ZF Cartier Diver Correct Datewheel

[jonathanw]

Hi my friends,

About the Cartier Calibre Diver available reps, I know the WBK version has the correct font/color/datewheel order but a lower quality movement and a very bad translucent (as opposed to PVD) bezel insert and I know the ZF factory version is gorgeous but has the Miyota inverted date wheel.

Ok, so far I understand all of this and the status quou, but nowadays theres the available option on ALL TD's online to source a ZF version WITH an ETA (Asian or eve nSwiss) -This SHOULD have the correct DW order- but ALL the pics online of the purported ETA ZF Divers STILL show the inverted date wheel of the Miyotas.

Well, I've written to everyone of them, I've chatted online with 2 of them and I've yet to receive a decent explanation. Sometimes its really hard to obtain a decent answer. Some even appear to be uncaring or just plain don't give a damn. Some said "the pics are wrong but just pay and order online and when you receive the rep it will have the correct DW order" LOL!!!

Now my question to the experts and enthusiasts here, have any one of you found a workaround or an answer to have a cartier diver rep that has the ZF quality AND the correct date wheel? Has anyone of you found pictures of these?

This is one solution I have thought about, I will buy a WBK version with the correct DW font/color and order/sequence (and with lower quality and super fake bezel) and I will buy a miyota incorrect inverted DW ZF high quality version and will make a modded version which has the best of both. Could this be made by a decent local watchmaker or will it need many parts / mods / skills / knowledge not readily / usually available to a non-rep expert local watchmaker? i.e should I sent directly to Domi for example?

thank you all for reading! your opinions will be greatly valuable =D

 

[jonathanw]

This is an example email exchange:

Dear Hont,
This Cartier Caliber Diver is for sale on your site:
http://www.hontwatch.ru/car0307a-calibre-de-cartier-diver-rgru-black-p-7362.html

It says its got an ETA movement but the date wheel is reversed in the pictures , as the miyota movements. Can you please update and change the correct pictures? Aren't these supposed to be the actual pictures of the watch you have for sale? the ETA should have the date wheel in correct order. this one goes down if turning clockwise!

thank you.

I want to buy from you, please let me know.


********
On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 5:21 AM, WWW.HONTWATCH.RU <[email protected]> wrote:
ohh yes friend ,sorry mistake the movement show ,becaus ethe factory use 2 movement

you can order and pay ok ,i see ship the 2836 movt :L)


******
Can you please show me the correct pictures for the Caliber Diver rose gold with the CORRECT date wheel direction? So I can buy ASAP? Will you be able to provide QC pics when I pay? I need to verify the DW is correct.


********
hello just have the pictures how in my site now





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[jonathanw]

So the customer service or the dealers of many so called "Trusted dealers" are either stupid, retarded or just don't give a **** and just care about making money and totally disregard the customers.


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[DISCOVERY110]

i have the miyota version. it is a very good rep. the date order does not bother me so much as the LOUD rotor! the BEZEL is amazing quality although it does have a little bit of horizontal movement but only to a WIS. the CASE finishing is also stellar!... really unbelievable for a rep case to have the quality of brushed and polished surfaces. Lume is good and the xtal should have AR but it is not to the level of the PAMs or APs. having handled the GEN i like this one very much and lately its a daily for me. Miyota ROTOR loud :cry2: also the CP is way too big compared to the GEN... i notice this b4 the DW.

 

[DISCOVERY110]

oh yeah... also the DIAL is really really good for a rep...
also NOTE: I had to cycle through several samples from TD as the bezel lume for 12 was C R A P !!! Chipped, cracked and falling out. Finally got a fairly decent one!
oh did i say .... MIYOTA ROTOR IS LOUD. lol

 

[jonathanw]

oh yeah... also the DIAL is really really good for a rep...
also NOTE: I had to cycle through several samples from TD as the bezel lume for 12 was C R A P !!! Chipped, cracked and falling out. Finally got a fairly decent one!
oh did i say .... MIYOTA ROTOR IS LOUD. lol

Thanks for the input ! Yes the ZF miyota is the best right now!

What is CP? And where did you buy it from in the end ?

What do you think about putting in a movement and correct DW from WBK?


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[DISCOVERY110]

CP = Cannon Pinion. Center hand stack post is TOO BIG and WRONG color to GEN. ;-)
I did not know that WBK offered correct DW
I will not be modding this other then maybe.... xtal AR but in all likely hood i will not get around to doing it.
100% recommend purchase

 

[R2D4]

So the customer service or the dealers of many so called "Trusted dealers" are either stupid, retarded or just don't give a **** and just care about making money and totally disregard the customers.


