mydnytrydr
Mythical Poster
- 25/9/09
- 7,800
- 222
- 63
I have two watches with the Sellita SW200 engine powering them. The mov't is VERY smooth, keeps great time and keeps a charge for 44 to 46 hrs when fully wound ... Love the Sellitas!!
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TT Blue Dial Sub by Fakemaster
- Thread starter donaldejose
- Start date
seanf and Time4Direct
I don't disagree with either or you. If I were in your shoes I would feel as you do. But I am not and we are talking about two different things. I am just expressing an opinion and relating my personal experiences. I have ordered many 21J from many dealers (including "noob factory" watches from Time4Diirect) and my personal experience with them is that my real world total cost delivered to my door runs $100 to $150 and there has been a significant failure rate within the first year (with the movement and other parts). Once I have a failed watch it is no good to me at all (and an embarrassment if I have given it to someone else as a gift) because I cannot personally swap out the movement and don't have a watchsmith here to do it for me. So "fixing" that watch involves the hassle of finding someone elsewhere, mailing and waiting. All stuff I wouid rather not do. See the thread I started on the noobmariner and other people's experience with the 21J in those watches. So I am in the position of trying to purchase the best quality and reliability I can find from the start. You aren't in the same position as me; you have other options which make more sense to you. That is all fine. It isn't a matter of justifying the cost for a service on a 21J as people are arguing. It is a matter of what it is worth to me personally to obtain a 21J that I can rely upon. I expressed the opinion, it would be worth $200 USD to me to be able to purchase a watch with a 21J movement that was 100% reliable. People are extrapolating from that figure to compute an expensive service of a low cost movement. That is not what I said. I never at any time said someone should purchase the cheapest 21J they can find on the internet and then pay someone $100 to service the movement. Never said that and never would say that. Also, I never said Fakemaster charges $200 for his watches; he doesn't. People have misunderstood my comment and are reacting to something I never said. I just said that $200 is what I would be willing to pay someone I trusted to consistently deliver a quality product, whether if it is 21J, quartz,. etc. Another consideration for me is that I give many watches away to friends and clients and business associates. I don't want to give them something that has a high chance of failing within a year. That reliability is more important to me than it is to you because you can fix anything that goes wrong. I cannot. I have to give a gift which has a very high chance of not needing to be fixed for many years. I have found the noobmariner simply too risky to present as gifts no matter which dealer was the middleman and no matter how much they claimed to have quality controlled the watch before they shipped it to me. In my experience all of the $60 to $100 or so watches on the internet actually cost me 50% to 100% more by the time I get them to my house. So I really have to spend $100 to $150 by the time I get that Asian assembled 21J to my door and even then I have found too many quality issues (which I lack the skill to fix) for me to feel comfortable relying on such a watch as a fun gift to a business associate. I find only fakemaster has been able to consistently deliver a quality product I can count on to be running a year later (and I am sure there is some failure rate with his builds also, just a much lower one in my experience). Thus, his product justifies a premium price to me. That is my personal opinion and personal experience. Now, in that context, does my comment regarding being willing to spend $200 for a 21J make more sense to you? I really don't think I am being irrational or crazy or spreading misinformation. At least I sure don't intend any of those. But I may be wrong. We all can be wrong. That is why forums like RWI are helpful.
I never discussed what an Asian ETA clone or what a Swiss Made ETA or the new SW200 would be worth to me: total cost delivered to my door in Pennsylvania, US. . I have some Asian ETAs and some Swiss ETAs. No problems with them so far but my numbers are too limited to trust statistically and the time I have had them is to short to yet judge. I just don't know the failure rate on Asian ETA clones, Swiss ETAs or the new SW200.
It would be helpful to all of us if RWI had some sort of data bank or poll where we could input the failure rate of various movements (maybe even the failure rate from various dealers) and then we may be able to generate enough statistical power to determine whether or not a certain watch is "bullet proof" or not. We read those terms in anecdotal comments and we each have personal experiences to draw upon but none of us have enough data to have real "statistical significance" to my knowledge. Does this post make more sense to you?
I don't disagree with either or you. If I were in your shoes I would feel as you do. But I am not and we are talking about two different things. I am just expressing an opinion and relating my personal experiences. I have ordered many 21J from many dealers (including "noob factory" watches from Time4Diirect) and my personal experience with them is that my real world total cost delivered to my door runs $100 to $150 and there has been a significant failure rate within the first year (with the movement and other parts). Once I have a failed watch it is no good to me at all (and an embarrassment if I have given it to someone else as a gift) because I cannot personally swap out the movement and don't have a watchsmith here to do it for me. So "fixing" that watch involves the hassle of finding someone elsewhere, mailing and waiting. All stuff I wouid rather not do. See the thread I started on the noobmariner and other people's experience with the 21J in those watches. So I am in the position of trying to purchase the best quality and reliability I can find from the start. You aren't in the same position as me; you have other options which make more sense to you. That is all fine. It isn't a matter of justifying the cost for a service on a 21J as people are arguing. It is a matter of what it is worth to me personally to obtain a 21J that I can rely upon. I expressed the opinion, it would be worth $200 USD to me to be able to purchase a watch with a 21J movement that was 100% reliable. People are extrapolating from that figure to compute an expensive service of a low cost movement. That is not what I said. I never at any time said someone should purchase the cheapest 21J they can find on the internet and then pay someone $100 to service the movement. Never said that and never would say that. Also, I never said Fakemaster charges $200 for his watches; he doesn't. People have misunderstood my comment and are reacting to something I never said. I just said that $200 is what I would be willing to pay someone I trusted to consistently deliver a quality product, whether if it is 21J, quartz,. etc. Another consideration for me is that I give many watches away to friends and clients and business associates. I don't want to give them something that has a high chance of failing within a year. That reliability is more important to me than it is to you because you can fix anything that goes wrong. I cannot. I have to give a gift which has a very high chance of not needing to be fixed for many years. I have found the noobmariner simply too risky to present as gifts no matter which dealer was the middleman and no matter how much they claimed to have quality controlled the watch before they shipped it to me. In my experience all of the $60 to $100 or so watches on the internet actually cost me 50% to 100% more by the time I get them to my house. So I really have to spend $100 to $150 by the time I get that Asian assembled 21J to my door and even then I have found too many quality issues (which I lack the skill to fix) for me to feel comfortable relying on such a watch as a fun gift to a business associate. I find only fakemaster has been able to consistently deliver a quality product I can count on to be running a year later (and I am sure there is some failure rate with his builds also, just a much lower one in my experience). Thus, his product justifies a premium price to me. That is my personal opinion and personal experience. Now, in that context, does my comment regarding being willing to spend $200 for a 21J make more sense to you? I really don't think I am being irrational or crazy or spreading misinformation. At least I sure don't intend any of those. But I may be wrong. We all can be wrong. That is why forums like RWI are helpful.
I never discussed what an Asian ETA clone or what a Swiss Made ETA or the new SW200 would be worth to me: total cost delivered to my door in Pennsylvania, US. . I have some Asian ETAs and some Swiss ETAs. No problems with them so far but my numbers are too limited to trust statistically and the time I have had them is to short to yet judge. I just don't know the failure rate on Asian ETA clones, Swiss ETAs or the new SW200.
It would be helpful to all of us if RWI had some sort of data bank or poll where we could input the failure rate of various movements (maybe even the failure rate from various dealers) and then we may be able to generate enough statistical power to determine whether or not a certain watch is "bullet proof" or not. We read those terms in anecdotal comments and we each have personal experiences to draw upon but none of us have enough data to have real "statistical significance" to my knowledge. Does this post make more sense to you?
The OPs watch look very good, I like it.
HKs, watch looks great and about as close to a gen as you can get.
HKs, watch looks great and about as close to a gen as you can get.
- 15/4/07
- 14,908
- 56
- 48
- 17/3/06
- 11,843
- 7
- 38
I gave up reading it all, too much nothing. Paragraphs of blah blah blah, no thanks.
HK, give us some more pics of that baby.:cool2:
HK, give us some more pics of that baby.:cool2:
Anyone paying for a completely pre-serviced 21 jewel movement is getting hoodwinked, period. There I said it.
DonaldJose we are all in your court and you are right.This is the great thing about any forum, especially Rwi and any other watch forum.
DonaldJose we are all in your court and you are right.This is the great thing about any forum, especially Rwi and any other watch forum.
You give obvious fakes to business associates? Youch!:wacko:
Give them homages instead:
http://www.siswatch727.com/index.do
I'd like to know this as well.
- 15/4/07
- 14,908
- 56
- 48
hk45ca and guanaco
hk45ca. I have purchased so many watches. But my best recollection is that this was specially assembled at my request and that the price was about $115 (give or take $5). In my opinion a very good value. Others may disagree and certainly are free to purchase what they want where they want. The idea of an expensive after market service on an inexpensive movement was something other people thought I said, which I did not say.
quanaco - Of course I tell them they are fakes, show them my collection and let them pick one from among my collection if they are interested. All have been. Just trying to introduce them to the hobby. Never trying to represent something to be what it is not. They get a big kick out of it. It is just fun. No one has yet turned me down when I offered the opportunity.
hk45ca. I have purchased so many watches. But my best recollection is that this was specially assembled at my request and that the price was about $115 (give or take $5). In my opinion a very good value. Others may disagree and certainly are free to purchase what they want where they want. The idea of an expensive after market service on an inexpensive movement was something other people thought I said, which I did not say.
quanaco - Of course I tell them they are fakes, show them my collection and let them pick one from among my collection if they are interested. All have been. Just trying to introduce them to the hobby. Never trying to represent something to be what it is not. They get a big kick out of it. It is just fun. No one has yet turned me down when I offered the opportunity.
Donald we get your point, but as time4direct says, which i agree with him, 2813movements are unserviceable, if Fakey can indeed service those movements, than i will truely call him a grand watch master. That's the reason why almost most of our modders refuse to work with DG2813, because it is a cheap movemnt to be replaced when it dies, and also because one you try to open it up, you can never put it back again unless you have manys parts can have the patience to rebuild a jigsaw puzzle as the torlerances for these movements are ridiculous.
Again I am speaking from experience here..
Again I am speaking from experience here..
alvinado
Please refer to this thread.
forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/birth-fakeymariner-36615
It shows what I have been referring to as "custom" building and "pre-sale servicing." I don't know if the movement depicted is a DG 2813 or not.
All I know is that when I have offered a noob or Fakemaster choice to 10 people so far 10 out of the 10 have examined both watches and selected the Fakemaster built watch because it does have higher felt quality. You can really feel the difference in his builds regardless of whether or not the parts can and are assembled in cheaper somewhere else in the world. If someone thinks there is no difference because all parts are the same they should buy the cheapest thing they can find on the internet. I don't argue with that approach. I am just talking about what 10 out of 10 people have done when they can hold two watches in their hand and carefully examine them. That is all I have been saying here. Just sharing an experience and basing an opinion on my personal experience. I never said anyone should pay over a hundred dollars to service a DG 2813 movement. That idea has been a misinterpretation of my comment and has been perpetuated by people responding, not to what I actually said but responding to what others were erroneously posting as my opinion. Does this make more sense to you now?
Please refer to this thread.
forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/birth-fakeymariner-36615
It shows what I have been referring to as "custom" building and "pre-sale servicing." I don't know if the movement depicted is a DG 2813 or not.
All I know is that when I have offered a noob or Fakemaster choice to 10 people so far 10 out of the 10 have examined both watches and selected the Fakemaster built watch because it does have higher felt quality. You can really feel the difference in his builds regardless of whether or not the parts can and are assembled in cheaper somewhere else in the world. If someone thinks there is no difference because all parts are the same they should buy the cheapest thing they can find on the internet. I don't argue with that approach. I am just talking about what 10 out of 10 people have done when they can hold two watches in their hand and carefully examine them. That is all I have been saying here. Just sharing an experience and basing an opinion on my personal experience. I never said anyone should pay over a hundred dollars to service a DG 2813 movement. That idea has been a misinterpretation of my comment and has been perpetuated by people responding, not to what I actually said but responding to what others were erroneously posting as my opinion. Does this make more sense to you now?
One thing not confusing is that you take great pics! Now if you would just resize them a bit...
$115 for this TT blue sub seems like a pretty good price. Was your TT black sub, which you posted earlier, also the same price? The gold is 18k plated, yes? As opposed to 14k wrapped?
9postguy
You have to consult Fakemaster on prices. To the best of my recollection all his builds run in about the same price range. If you get one from his Bargain Bin you can often get it for less than $100. As you probably know by now, I think the value of his work is greater than the prices he charges.
I tend to put my opinions to "the test" in order to determine their validity. 10 times out of 10 times people choose the Fakemaster watch over a similarly priced submariner purchased from a dealer I learned about on RWI. My comment about value is what confused some readers into claiming I was arguing for a $100 post purchase service on a "replacable" movement which cost about $20 (if you replace it yourself). Of course, I never said any such thing. So it was all a false controversy. Sorry for the confusion.
I just posted photographs of a TT "noobmariner." Perhaps you would like to visually compare the two watches. You cannot compare the "feel" of them for quality unless you have one of each in your hands. Hence, the purpose of my test and why I posted the results of that test.
You have to consult Fakemaster on prices. To the best of my recollection all his builds run in about the same price range. If you get one from his Bargain Bin you can often get it for less than $100. As you probably know by now, I think the value of his work is greater than the prices he charges.
I tend to put my opinions to "the test" in order to determine their validity. 10 times out of 10 times people choose the Fakemaster watch over a similarly priced submariner purchased from a dealer I learned about on RWI. My comment about value is what confused some readers into claiming I was arguing for a $100 post purchase service on a "replacable" movement which cost about $20 (if you replace it yourself). Of course, I never said any such thing. So it was all a false controversy. Sorry for the confusion.
I just posted photographs of a TT "noobmariner." Perhaps you would like to visually compare the two watches. You cannot compare the "feel" of them for quality unless you have one of each in your hands. Hence, the purpose of my test and why I posted the results of that test.
My bad. I didn't know Bk had 2 models to work with. I ordered the BK WM9 TT wrapped.
Can't go wrong with the WM9 - Best TT Sub out there right now.
I would've gotten a WM9 TT but I'm busy on my current one, it's a TW Best modded TT Sub, it has a solid 18K TT bracelet, gen 18K gold crown/tube and verified ETA movement. All it needs is a gen dial and a solid gold bezel which I'm trying to source right now and it's finished. :q5: