DEALERS RATINGS - The results are in

[36anne63]

tough crowd here. This poll should only affect a small percentage of any dealers sales either negatively or positively. If ppl are being swayed, it's probably the newbies that aren't reading the rest of the thread and just going off of the poll results without any past experience with any particular dealer. .

And the above is exactly what happens, How many threads start with " which dealer has the best xxxxx " , " Who is the best dealer? "
Not all newbies take this as a hobby, it`s hit and run. They come in ask a question or 2 and go and order. They don`t read hundreds of dealer ratings in the dealer section like I did. They don`t e-mail dealers first and ask what they need to know.
Jeez we had a newbie who wanted to get his money back because he didn`t get a tracking number within 48 hours.
I asked PT about his ratings because I have had nothing but good communications and he does what he promisses.

Anne-marie

 

[rooster133]

take it as an educational experience and understand that a lack of interaction on RWI with potential customers will cause others to not recommend him... there is more to being a preferred dealer than providing a watch in a timely manner... that is the only thing that should be taken from this poll...

Exactly, well said!! Particularly regarding the 'educational experience'.

To be sure, PT's defensive reaction to the results is typical. I have seen board members and senior managers from large corporations taking similar NPS results in exactly the same way. And then they would go home and ponder why their businesses are experiencing negative growth. Or worse still, they would start throwing millions into advertising to 'buy growth', rather than going back to basics. Ultimately these results are a wake up call for the dealers in the bottom half. Simple as that. Stick to business as usual and I can guarantee next time I run this you'll still be there. That is, assuming you're still in business or on RWI. Wake up guys: the bar is getting higher and higher.

 

[Precious Time]

If a poll like this was taken from an accurate sample like i mentioned before... 100 people who have purchased reps from all dealers, then i would not have a problem with it at all.

All the long term members know my reputation and would most likely look at this thread, laugh, then scrap it. The problem i see, is a newbie is likely to read the first post and not flick through the entire 10 pages and will be mislead by this.

I have already had 3 newbies emailing me refering to this thread confused. What would take normally 2 to 3 emails to close a deal, Im now having to explain what im explaining here, which means a further 2 to 3 emails being sent back and fourth.

I haven't been posting as much lately, as my time is going into developing my new website which is going to launch next month.

I have been on this forum since it started, and i promoted it a lot by being the first one to introduce exclusive raffles only to this board when it opened, gave away a number of freebies, and held a number of competitions to encourage members to join. Back in the day when Watchtrader was around, i pretty much pulled the full crowd from that board onto this board.

Those who are a member of the other boards will see, my posts more or less mirror the posts on this board, so its not like i have neglected this board. However my priority at the moment is to update my new web, and at the same time ensure customer orders are dealt with as priority.

To see non accurate and misleading thread like this, just makes you think ??????

If this thread remains up... i would at least suggest to modify the title to something which would at encourage users to read dealer review section first, prior to using this thread as a guideline.

 

[rooster133]

PT: I understand your concerns. But I still don't buy it. And I know because even my personal dealings with you haven't been stellar, though that's not relevant here. Mind you, you're a nice person to deal with, and as I said before, you're an asset to the EU rep community. But just look at the poll as an indicator that you have to raise your game. Everything else has been explained already. If you want to run a more "accurate" poll, be my guest. That might require logging into RWI a little more often, which you are encouraged to do to strengthen your relatiopnship with your current and potential customers. You don't believe the table is a reasonable reflection of the strength of your customer base? Try this: turn the table upside down and argue that the ones that are currently at the bottom should be at the top. Now, which table would make more sense? The one we currently have, or the one upside down? If you'd go with the latter just as much as the former, then you're right - the results are useless as the distribution of scores is random. If you wouldn't... well, you get my point.

 

[Precious Time]

I stick to what i said before... Even if i turn the tables upside down, or sideways, it would still be misleading based on the formation of the poll.

 

[rooster133]

I stick to what i said before... Even if i turn the tables upside down, or sideways, it would still be misleading based on the formation of the poll.

It's your prerogative. But as your signature says, time is precious... I wouldn't waste any more of it. I wish you all the best anyway, and I mean it.

 

[hooligan]

...If this thread remains up...

I'll ask again, based upon what grounds would you have this thread removed? It is based on *opinion* of the members of this forum that chose to participate in the polls. It breaks no forum rules that I can see.

What right would we have to take this thread down?


I certainly understand that you are dedicating your time to standing up your own website (I would be doing the same thing, if I were you), and as such, don't have much time to spend on the fora.

There is already a disclaimer in red font in the first post advising people to do other/more research into their chosen dealer. I'm not really sure what else there is to be done?

 

[Precious Time]

Hi Hooligan

When i say "If this thread remains up..."

I'm saying that the admins on the board may see dealers perspective on this thread too, and realise the dealer review section posts more accurate informaton regarding dealers, and this thread may mislead newbies.

Hence they may put a vote amongst the admins whether it is wise to remove it or not. I have voiced my opinion as a dealer, and im sure other dealers would voice there opinons also if they knew this thread was about. Some dealers who dont speak english that well may not understand the thread completely.

Either way its not my decision, If it stays up... it stays up. I just hope the newbies have better judgement, and Admins see the other perspective of things.

I wont be commenting more on this thread as i dont wont to sound like a broken record, and as rooster said... Time is Precious.

PT

 

[R2D4]

PT, I have heard you and the other dealers voice an opinion on this. When this thread went live I think you will see I sided with the idea. I want all of you dealers to know, you have a voice and I understand that without your support our forum would'nt be what it is today. So yes I am open minded to all views and the comments made here on this thread are noted.

Thanks for speaking your voice.

R2

 

[Pix]

Well it was unavoidable to have such discussions. And I understand that dealers (like Pamfried or Precious Time in this thread) feel it's unfair.

But are the ratings in their respective sections more reliable ?
Who is posting there actually ? Only a FEW of all those who had a transaction.
Also, members have very different approaches of what a transaction should be : two persons could have a totally different opinion on the very same transaction.
No answer within 4 days ? Some are happy with that, some see this as unacceptable.
Delivery within 4 weeks ? Good or bad ?

There's one thing that definitely annoys me : anyone who dares to issue a negative feedback immediately gets answers like "he will come through, be patient", "you're expecting too much, that's an illegal business anyway", "you're not at Wallmart" etc.... OK. But the cash is real cash, and the money dealers make out of this "hobby"? is real money. I hope for them they have a financial advantage out of their activity, not just providing "a service for the community".

And how many complain without naming the dealer, as they are worried of being bashed or *worse* that their pending transaction will never be settled due to they made the problem turn public.

In the end, testimonials on a webstore or in the sales sections are NOTmore accurate that this very poll : both are ONE way of making's one mind. It's not meant to tell THE TRUTH, it's one indicator, nothing else.

Just my 2 cts.

I voted for Watcheden and Timesshop, and against Silix and Ruby. I have done business with all of them, also with Trevor, Trusty, Narikaa, Sashwatch (before he disappeared), with Jakub (who everyone was praising, including me), River, Fakey, Josh ans soon D4M Honestly, I'm not surprised about the results, although I have no idea about how Pamfried and Puretime really are. That's why I even never considered voting for or against them.
In the facts, if out of 10 voters 5 are unhappy for any reason, I tend to believe that there is something wrong, whoever voted, whatever the sample of voters are.

Incidentally, those having "good" results are those who are very active on the boards and seem to have the largest amount of transactions, compared to how often members talk about them.

What about Ruby and Sillix ? :?:

In the end, the only objective way would be a rating system like on *bay, where the communication, fast shipment and honesty in the item descriptions would be gauged.

Maybe these polls should be pinned and not limited in the time, and after a few monthes we would have a more objective result.

 

[rooster133]

You make some very good points, Pix. Thanks for chiming in.

I would agree on an eBay-type system only if it were anonymous. Otherwise it would turn into as much of a joke as it is on eBay. As for an ongoing poll, or something along those lines, I think that's not a bad idea at all. It would have to be designed carefully and with everyone's input of course.

You're dead right. The votings in the respective sections are not more accurate and some dealers like to fool themselves into believeing they are, because such comments tend to come predominantely from happy buyers. First, anonymity brings honesty out of people. And that's actually good news for PT and the others, as they gain a much more accurate insight into what's going on (i.e., they see things as they really are). It's sad that some dealers see this as a threat rather than an opportunity for improvement. Second, do we need to buy a watch to be able to recommend a dealer? Would this really be a reflection of reality? Because I tell you what: if any seller pisses a buyer off even before he orders from them, that buyer will sure tell others. In the old days we used to say that on average we tell 14 people... I'd say in this hobby it's much more. And all of that happens behind the scenes, without the seller knowing. PT's reaction is symptomatic of this kind of myopia. And even now that it's there in plain sight for him to see, he either fails to see it or he relies on methodological grounds to call foul. Which is the most typical, and saddest, response. Sometimes you need a truly inspired and strong person to say "gee, thank you for bringing this to my attention. I didn't know this was going on behind my back. I'll do something about it". Now, a dealer down the list who comes out and says that would have my next purchase. He's showing me he cares, as opposed to refuting the evidence a priori because it doesn't match his expectations. If in my work I get any kind of negative feedback, I never ever question the source or the method. I address the problem. Just in case the problem is there. Then if it's really not there, even better.

 

[fakemaster]

Forum polls are as anonymous as a poll can be. If no one had posted any comments it would have been an empty thread with votes. Actually the fact it is anonymous is why the results were such a surprise to many. People generally DON'T say what they really think on the open forum for fear of being flamed. That's certainly true at RG and RWG to some degree. Just go over and drop a bomb on Josh or ET and see what happens if you don't believe me.

 

[hk45ca]

personally i don't think this thread is anymore misleading than "swiss made eta", "1 to 1", "ultimate", "sapphire crystal" and the rest of those bullshit marketing terms that are thrown around by the dealers. there are many levels of quality when it comes to the asian 7750 but i haven't seen one single dealer say what grade of movement that is in a individual watch listed for sale. "real ceramic" bezel insert? that isn't true at all but that is what we are told. this hobby is stuffed full of misleading statements.

is the bar getting raised? absolutely, that happened when the prices were raised and it isn't going to stop as long as the prices stay like this. i said this would happen when the prices started going up and up and up to stupid levels and the quality stayed the same. i said the customers would expect better service and higher quality products right along with those price increases. i stopped buying reps altogether and started buying gens because of it.

 

[hooligan]

Well, again, this thread breaks no rules, so I'll not advocate taking it down (although, I'm far from the ultimate authority about what stays and what goes!).

I can certainly empathize with the dealers' perspectives on this, and the rating system is by everyone's admission, not foolproof. However, I have yet to see any system that is. Even an eBay-style system can be misleading/manipulated, not to mention the forum software doesn't support it, IIRC.

If you feel you've received the pointy end of the stick moreso than other dealers, I encourage you to start a thread soliciting the experiences/opinions of all your satisfied customers as a means to counteract this thread.

Thanks, PT. Agree or disagree, I really enjoy seeing our dealers participate in discussions such as this!

Hi Hooligan

When i say "If this thread remains up..."

I'm saying that the admins on the board may see dealers perspective on this thread too, and realise the dealer review section posts more accurate informaton regarding dealers, and this thread may mislead newbies.

Hence they may put a vote amongst the admins whether it is wise to remove it or not. I have voiced my opinion as a dealer, and im sure other dealers would voice there opinons also if they knew this thread was about. Some dealers who dont speak english that well may not understand the thread completely.

Either way its not my decision, If it stays up... it stays up. I just hope the newbies have better judgement, and Admins see the other perspective of things.

I wont be commenting more on this thread as i dont wont to sound like a broken record, and as rooster said... Time is Precious.

PT

 

[exeekias]

Forum polls are as anonymous as a poll can be.

Not quite true. As a former admin on a PhBB board, I know that admins are able to see who voted in a poll (and they can change the votes too ). Whether or not they did either is another matter (I would guess a big NO on both counts).

Other than that comment I am doing my best (and failing utterly) to stay completely out of this thread. I am on the fence as to whether or not this rating thread was a good idea. I can understand and I agree with the reasoning behind it but essentially it ends up attempting to quantify subjective judgments of quality of service. Since it is a ranking of dealers who are all approved by RWI, I would think by extension we can assume all of them meet some minimum of reliability. So dealer x, who scored toward the bottom, might get somewhat unfairly tarred as "bad" when in reality the rating is saying dealer x is "good, but not quite so good as dealer y". I did not vote in the poll, but incidentally the results mirror pretty closely my impressions of the dealers I have dealt with--or attempted to deal with--so far.

 

[PESCADOR]

Why don't I see Trusty Time in there? I hope Silix is watching this! Man, I am fed up with them!

 

[hooligan]

You don't see Trusty Time in there because this poll was limited to the trusted dealers here at RWI only. There are lots of dealers that were not included in the poll because of this parameter.

 

[daytona4me]

Well exeekias,
As you saw in my posts, I asked to be removed from the figures (votes).
If you look in the first thread where the votes were tallied for Recommended people, I tried to remove my name from there,
Simply edit the post poll options. Please see the results, any attempt to manipulate the poll resulted in all votes being removed.

If RWI knew how to see who voted, who in the hell would want to sit around counting votes. I guess it's like your computer
in the fact that even though you delete something it is never truly gone. I'm sure at some sub-atomic level there is a record
of who did what but it does mean that we know how to look at it, have any interest in looking at it or gives a crap about who
voted for whom.

I dont know what would posses you to throw a comment out like that. It does nothing but spread paranoia and fuel conspiracy.

Would it help if I said that all dealers "could" share information with each other and the price the quoted a customer
to ensure that they receive top dollar, or to say that if one of our dealers laptops or computers were stolen or seized
by their government all of their customers (YOU) data that is on it could be turned over to authorities, etc..

If you know code the way you likely do, you know the sky is the limit on the things you could probably manipulate,
the reason things display on this forum is because of code, and if that is the case, you can make whatever look anyway
you want it to.

The only thing you have left at the end of the day is you can trust in someones ethics and integrity.. or not.

@ Precious Time, I'm interested to see your website and the software you used. I hope to see you around here more
as we have a very large contingent of EU members (please see the thread I quoted earlier in this thread). I refer
tons of them to you when asked as many others do.

More good news is that you will be able to post html code in your forum again real soon..
Let us know if there is anything we can help you with.

 

[exeekias]

I knew I should have just stayed away from this thread.

Maybe you don't have that mod on this board. But no point in keeping that secret, and no point in pretending it can't be done. I guess my assertion that I thought everything was above board with the poll wasn't strong enough. So: as far as I can tell and believe, the admins here go over and above to be fair, open and honest. They all seem to be people of great integrity and trust. I thought that was part of the genesis of this board. And yes trust is exactly what we all have in the end here, between admin/user and more importantly between seller/buyer.

In the end, no matter how many polls, ratings, reviews, etc. there are, it's a leap of faith when you send your money that you get what you ordered. And on the flip side, it's a leap of faith for a seller that he's not going to get screwed somehow by a dishonest customer. And there are factors in every transaction that are out of everyone's control. That most people get what they ordered in a timely manner from all the dealers here says a lot about the board admins and who they allow to be recommended dealers.

I am really going to try and stay out of this thread now.

 

[36anne63]

Can we have a new dealer rating poll ?

In the lines of 4 a year or something, Maybe some issues were dealt with, I know for sure we have dozens of new forum members who didn`t get to vote.

Is that an idea ?

Anne-marie