PayPal F&F

[Bobbybmore]

I apologize if this question has already been asked, but I searched and could not find anything.
Why do so many M2M sellers ask for PayPal F&F when there are notices informing me not to use that payment method?
I’ve made two purchases so far, one from Sead (fantastic TD and will remain my “go to”) and another from a member (which was a very smooth transaction) who both used common trusted payment apps.
Maybe this is a two part question, because I’m also wondering what the PP F&F advantage is with this hobby we all seem to enjoy?
Side note… special thanks to the moderators for the work they do.
Thanks!!

 

[Maximillian]

PP FF is often the preferred M2M payment method for sellers, as GS can be risky for them if a buyer decides to reverse the payment after a successful transaction and receive the rep. However, the mods here typically don’t recommend FF, as it offers better protection for buyers but not the sellers. That said, in some cases, if the buyer is willing to cover the cost of GS, a few sellers may be open to it. It’s a tricky situation that doesn’t have an easy solution.

As many experienced members would suggest, when dealing with M2M, it’s important to buy the seller, not just the reps. Doing business with a reputable seller who has a solid track record is always the safer choice.

 

[eBoy]

I apologize if this question has already been asked, but I searched and could not find anything.
Why do so many M2M sellers ask for PayPal F&F when there are notices informing me not to use that payment method?
I’ve made two purchases so far, one from Sead (fantastic TD and will remain my “go to”) and another from a member (which was a very smooth transaction) who both used common trusted payment apps.
Maybe this is a two part question, because I’m also wondering what the PP F&F advantage is with this hobby we all seem to enjoy?
Side note… special thanks to the moderators for the work they do.
Thanks!!

First off, please don’t confuse TD transactions with private transactions — they are not the same and are fundamentally different. A TD transaction is a commercial sale, while a private transaction is strictly between members.

Secondly, there are no official rules prohibiting the use of Friends & Family in member-to-member transactions.

That said, the RWI moderation team does recommend against using Friends & Family — but it's a recommendation, not a rule.

Ultimately, it’s the seller’s choice. Many sellers prefer Friends & Family due to the potential for buyers to misuse Goods & Services protections. As a buyer, you can (and should) try to negotiate for G&S if it makes you more comfortable. If the seller refuses, it’s up to you to use common sense and do your due diligence. If something feels off or the seller’s track record raises red flags, you always have the option to walk away from the deal.

 

[Bobbybmore]

This helps clarify quite a bit. Basically F&F does a better job of protecting the seller while leaving the buyer somewhat exposed, while other pay apps do the opposite.
The common takeaway is to “buy the seller”. Great advice… thanks!!!

 

[Reaps]

If I was to sell to you you're ok because your certified and a supporter, do G&S is ok. Some trust is involved.

But if you had no supporter status, 3 posts, new account.... sorry I'm not going to accept G&S with you because there is no reputation or understanding.

New members without class or understanding (i.e no chargeback or disputes until a convo and resolution) means I can end up losing my Paypal account. There are horror stories of buyer recieving a watch, not being happy, and instead of talking to the seller immediately dispute and chargeback...

Not to mention there are loads of G&S scams. Disputing the payment 5 months after paying and hoping the seller forgets. Filming a fake opening video of an empty box and disputing the charge. Sorry but when it comes to $500 objects people will go to crazy lengths to scam...

 

[Bobbybmore]

If I was to sell to you you're ok because your certified and a supporter, do G&S is ok. Some trust is involved.

But if you had no supporter status, 3 posts, new account.... sorry I'm not going to accept G&S with you because there is no reputation or understanding.

New members without class or understanding (i.e no chargeback or disputes until a convo and resolution) means I can end up losing my Paypal account. There are horror stories of buyer recieving a watch, not being happy, and instead of talking to the seller immediately dispute and chargeback...

Not to mention there are loads of G&S scams. Disputing the payment 5 months after paying and hoping the seller forgets. Filming a fake opening video of an empty box and disputing the charge. Sorry but when it comes to $500 objects people will go to crazy lengths to scam...

Yeah, it’s pretty sad that scammers try to ruin the fun the rest of us are having by basically being thieves.
It’s kinda funny that as a seller you tell yourself that $500 is a lot of money, but as a buyer you try to convince yourself the opposite.

 

[Skeletor]

For me it functions as sellers protection because if there is a hickup that is out of your control even though you clearly have disclaimers in your sale listing to cover them, like customs clearance in other countries, delivery by courier to the wrong address, or force majeure of any kind, and the buyer goes to PP with any sort of complaint then PP will side with the buyer 100% of the time and leave the seller out of pocket and out of watch. PP has no interest in helping the seller, ever, even when you provide adequate tracking information for a gen item to show you followed protocol, trust me, I know (serves me right for selling an Oakley watch for a friend, eeew).

Now add to that if the buyer mentions to PP that it is a "replica" watch, bag, pen, etc then you are really screwed. They will refund the buyer and may even lock your account.

I have no problem sending $ via PP f&f as I do my due dilligence to "buy the seller"

 

[Bobbybmore]

It’s really interesting to hear things from the seller’s perspective.

 

[Art Vandelay]

Not a prolific seller but I've sold several rare pieces through the forum, 2 TCs, a Ginault Ocean Rover 1 and some hard to find parts.

From my side 'buying the buyer' is just as relevant as the equivalent 'buying the seller' consideration.

Paypal F&F can be circumvented by a scammer.

 

[derjenigewelcher]

Only used F&F, nothing else. Its about reputation - you buy the seller not the watch.

 

[idig4cash]

I've only used ff buying in here but I've taken the advise of "buy the seller." The problem is that I'm quite new to the forum and only been into reps for a couple months. In those 2 months I've bought 11 reps, 6 from TD's (which aren't even here yet) and 4 on here. I also bought one from a friend here at home that started all this. Yeah, I know, I've got an illness. Lol
Bout my problem is, with all these reps, I've already got 1 or 2 that I'm finding aren't my style, either too big or just don't like it. When I go to sell, even though I'm trustworthy and would never screw anyone out of something that wasn't mine, there's no way for anyone to know that here. Hopefully when I do decide to sell, someone will be willing to buy. I'm not much of a poster, I'm a listener but I've been posting some. I guess when the time comes, we will see.

 

[randgate]

Do most TD’s stick to the one year registered here before allowing PayPal? I’ve just registered (and trying to become a supporter) after years and a discussion on Reddit; a year is a long time to wait to purchase if PayPal is the easiest for me. I am spooked on CC since I am seeing more fraudulent behavior with credit cards at TD sites.

 

[Karbon74]

Do most TD’s stick to the one year registered here before allowing PayPal? I’ve just registered (and trying to become a supporter) after years and a discussion on Reddit; a year is a long time to wait to purchase if PayPal is the easiest for me. I am spooked on CC since I am seeing more fraudulent behavior with credit cards at TD sites.

Use Wise

 

[Michaelh]

This may not be super helpful, but as a fellow noob I had it broken down how to do your research and ‘buy the seller’ which is to look up the member, see if they are an active member of the community or not (post count, mostly afaik) and in the sales section you can search members by name in the buyer and seller reviews to see if anybody else had a good or bad experience with said seller in either end of a transaction. I’m really new here but make a point to leave reviews for everything I’ve done because they have been so helpful for me.