The comments and observations are very eye opening. Some are downright funny! This is entertaining, and I'm going to let this run a little bit longer before I give the answer.
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DateJust Test: Which is Gen?
- Thread starter 14060 or 16610?
- Start date
Dying to know! ... and wherever the rep came from, please clue us in (+ pricing $)
OK, here goes:
TT = Gen
SS = My personal daily-wear Franken (I don't really do true "reps".)
They are both 16233 cases with E serial; the customer's is from 1989 and mine is from 1991.
To be fair, the gen does indeed have aftermarket crystal. Whoever guessed that was spot on! The bracelet, clasp, end links, crown, bezel, etc. are all original.
The franken is my daily beater and sports an ETA 2892A2. The weight is within 2 grams of a 3135-equipped DJ and you cannot tell it's a franken even while holding it. I wear it into ADs without hesitation, take it off, hand it to them, etc. while I'm trying somethine else on. Even had leather swapped onto it by the staff at several places. I honestly forget it is a franken and often refer to it as a gen. It runs +2/day.
Nearly everything visible to the naked eye is gen (hands are gen but are Tudor, not Rolex). Gen dial, case, crown, bezel, crystal and gasket, datewheel, and recently added genuine clasp (bracelet is aftermarket generic replacement from the bay). Even the springbars are gen, though you can't see them.
Funny thing is that I tried selling it here a few months back and there were a lot of knockers and no takers. I also tried selling some of my engine turned bezels with little interest, though that may have been on another forum. The engine-turned bezel is never properly repped, and I haven't seen one in ages. Usually the gold fluted is what gets repped. Again whoever said that is spot on. The problem with the reps is that Rolex only makes fluted bezels in gold or white gold. So the steel fluted bezel is a dead giveaway.
I still have about a half dozen of the engine turned bezels. I should try selling some of them.
TT = Gen
SS = My personal daily-wear Franken (I don't really do true "reps".)
They are both 16233 cases with E serial; the customer's is from 1989 and mine is from 1991.
To be fair, the gen does indeed have aftermarket crystal. Whoever guessed that was spot on! The bracelet, clasp, end links, crown, bezel, etc. are all original.
The franken is my daily beater and sports an ETA 2892A2. The weight is within 2 grams of a 3135-equipped DJ and you cannot tell it's a franken even while holding it. I wear it into ADs without hesitation, take it off, hand it to them, etc. while I'm trying somethine else on. Even had leather swapped onto it by the staff at several places. I honestly forget it is a franken and often refer to it as a gen. It runs +2/day.
Nearly everything visible to the naked eye is gen (hands are gen but are Tudor, not Rolex). Gen dial, case, crown, bezel, crystal and gasket, datewheel, and recently added genuine clasp (bracelet is aftermarket generic replacement from the bay). Even the springbars are gen, though you can't see them.
Funny thing is that I tried selling it here a few months back and there were a lot of knockers and no takers. I also tried selling some of my engine turned bezels with little interest, though that may have been on another forum. The engine-turned bezel is never properly repped, and I haven't seen one in ages. Usually the gold fluted is what gets repped. Again whoever said that is spot on. The problem with the reps is that Rolex only makes fluted bezels in gold or white gold. So the steel fluted bezel is a dead giveaway.
I still have about a half dozen of the engine turned bezels. I should try selling some of them.
that TT looks like its really been rode hard for as new as it is! (and compared to yours and others I know with same age Rolexs)
isnt the white date wheel incorrect with a champagne dial?
also how come some have the fluted/engine turned bezel that ive seen like this one:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Rolex-Mens-Stai...=ViewItem&pt=Wristwatches&hash=item2ea8ce351f
my g/f's father has a SS datejust that i know is 100% genuine he bought new from an AD with receipts, boxes, everything and serviced there and Ive found nothing suggesting his bezel is WG
Jaguar,
I may be totally off but my understanding when buying some gens in the past was it was just an option. The SS engine turned bezel was the entry level (Cheaper)and the Fluted or even smooth made of either white or yellow gold was the upper level or upgrade. After some time the Gold (Fluted or smooth) became pretty much the standard for the datejust as a lot of AD's stopped ordering the SS style bezel.
The picture on the bay that you had looked like the fluted bezel which is white gold for that watch. Sorry in advance if I'm wrong.
Edit** Photos taken from the bay
SS Bezel
Gold Bezel
I may be totally off but my understanding when buying some gens in the past was it was just an option. The SS engine turned bezel was the entry level (Cheaper)and the Fluted or even smooth made of either white or yellow gold was the upper level or upgrade. After some time the Gold (Fluted or smooth) became pretty much the standard for the datejust as a lot of AD's stopped ordering the SS style bezel.
The picture on the bay that you had looked like the fluted bezel which is white gold for that watch. Sorry in advance if I'm wrong.
Edit** Photos taken from the bay
SS Bezel
Gold Bezel
thanks for your help so far, gives me a better idea! i thought fluted and engine turned were the same.
the g/f's fathers is approx a late 90s/early 2000s example so its pretty new and it def looks like the fluted
im surprised Rolex doesnt mention this more if they are all WG since they surely make sure everyone knows the SS Yachtmaster has a little Platinum on it!
the g/f's fathers is approx a late 90s/early 2000s example so its pretty new and it def looks like the fluted
im surprised Rolex doesnt mention this more if they are all WG since they surely make sure everyone knows the SS Yachtmaster has a little Platinum on it!
i dont believe it, im holding a gen in my hand! and I still got it wrong!
it was the dial for me, the SS one has dots for the small minute markers, which is what the one Im holding has
while I have it in my hand, might as well get to work on posting pics!
it was the dial for me, the SS one has dots for the small minute markers, which is what the one Im holding has
while I have it in my hand, might as well get to work on posting pics!
The TT owner was a heavy equipment operator for many years and wore this watch daily. The case and bracelet had dings and missing chunks of metal. But the indestructible 3135 was still ticking. Probably has a lot to do with the balance bridge and shock-protected escape wheel. You simply can't kill a 3135. After a full service, new mainspring, adjustment of balance end shake, and COSC-style adjustment in 6 positions, I returned it running at about -2 per day. Not bad, considering the abuse.
You are correct, the date wheel is typically champagne when paired with a gold dial; this one has been replaced. Just goes to show you can't always use the tried and true "tells" to out a rep.
The one in your link is reference number 16014. The 4 represents WG fluted bezel. The seller doesn't even appear to know this, as they are selling it as all steel.
As for your g/f's father, what is the reference number? If of the same vintage, it's probably 16234 which is identical to my watch except for the fluted WG bezel (again, the 4 represents WG fluted bezel). It may look like all SS, but if it's a DJ and has a fluted bezel it is either WG or YG. Either that, or an aftermarket SS fluted bezel (I have one in my parts collection). Trust me on this one. I've handled and worked with all kinds of DJs.
16200 - steel, smooth steel bezel
16220 - steel, engine turned bezel
16233 - two-tone, yellow gold fluted bezel
16234 - steel, white gold fluted bezel
Thanks to all you guys! and yeah these are very tough watches even in the dress models
Her fathers is a late 90s/early 20s series, i think thats 2 updates ago not 100% sure, i know mine is a 2004 when I got it and as i designed it myself i made sure they had the champagne date wheel paired with my canary yellow MOP dial....
his paper like Drivesticks has the all SS box checked im 99% sure which is why im so puzzled but ill try to check his reference number, i think im having lunch iwth him later in the week and let you guys know
damn these little things get us all OCD!
Her fathers is a late 90s/early 20s series, i think thats 2 updates ago not 100% sure, i know mine is a 2004 when I got it and as i designed it myself i made sure they had the champagne date wheel paired with my canary yellow MOP dial....
his paper like Drivesticks has the all SS box checked im 99% sure which is why im so puzzled but ill try to check his reference number, i think im having lunch iwth him later in the week and let you guys know
damn these little things get us all OCD!
Datejust
For compares, this is my 88 1/2 18k yg datejust gen. AFAIK it has never been repaired, and it has the whiteish date wheel. It has nary a ding. Keeps better than a minute a month on the winder.
http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac357/golem_phtos/watch_pub/IMG_0210.jpg
/golem
For compares, this is my 88 1/2 18k yg datejust gen. AFAIK it has never been repaired, and it has the whiteish date wheel. It has nary a ding. Keeps better than a minute a month on the winder.
http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac357/golem_phtos/watch_pub/IMG_0210.jpg
/golem
If you see, Yeah the aftermarket crystal on the TT really threw us all off. OP made a good point though. With all we know, you can't use the same old thinking as there may be mods done to a gen. I think the moral of this story is, reps are getting so good that unless you open the case to see the motor, you can never really tell. Judge the person wearing the watch not the watch itself. LOL!
Stell is gen. I based my decision on the end links. the SS looks more flush and better quality. I could be wrong lol
Interesting, I just learned something new. I always assumed gold/yellow dial = champagne date wheel. At least all of the ones I have worked with were that way. Could yours have been a redial?
For compares, this is my 88 1/2 18k yg datejust gen. AFAIK it has never been repaired, and it has the whiteish date wheel. It has nary a ding. Keeps better than a minute a month on the winder.
http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac357/golem_phtos/watch_pub/IMG_0210.jpg
/golem
So they're either both gen. At least as far as the case and dial, which is 99% of what we are all obsessing over.
Or they are both frankens since the "gen" has aftermarket crystal and highly suspect date wheel.
Anyways, I call foul on the whole contest. :lol:
Or they are both frankens since the "gen" has aftermarket crystal and highly suspect date wheel.
Anyways, I call foul on the whole contest. :lol:
You would be surprised, im 24 and have worn my gen (had it since 18) many times after leaving the pool or washing a car etc wearing a bathing suit, t shirt with holes in it and driving my brothers Duramax (ok so its $50k lol) pick up truck and wearing flip flops...but its a gen lol
then again most days i wear one of my replicas and frequently have on designer jeans, cole haans, and am driving $50k-$100k + cars with the titles at home
guess im a jokester huh lol
A very Blessed one though!"Either way, that is a very nice watch. Rolex DateJust, especially 2-tone, is so iconic!"
I couldnt have said it better myself