. If you can, then something must be wrong with the movement in your rep. It sounds to me like you should just try a BKLM-WM9 replica. You should have the greatest chance of being happy that way.

I have an Asian ETA in my LV and I can see a difference in the sweep between it and my Gen. However I have a "so called" Swiss ETA in another rep sub and I can't see any difference between it and my gen. There is obviously a WIDE range of quality in these movements. Some are silky smooth and others are slightly more jittery. If a person is that concerned though they should buy a gen and be done with it. You can buy a nice used gen and it probably will be worth what you bought if for 5 or 10 years from now.

 

[fakemaster]

Look let's roll it back a bit and review. You asked for advice. Based on the criteria you laid out you were told to get a WM9 to which you replied 'puuuuh'

T4D has come in twice with a lower priced option. KBH detailed some differences. You don't seem interested in either option. And as you requested everyone else has given you their 'experiences' with different movements. You don't seem to agree which is fine. So unless I'm missing something, at this point the only option appears to be get a gen.

 

[nowak_jann]

I have an Asian ETA in my LV and I can see a difference in the sweep between it and my Gen. However I have a "so called" Swiss ETA in another rep sub and I can't see any difference between it and my gen. There is obviously a WIDE range of quality in these movements. Some are silky smooth and others are slightly more jittery

Thank you very much... I thought I would be the only one...



@Fakey:
1. I saw a video of one of your Sub's on YouTub*. That was working quite nice.

2. I am glad, that this thread had so much answers and views, seems to me, that there are much more guys with a similar problem, at least, searching a nice rep!

3. My conclusion: I will try the Submariner from Eurotimez (aka Noobmariner, right?) with gen ETA. Read lot of good opinions about them and the support is very good.

When that doesn't work (and I will not give the fault to Eurotimez), I will try one from BK/WM9.

As KBH told me to buy from BK and I checked the prices, of course I was wondering, when everybody was writing at this forum, how happy you can be with a rep for 240$ and I was wondering about my 'swiss'...

At least, maybe the WM9 Sub is waiting for me... :cute:
but of course I would be happy when the noobmariner will be good...

:notworthy:

 

[nielest]

Instead of searching a good sub, why not try a good Seadweller (SSD lite) from Trevor? Got it for $108 including the shipping costs, here's the link. http://www.trevorwatch.info/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=5_15&products_id=1226

This looks like a beautiful specimen, and for that price!! WOW