Please explain "cartel dealers"

[Dr.Verylong]

I read so much about 'cartel dealers' or 'the cartel'. I searched through the forum but couldn't find any satisfying explanation.

So are "cartel dealers" from a 'real' cartel or are they just a bunch of dealers that stuck together to form a monopoly of some sort and rip off their buyers?

TIA
Dr.verylong

 

[Migge]

Please, correct me if I am wrong on this but the "cartel" was mainly two dealers:
Josh and Andrew -> ( still around on other foras )

they very putting a lot of pressure on all the other dealers to raise their prices. They were also selling watches with supposed eta movements that didnt have theese movement in them, just tired old seagull movements.

I cant tell you much more then that because I was not around when this all happend.

They were at one time trusted dealers on this board.

I am sure that the more experienced members will fill in more...and maybe correct me...

Cheers
Mike

 

[guru]

+1 Mike

we see the same happening right now, looks like the new Sinn release can only be ordered from the cartel, they are trying to keep up the high price

 

[sconehead]

Can T4D, Hont or PT not get the Sinn yet?

 

[b16a2]

Historically it was King, Angus, Andrew and Joshua who were rumoured to be part of a cartel....

 

[guru]

Can T4D, Hont or PT not get the Sinn yet?

No for Hont and no for Mark, Pt is owing me an answer since 3 days...his comment:
Josh and Andrew have put a hold on it, I may have to pay a premium to get it

 

[R2D4]

Can T4D, Hont or PT not get the Sinn yet?

Hi Sconey,

Great Question! Mr. Robert, what say you?

 

[sconehead]

Do the other boards know about this? Mind you, let's not bother...we all know what happened last time, not worth the aggro informing them imo... :|

edit: does the inter-board thing still exist? Perhaps it could be brought up there...

 

[andygt]

I've got an account at RG but have never posted there.
Shall we see how long it takes for me to get banned?

 

[watchbuff]

The cartel boys "think" they got a lock on the hot watches. The truth is they can be had if you look in the right places. I have come to know a couple sources that get the same crap they get and not pay their premium along with their BS QC they push.

Nice avatar..Voltan rules.

 

[Time4Direct]

I would think I can get the Sinn can't see any reason why not.
The only reason I could think I would be unable to get it would be that I don't have enough call for it to justify buying enough to get a competitive price
I have heard these reports of Josh and Andrew stopping people from buying I can say now as I have said before I have never experienced it myself.

If of course which I very much doubt Josh has put his name to the whole production then of course that would be different but I find that to be inconceivable given the amount a factory would knock out in a day someone would need to buy 5000+ pieces which for a brand with a limited appeal wouldn't be viable.

They may of course have bought the 1st sample run of a couple of hundred but that's business nothing wrong with that. I have done it a 100 times myself.

Thing to remember is everything any dealer has is available to others the fact that some are better at sourcing than others is all part of the game. An example of this is the recent UN that Hont is said to have given his gen to reproduce now you would think that would make it exclusive to Hont and as is apparent it's not had Hont ordered the whole production run he would then have had it to himself at least until another factory copied it .

But to buy complete production runs you are talking big big money certainly in excess of $100K which on one model untried is an enormous risk.
I don't know for sure but I think you will find that Josh and Andrew work out of the same wholesaler in GZ in this event they could of course put pressure on the guy not to supply anyone in the same line of business with an item.

But that is a small fish in a very big sea someone else will have it and be happy to supply you so I can't understand with most of the dealers being in GZ why they are unable to find these items

 

[coop]

Thank you T4D. I have always thought the market was to big for even 4 dealers to control.

You have also confirmed in the past my thoughts on the size of the market.

 

[Pix]

Which is SURE is that so far nobody can get me the Sinn rep.
I got an interesting offer from Mark (understand far under Jandrew's prices), but when he tried to get the watch from the factory, it was suddendly not possible anymore. He has no reason to tell me BS, he's been my (almost) exclusive supplier for 2 years, so I believe what he says.
Understand : he knows where to get it, quoted it, but can't supply it.

I won't pay premium to get the Sinn. Prefer to spend my money somewhere else... or wait 1 or 2 monthes.

 

[hk45ca]

they put pressure on the wholesaler to not sell it to the other dealers. if they do, they have to sell it at a price so high they can't under cut jandrew inc. prices. they have done it to ruby many times. she has gone to other sources before and as soon as jandrew sees her selling it at a lower price the shit hits the fan at the wholesaler. they either get cut out or their buy price gets raised dramatically so they have no choice other than to raise their prices. we have been through this many times.

 

[daytona4me]

Have not stopped me from buying Sinn.
You can get around any "pressure" J&A can put up, sometimes it costs a lttle more.
And yes, they have used pressure to disrupt dealers business.

 

[Time4Direct]

Yes that s all well and good that the wholesaler that Josh uses is under pressure from Josh this happens in every business in the world. The thing is the wholesaler used by Josh will not be the only source of supply there will be many others .
The only reason that they would have to use one particular wholesaler is because they need credit otherwise with cash they could go to 20 different places and buy

 

[sconehead]

So based on what Roberts just told us Josh has more than likely bought the first production run regarding the Sinn and his only possible leverage on other smaller dealers is by putting pressure on the wholesaler. Am I summizing this correctly?

@Robert, you've stated before that the business generated by the forums is small potatoes in the bigger picture of things and I have no reason to disbelieve you. Just how big an operation are the Josh/Andrews of this world overall in your opinion?

I understand if you don't want to hazard a guess or divulge anything that you know for sure... :wink:

 

[Cloudhopper]

Interesting topic.

Robert thank you for providing insights like this.
It's rather unusual to get a "behind the scenes" look and you give us a glimpse once in a while, talking business and numbers. Really do appreciate it.

Would really be interesting to know how small the fora really are in the big picture of things.

 

[R2D4]

Here are the local buyers at the beach. They will head to the market to buy reps after a day in the sun. They dwarf our numbers. :wink:

 

[hk45ca]

well, the numbers on the forums are big enough they are here and having to put up with buyers that are 1000 times more savvy/bitchy than the rest. if we weren't an important part of their business they wouldn't be here. they would pass right by us and sell to their millions of other customers that don't know come here from sickum now wouldn't they. :wink: