Ok boys,
You know what it is - vintage daytonas! The love for chronographs, the love for Paul Newmans - and in many many ways - reps have fallen short of our expectations. I've learned much (though not an expert by any means) from our community here so I decided to put together a little guide as well as updating on my collection / builds.
Aside from all the members that has written many posts about this topics - all of which I've tried to gather here for a collective thread - I also would like to thank several people that have helped me through my daytona madness @occb2 for your knowledge and generosity, @yodog , @Hnguyen , @JBowen for all the long chats about building and daytonas, and a close local friend that helped me acquire the DW Albino!
Here's the nitty gritty.
1. Quick GEN notes
2. Various Reps
3. Movements
4. Build Guide / Issues
Section 1: Quick GEN notes
Because there is way too much info on the gens, I can only narrow this down to a few things we should look for when comparing rep to GENs.
1. 6263 bakelite inserts have been seen mostly with flat 'S' but I have found some samples with rounded 'S' as well - one thing to note they both have thin printing, making them look refined and beautiful
2. Later references comes with fatter subdial hands, some (like me) prefer thinner hands but they are BOTH correct. Through servicing and such, many earlier reference GEN has thicker subdial hands as well. So, this should should not deter you.
3. A GEN looking case should have Asymmetrical pushers - the top pusher (start/stop) is closer to the crown than the bottom pusher (reset).
4. A GEN or GEN spec dial is almost a must unless you get a DW case because most of them has wrong subdial placements.
5. Gen dial is a whole different topic and there are many good reads out there already! Go crazy if you want
https://www.revolution.watch/the-paul-newman-daytona-according-to-eric-ku/
Section 2: The various reps
DW Daytonas 37mm
Some many days, months, and years ago...a man name David Wong made the best reps of our beloved Daytonas. Initially came with a "mystery" movement that loves to fail (some rumored 50% of the watches didn't make it past several months, some DOA). He later improved them with an Asian 7750 converted to 7753 handwind. These proved to be much better but still, I'd be careful with their chronograph. But, that being said, the 7750 DW watches are very very accurate - thin subdial hands, correct flat 'S' and '110' on the bakelite bezels. - one thing to keep in mind, a few years ago (2013ish DW stole a bunch of people's money and ran off into the abyss - I would advise everyone NOT to try to get in touch with him if you like to keep your money!)
Things to note:
-Accepts GEN crystal T21
-1st versions came with "mystery movement" that is very unreliable.
-Some came with incorrect normal 'S' on the bakelite insert but nice thin printing - still better than cartel versions (more on that below).
-Some has symmetrical pushers (wrong!) they have to be asymmetrical to be correct per gen
-Cannot accept gen / gen-spec dials
-Cannot be bought right now.
-Comes in 6239, 6421, 6263, 6265
DW / Spinmaster Daytonas 37mm
-Basically this is a DW daytona that Spinmaster source, service, and resell - sometimes he adds gen parts and such. Also a scammer, he stole a bunch of peoples money and also lost to the abyss.
Andy Schuren Daytonas 37mm
A company from Germany sourced DW daytonas several years ago and sold them as their watches with Schuren S on the crown and Schuren dial and a thicker caseback to accomodate a normal 7750 with self . You can easily get one of these (although there's only like 30 of them made so I guess theyre rare too), swap out the crown for a gen rolex crown, swap out dial to 7750 dial from DW, remove the rotor of the 7750 effectively making it a 7753, and source a thin caseback from DW and you'll have a DW daytona.
-If that sounds like a big pain in the *$$ that's because it is...lol
-It, also, accepts a gen crystal t21
-Like the DW (because thats what it is) it cannot accept gen / gen-spec dials
Cartel 39mm
-Cartel created the new 39mm version with correct spacing for subdial
-Runs reliable ST19 movement
-Incorrect size, but very good dial layout
-Good rep if you just want to wear it and go - no modding, a cool $250 and you're home free.
Cartel v1 37mm
-These first gen cartel are almost 100% like DW in their case size. They accept DW bezels, DW caseback, as well as gen t21 crystal - however they have incorrect symmetrical pushers
-Runs reliable ST19 movement
-Cannot accept gen / gen-spec dials
-Incorrect subdial spacing
-Incorrect normal S on the 6263 version
-Correct thick subdial hands
-No longer being made
Cartel v2 37mm
This is the watch you want right now. It's readily available and runs the very reliable ST19 movement like the other two Cartels
-Runs reliable ST19 movement
-Cannot accept gen / gen-spec dials
-Incorrect subdial spacing
-Incorrect normal S on the 6263 version
-Correct thick subdial hands
Section 3: Movements
Mystery Movement
-Came on DW early daytonas
-Unreliable and might break at any time
-A lot broke before they even arrive to the owners
DW A7750
-Asian 7750 Movement from DW
-Reliable (I still would avoid using the chrono)
-Rotor normally removed to make it a 7753 hand wind
-Only fits DW cases
ST19
-Very reliable movement that comes on the cartel
-Subdial at 6 doesn't work but this doesn't matter - the main chrono hand and the minute counter at 3 works which is a huge bonus
-Did I mention its reliable?!
Valjoux 72 / 72x
-Obviously an insanely great choice
-runs about $1500 for a serviced one
-fits Phong Case, and some members have been able to put into DW case
Section 4: Build Issues
A cost effective - if thats even a word that can be used in building vintage daytonas (just figure 1k to 1.5k to be safe) Using Cartel 37mm v2 as BASE, you can follow the guide below.
Remeber, on a Daytona build, 90% is the DIAL! Make sure you get a good dial! No, scratch that - get a great dial!
6239 / 6265
-You should be able to get one of these from Cartel - your bezel will be correct
-You might want thin subdial hands. If you do, you will need an old Omega speedmaster as a donor for thin subdial hands for your ST19 movement
-You might want a yuki bracelet - it's by far the best bracelet.
-You will need Clarks t21 crystal - the stock one is a joke
-You will need a GEN spec dial ($300 to $750 between ebay all the way to Phong / MQ)
-You will need the subdial @6 mod to accomodate the new gen spec dial.
6263 / 6241
-You will need a flat S bezel insert - I found one for $110 on ebay but it did NOT fit the Cartel v2. Still working on finding one that fits, the only other ones listed were $250 and $450 and I did not feel like trying that out again. Maybe one day I will, if anyone else wants to try please update us.
-You might want thin subdial hands. If you do, you will need an old Omega speedmaster as a donor for thin subdial hands for your ST19 movement
-You might want a yuki bracelet - it's by far the best bracelet.
-You will need Clarks t21 crystal - the stock one is a joke
-You will need a GEN spec dial ($300 to $750 between ebay all the way to Phong / MQ)
-You will need the subdial @6 mod to accomodate the new gen spec dial.
With that said - I will update this thread from time to time. Currently you can see my collection below:
DW 6263 Gold
DW 6263 Albino (very rare, only 5 in collections across the 4 forums)
Paul Newman 'Tiffany' 6263 (this should be in a 6239 or 6241 case, I'm working on ordering a new one for it) GEN Spec dial with gen coronet
Paul Newman 'Red Panda' 6265 GEN Spec dial, gen coronet, very very hard to get thin subdial hands.
You know what it is - vintage daytonas! The love for chronographs, the love for Paul Newmans - and in many many ways - reps have fallen short of our expectations. I've learned much (though not an expert by any means) from our community here so I decided to put together a little guide as well as updating on my collection / builds.
Aside from all the members that has written many posts about this topics - all of which I've tried to gather here for a collective thread - I also would like to thank several people that have helped me through my daytona madness @occb2 for your knowledge and generosity, @yodog , @Hnguyen , @JBowen for all the long chats about building and daytonas, and a close local friend that helped me acquire the DW Albino!
Here's the nitty gritty.
1. Quick GEN notes
2. