Why go Gen ?

[Cooldaddyfunk286]

The one biggest argument in why go gen, which was mentioned earlier is if your a gold guy. Personally I LOVE yellow gold, but I would never buy a gold rep. What turned me on so much about the new V9 and ARF subs was the fact that the material was the same, 904l. That's what REALLY got me. But as much as I like the SS rolex, my Grail Rolex would be a gen full yg, champagne dial president. And I'm not sure I could be satisfied with a rep of this. But I may be WAY wrong if I were to handle this rep.

 

[goldman555]

As has been pointed out reps used to be really bad and easy to tell the difference. Technology is advancing one thing people don't understand about China is that they are world experts in 3D scanning and 3D printing combine that with a completely different attitude to intellectual property and as I said in my previous post it's a matter of when not if the stainless steel bubble will burst.

It is almost child's play to 3D scan the parts of a movement then manufacture them en masse with modern 3D printing technology and computer controlled production equipment. When you are paying for a genuine watch you are paying for all that fancy advertising and sponsorship of premium events. You are paying for boutiques in the fancy addresses around London, New York, Tokyo, Paris, Hong Kong, Dubai et cetera et cetera et cetera

If you buy a German watch from one of the major manufacturers you get far more value for money and many of these things just cannot be replicated easily because of the quality.

If you ask me the Pepsi GMT is at the top of the market. Ironically this was the first Rolex I ever bought in the early 90s it was one of the cheapest of the range. The fact that roughly the same watch is selling for well over $20,000 tells me things are out of control. Tudor watches are now selling at the same price entry level Rolex's cost 10 years ago.

As for these people that keep talking about an investment like all these things beware of what people are saying. Like everything dealers don't buy watches for anything near what they sell them for.

Also, you have to take the word of somebody who has owned genuine versions of these watches to understand how close they are to reality. As someone pointed out earlier if you are going to buy genuine go with two-tone gold or full precious metal these simply cannot be faked easily and likely never will be easily faked.

So in summary. Apart from GMT (why can't they get this movement right) now there is the 4130 Daytona and the incredibly high-quality Sub- Mariners. As someone said earlier by 10 hi quality replicas instead of one genuine. The only difference will be the bracelet which is for me the biggest thing that replica manufacturers can't get right.

If they can get the GMT movement right and quality keeps improving on the curve it is improving. There's no way anybody is going to buy a stainless steel Rolex the market is going to fall to pieces.

 

[lcsrep11]

As has been pointed out reps used to be really bad and easy to tell the difference. Technology is advancing one thing people don't understand about China is that they are world experts in 3D scanning and 3D printing combine that with a completely different attitude to intellectual property and as I said in my previous post it's a matter of when not if the stainless steel bubble will burst.

It is almost child's play to 3D scan the parts of a movement then manufacture them en masse with modern 3D printing technology and computer controlled production equipment. When you are paying for a genuine watch you are paying for all that fancy advertising and sponsorship of premium events. You are paying for boutiques in the fancy addresses around London, New York, Tokyo, Paris, Hong Kong, Dubai et cetera et cetera et cetera

If you buy a German watch from one of the major manufacturers you get far more value for money and many of these things just cannot be replicated easily because of the quality.

If you ask me the Pepsi GMT is at the top of the market. Ironically this was the first Rolex I ever bought in the early 90s it was one of the cheapest of the range. The fact that roughly the same watch is selling for well over $20,000 tells me things are out of control. Tudor watches are now selling at the same price entry level Rolex's cost 10 years ago.

As for these people that keep talking about an investment like all these things beware of what people are saying. Like everything dealers don't buy watches for anything near what they sell them for.

Also, you have to take the word of somebody who has owned genuine versions of these watches to understand how close they are to reality. As someone pointed out earlier if you are going to buy genuine go with two-tone gold or full precious metal these simply cannot be faked easily and likely never will be easily faked.

So in summary. Apart from GMT (why can't they get this movement right) now there is the 4130 Daytona and the incredibly high-quality Sub- Mariners. As someone said earlier by 10 hi quality replicas instead of one genuine. The only difference will be the bracelet which is for me the biggest thing that replica manufacturers can't get right.

If they can get the GMT movement right and quality keeps improving on the curve it is improving. There's no way anybody is going to buy a stainless steel Rolex the market is going to fall to pieces.

Im sure it will only be a matter of time before the GMT is replicated to a better standard and no doubt the Skydweller will come eventually too. But at the end of the day no matter how good these reps are they will always be exactly that a replica. Out of all my friends whom most own a nice watch not one of them I know of knows about these forums or the standard of the reps these days this is a minority really. They are all happy to own one nice gen watch. Most people think of reps as the 50 euro fake you bring back from a holiday abroad.

Buying replica products also doesn't sit very well with everyone so I doubt a clone of a GMT or the new noob Daytona is going to crash the price of gen watches. Its simple restrict supply, create hype, increase price and with that comes increased demand. People generally want something they cant have, human nature I guess.

Personally I wouldn't buy two tone or gold watch from and AD i would buy used and save myself a grand. Theres only one gold Rolex i know of at the minute going for more than list and thats the new root beer GMT. All other rose gold, yellow gold and bi metal models sell for well under list on the grey market at least here in the UK they do.

Going back to investment if you have owned a watch long enough and the price you paid for it is well under todays list i highly doubt you will lose money on it bubble or no bubble and with Rolex regular 10% increases it doesn't take many years for the watch to be worth more than you paid for it. That goes for even if you paid over list at the time for it as i did with mine.

 

[SOLEX]

Sorry my phone died as I was typing and it posted it....but the entire rest of the shoe is 100% made in China. marketing is everything. I cannot deny that Rolex has a BANGING factory, because they do, it's top notch. But we fool ourselves to think they aren't capable of more. Maybe there focusing more on the gold because they just made a major gold purchase, who knows what the logic behind the method is.

My only theory for why they are focusing on gold is because the economy is strong, at least in the US, and they can finally sell those suckers that have been moving slowly. I am sure once the economy slows down (which I hope it does not) then we will see more SS watches flow in.

If I am wrong, then I do not see why they need to limit the SS sales and keep this mystique of having a rare watch. Gold watches should be rarer than SS! Another thing that really bothers me is how AD's go about it. The SS buyer is not looking for a gold watch (or can't afford it), and the gold watch buyer is not looking to "downgrade" to a SS watch (unless it is some special watch like the pepsi GMT or Daytona 500). These big AD's are holding stock for "big buyers" but the small buyers would pay full price too. You think because the AD gives a big roller the "opportunity" to buy a 116500 they will keep coming back for high profit gold watches? They will come back anyways as they do not have time to waste looking online for the best price nor do they care. The little fish that buys the SS watch will probably want to upgrade/grow his collection and come back in a few years and remember the AD that sold him the hottest watch available a couple of years ago.

 

[dc2_bb6_cu2]

I’ve lurked with reps for a couple years as a way to “try out” the look of some gens. For example, I loved the look of 6 digit subs but after having both, I’ve basically settled on 5 digit due to how it looks on me and for comfort.

As far as why buy gens? PM. Gold and platinum just can’t be replicated.

Another reason for me, is sentimental value. I bought my gen hulk as a way to celebrate a promotion. You’ll look down every time and remember why.

 

[lcsrep11]

My only theory for why they are focusing on gold is because the economy is strong, at least in the US, and they can finally sell those suckers that have been moving slowly. I am sure once the economy slows down (which I hope it does not) then we will see more SS watches flow in.

If I am wrong, then I do not see why they need to limit the SS sales and keep this mystique of having a rare watch. Gold watches should be rarer than SS! Another thing that really bothers me is how AD's go about it. The SS buyer is not looking for a gold watch (or can't afford it), and the gold watch buyer is not looking to "downgrade" to a SS watch (unless it is some special watch like the pepsi GMT or Daytona 500). These big AD's are holding stock for "big buyers" but the small buyers would pay full price too. You think because the AD gives a big roller the "opportunity" to buy a 116500 they will keep coming back for high profit gold watches? They will come back anyways as they do not have time to waste looking online for the best price nor do they care. The little fish that buys the SS watch will probably want to upgrade/grow his collection and come back in a few years and remember the AD that sold him the hottest watch available a couple of years ago.

I don't think they are focusing more on gold they just simply don't sell as well and are in AD windows longer. There is more demand for stainless steel than gold always has been always will be. There are a number of reasons for this, as you mentioned affordability is a big factor. Also not everyone likes gold, some may think its too flashy, gold is thought of by many as more of a special occasion type of jewellery as a pose to something you can wear every day. To someone looking for a watch they want to wear everyday and use as a tool like its meant to be used i think majority would choose stainless. Gold is also more appealing to older generation and generally sells better in that age group, again maybe this is an affordability aspect.

When you actually think about it also gold is a bigger rip off, people think that when they buy a gold watch it warrants the the price tag because of gold content. Take a gold daytona for example, in essence its the same as a stainless daytona but gold. In the UK a stainless model list is £9100 and a yellow gold daytona is £25500. Thats £16400 pound more for the gold variant. The gold daytona weighs around 210grams, todays gold price is £31.70 per gram($41 per gram), times that by weight which gives £6658 this is an over estimate as not every component is made of gold but anyway, if you plus the price of the gold and a stainless watch together it gives £15758 this is a again an over estimate as you need to subtract the cost on the 904L which won't be a great deal granted but i hope you get what i mean. Theres still a 10k mark up even doing it that way. Does gold warrant such a premium over stainless on paper it doesn't at all its a huge huge rip off.

 

[newrepper]

The replica world allows us to enjoy the hobby at a much more affordable rate. Like others have said for me if i can get that one dream gen i always wanted I will go for it, other than that i will probably go rep.

 

[machim]

I’ve lurked with reps for a couple years as a way to “try out” the look of some gens. For example, I loved the look of 6 digit subs but after having both, I’ve basically settled on 5 digit due to how it looks on me and for comfort.

As far as why buy gens? PM. Gold and platinum just can’t be replicated.

Another reason for me, is sentimental value. I bought my gen hulk as a way to celebrate a promotion. You’ll look down every time and remember why.

Totally agree with you.

Since we learn about rep and NwBIG. We have better understanding of which model we should buy in Gen.

I saw you guys keep saying buying gen is pay for marketing. But think about it, without marketing how do you want to buy replica of its brand. Without marketing, is there replica of rolex as have you ever see any replica of no-name/unpopular watch.


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[Hinclimincli]

I don't know mate, I guess (in order to go back to the rep or gen stuff) if I had money to burn I would actually NOT burn it. I'm nearly 42, got one lovely daughter and another baby coming in September. Come the moment when they have to go to uni and I want to send them to a nice place, or they will need a good safe car, or they will be ready to move out of the nest and I will be able to help with a deposit for a house (otherwise they will be paying someone else's mortgage). I couldn't enjoy that because my parents weren't in that position at the time, but I have been lucky and worked hard, so I'd rather keep those 10k, 20k, 50k, whatever, for that moment now that I can.

There is no way I am going to chose some Swiss posh snob over my family. Unless I, somehow, end up with billions in my account, none of my bonuses or commissions will go on a high end gen because I might need them down the line. That's what reps are for, because there is no 1:1 rep for a good uni title, a good house or a good car, yet.

 

[machim]

I don't know mate, I guess (in order to go back to the rep or gen stuff) if I had money to burn I would actually NOT burn it. I'm nearly 42, got one lovely daughter and another baby coming in September. Come the moment when they have to go to uni and I want to send them to a nice place, or they will need a good safe car, or they will be ready to move out of the nest and I will be able to help with a deposit for a house (otherwise they will be paying someone else's mortgage). I couldn't enjoy that because my parents weren't in that position at the time, but I have been lucky and worked hard, so I'd rather keep those 10k, 20k, 50k, whatever, for that moment now that I can.

There is no way I am going to chose some Swiss posh snob over my family. Unless I, somehow, end up with billions in my account, none of my bonuses or commissions will go on a high end gen because I might need them down the line. That's what reps are for, because there is no 1:1 rep for a good uni title, a good house or a good car, yet.

Yes, if you can not afford gen then rep is better choice and still enjoy the hobby. No doubt on that.

But I think the conversation here is when you able to afford a gen without effect your living cost. Should you buy it?

For me, yes. If it means something for you.

But I probably end up with a watch for special occasion style. As I will wear my rep for daily beater.



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[Koric]

If money was no object, I would pick the gen. I would also wipe my ass with hundred dollar bills.

 

[Cooldaddyfunk286]

Hinclimincli ...very well put sir. A man should always put his family first. Part of the reason I can't afford gen either, a 6 thousand dollar engagement ring put me back some lol, in my early 30s too. Life ain't getting any cheaper. Especially with children.

 

[Cooldaddyfunk286]

Also guys w gens, I'm just curious, what is it about the gen bracelet (other than markings) that is different from say a v9 or new ARF sub? Is it heavier? Snappier? Lol. I have NOTHING but my v9 and very poor memory to base it off of. Haha

Thanks!

 

[Hinclimincli]

I'm not saying I can't afford it. Maybe the discussion should be, then, what does it mean to truly afford the gen? I can buy one Daytona/Royal Oak/Submariner/GMT a year, and still keep my financial commitments intact. But I would rather keep that money for other things, this is what I'm trying to say.

So, even with having the money, I still would not be happy throwing £14k on a watch (or even £4k!). No matter the history behind it, no matter how much I like it, etc. It's just too much money. I would only go gen if I had many millions in the bank.

 

[lcsrep11]

I'm not saying I can't afford it. Maybe the discussion should be, then, what does it mean to truly afford the gen? I can buy one Daytona/Royal Oak/Submariner/GMT a year, and still keep my financial commitments intact. But I would rather keep that money for other things, this is what I'm trying to say.

So, even with having the money, I still would not be happy throwing £14k on a watch (or even £4k!). No matter the history behind it, no matter how much I like it, etc. It's just too much money. I would only go gen if I had many millions in the bank.

I wish i could control myself lol. Im very close to buying my third gen the new bi metal root beer, the only thing putting me off is i think it may end up like all other bi metal / gold sports Rolex and be worth a lot less than what I pay for it, especially with these premiums. This is the kind of watch i wish they could create a good rep in as it fits what i would look for in a rep well which is something im not confident buying in gen that i will get at least the money i paid for it back. Need to wait 6 months to a year see how the market goes on this one i think.

 

[stufuse]

Great thread, and after reading it all I think it why go Gen is a double sided question. If it’s just about owning a particular watch, then I guess it comes down to affordability.

it’s funny reading people bashing brands like Rolex or any other luxury brand, be it cars, clothes etc, when we are choosing to own replicas of their products over perfectly good Gens from smaller brands or independents or even homages. It’s shows ultimately everyone here buys into these brand names image and their associations and want to own a bit of it, or there would be no market for the rep watches or this hobby.

For me, I think like others said ‘Gen is Gen’ and anything else is just pretending, no matter how well replicated, it will never be the real thing. If it came down to just owning a particular watch and money was to come easier I think the question surely would be ‘why go replica?’

That said, if you consider the other side to the hobby, Buying the reps, having them modded (or modding yourself) for better replication then ‘why go Gen’ is a different question altogether. You’re not going to tear down your brand new Gen watch and add parts as their is no need, therefore for some less enjoyment in owning the Gen.

Great hobby regardless!


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[The Rod]

Ive owned my Daytona since 2012 and its more than doubled in value. I also own a 2002 GMT master ii which i paid peanuts for and nearly worth 3x what I paid for it. No matter how good they are you don't get that with reps. In 50 years time they could be worth 5 times the initial investment.

Or the bubble could burst

 

[The Rod]

Also i never understand why its only Rolex that get shit about how much they charge premium.....its pittance compared to Patek and the grey market price is 20k over list on a stainless naulitus !

Difference is that a Patek is actually a handmade, low-production luxury item, while a steel Rolex is a mass-production, machine-made tool watch. Stop drinking the Kool Aid

 

[muiramas]

Yes, if you can not afford gen...

Nothing to do with being able to afford it or not. Its a question of worth / priorities which are purely individual. A Sub costs less than
an 8 year old Volkswagen - so while everyone can afford one, not everyone will think that dropping $8k on a watch is worth it.

Hinclimincli is right. I’d much rather spend money on my family and their future - regardless of wealth.

 

[muiramas]

Difference is that a Patek is actually a handmade, low-production luxury item, while a steel Rolex is a mass-production, machine-made tool watch. Stop drinking the Kool Aid

100% correct. Rolex’s value is in the brand more than the product. Some of the comments in this thread - ‘A year to make’, ‘Rolex make their own gold’ - are straight off Hodinkee.