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I think your expectations are way too high for this hobby if I might say. Permission to lay it out on the line? You won't like what I tell you but you need to hear it.

 

[Daddyoftoo]

I think your expectations are way too high for this hobby if I might say. Permission to lay it out on the line? You won't like what I tell you but you need to hear it.

100% agree.
To be honest, with the obvious exception of R factory and Omega, nobody will know the minute flaws we obsess over. The DWs on every single 42mm AP ROO I have ever had are incorrect but not one person has ever noticed it.
Just order the ZF version and if they ever bother upgrading the DW, then flip it then.
Just enjoy it for what it is.

 

[R2D4]

To speak with Chinese dealers, use very short and direct questions in your email. 1 or 2 questions. If you don't get a direct answer, assume they don't have one for you, assume what you think is a worse case scenario and then decide.

They don't have time to go over all the flaws with you. It's up to you to see what is there, compare to other pics and resources and decide. QC pics if available as an offering are fine, just don't expect to see a gen, it's going to have flaws.

You mentioned WBK, do you honestly think he will sell to you knowing what you wrote about the other dealers? He doesn't give a shit about your flaws in fact, he can be a big hot head. lol You are not going to be buying from the service counter at your favorite department store, you're buying an illegally trademarked item made under the cover of darkness and the law. Thread lightly... My 2 cents.

 

[jonathanw]

[MENTION=5955]R2D4[/MENTION] clearly you haven't communicated with BK or TC on the Rolex reps area!

I am not stupid I know what I'm buying but at least if I'm selling you a REP -illegal watch as you say- in an m2m you would expect at least one pic, right ?

What if after you asked me a GENUINE question (just one question) I told you "no no pictures I don't have any yeah everything is ok wait till you receive it and it will be ok"

I asked for ONE thing, if they claim their ZF have ETA and they post miyota pics wouldn't you want ONE ETA picture at least ?

Doesn't everyone who buys illegal dark reps ask for at least a pic on the TD webpage let alone QC pics ? Or do you lose your rights to know what you buy just because they're reps ?

Where did I try to go "over all the flaws" with the TD??

Go to the IWC and Rolex subforums and see how they obsess about he slightest of inaccuracies and turn down rep after rep from TDs based on QCs, well I only wanted to see if they genuinely had the correct DW and that's what I asked for.


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[R2D4]

So the customer service or the dealers of many so called "Trusted dealers" are either stupid, retarded or just don't give a **** and just care about making money and totally disregard the customers.


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@jonathanw, my statement to you was in reference to you calling many of our dealers stupid, retarded or otherwise. You said you emailed all of the dealers here and only 2 replied. I don't know exactly why but hearing what you wrote in this post I formulated a hypothesis as to why is all. Take this with a grain of salt bud. Listen or don't, up to you.

Do you really think I don't know what goes on here at RWI or the replica world? I have been around the block and back. I see what goes on behind the scenes, I volunteer my time here for free and interact with many of our dealers who are much smarter than you or I. They are not stupid mate. You are right about one thing, they could care less about some peoples business.

I'm not here for a debate, I just thought I could help you out.

 

[junbug5150]

[MENTION=5955]R2D4[/MENTION] clearly you haven't communicated with BK or TC on the Rolex reps area!

You must have completely missed the thread RE: TC's unresponsiveness post-sale...

 

[d4m.test]

Way too complicated, it´s not the way it works. Whatever we do, the TDs set the rules, You always have the option not to buy.

All TDs can get 95% or more of the available watches. It´s very seldom for a TD to picture all of them and when he does, he also has those that have been discontinued for some Years.

Order any watch from any TD, You get qc -pictures after payment, not before.

The way the datewheel moves is exactly the same on the Asian clone ETA or the genuine ETA and I suppose on the myota and all others too. They just have to print the DWO ascending instead of descending and I haven´t seen that version yet.

In general, I think You are focussing on a specific point just too much, so skip this watch and get something that works 4You (a simple PAM-Superrep) or try it out, buy the better version first and try to do the modification with a second watch later if it continues to bother You (the basic approach seems ok, if it works You will find out and dozens will follow Your lead as nobody has done it yet).
You will find this situation with many other reps, hence the saying "get the one with the flaws You can live with".
On the Rolex subforums You mention, the members are spending hundreds on drilling the correct size lugholes, swapping bracelets and dwos, getting the right sized tubes and crowns which require drilling of the caseset etc.

 

[jonathanw]

double post

 

[jonathanw]

You must have completely missed the thread RE: TC's unresponsiveness post-sale...

Well at leasts he always replies to me and BK too, he takes some days yeah but his answers are intelligent and through, not a completely out of context and uncaring "no no pics, just pay and buy and try and its ok" thats ridiculous.

@jonathanw, my statement to you was in reference to you calling many of our dealers stupid, retarded or otherwise. You said you emailed all of the dealers here and only 2 replied. I don't know exactly why but hearing what you wrote in this post I formulated a hypothesis as to why is all. Take this with a grain of salt bud. Listen or don't, up to you.

Do you really think I don't know what goes on here at RWI or the replica world? I have been around the block and back. I see what goes on behind the scenes, I volunteer my time here for free and interact with many of our dealers who are much smarter than you or I. They are not stupid mate. You are right about one thing, they could care less about some peoples business.

I'm not here for a debate, I just thought I could help you out.

Sir: Im sorry, I didn't mean to be rude to ALL the TDs, not to you or anyone else here, I meant that to just two of them that are listed as "trusted" I tried in many ways to be amicable and polite and tried to convey my not-unreasonable point! and both of them replied with "I don't not care"-like answers, out of contet, incomplete, uncaring and ludicrous. I wasn't asking for much, just wanted to see if they indeed had the ETA (I don't care if Asian or swiss) because that one has the correct DW order. The miyota has the inverted DW because it works that way, they didn't invert the date wheel on purpose, they did that because otherwise when the miyota date mechanism advanced the actual date font would go backwards in time :kiss:

So yes, WBK is a very though and has actual intelligent and at least courteous answers and he DOES have the non miyota, correct order DW, the only bad thing is his reps are on the lower quality and the ZF with the bad DW are the better one in terms of quality , finishing and accuracy.

I may be spoiled for starting all this marvellous replica world adventure in the Rolex forums! and read and read and read for 100's of hours night after night after night and was so marvelled about the ends people go to have the most Genuine like characteristics on their beloved reps! I even bought a franken TC! I mean come on, people are actually franking the yuki movement expending 700 USD on those, there are $3500 Franken reps, etc. SO I really though an innocent picture of ONE silly detail would be like a normal thing to ask. Thats all, it bothered me they didn't care. After all, illegal or not its their business and without the customers they wouldn't have no one to sell to, they should at least pretend they care and put a silly pic up. What if I pay up as the TD said and the QCs STILL show the inverted DW? or they send erroneous QCs and they send a different watch? I didn't want to expend months and months and customs back and forth jeopardising the whole process just because he didn't care to show a decent picture of what I asked, and these pictures somehow are posted by ALL real trusted dealers like pure time and in time but not by others.

Anyways, didn't mean to be rude, I apologise you guys are doing a really thankless job. May all of you have a great rest of the week.

 

[jonathanw]

Sorry for the double post, look at the picture,
Do you guys still think Im also exaggerating a bit when I stated that some dealers just don't care even a bit for their own business?

What is that supposed to mean? That I should just buy the rep and not know at least what factory its from? tell that to the PAM guys or to the IWC and specially to the Rollies fans! :doh:

Choose your dealer carefully, I would expect at least sufficient and effective, fair communication, not this one liners.

Have a great weekend all of you

 

[lolo1972sg]

Sorry for the double post, look at the picture,
Do you guys still think Im also exaggerating a bit when I stated that some dealers just don't care even a bit for their own business?

What is that supposed to mean? That I should just buy the rep and not know at least what factory its from? tell that to the PAM guys or to the IWC and specially to the Rollies fans! :doh:

Choose your dealer carefully, I would expect at least sufficient and effective, fair communication, not this one liners.

Have a great weekend all of you

Looks like we both have small wrists and we both are looking for the same stuffs (similar taste)

 

[lolo1972sg]

Saw this cartier calibre diver on a chinese dealer website. Apparently, they use a 2824 movement. What do you guys think?

http://nfactorywatches.com/bl20150391919-512.html

I would love to get one of the TD to source this if it is really good.

Sorry, I did not manage to copy and paste the photos here because apparently, they use pic chaining...

 

[jonathanw]

The case is not JF, the lugs are very very good and not rounded, looks like a ZF/TF case. the subdial circumference is centered to cannon pinion, and the quality of the roman numerals seems not to be applied but printed like the gen diver. The cannon pinion is per gen.

This is my opinion: Be careful as this may well be a gen pic portrayed as a rep. besides, that dealer is not a TD anywhere.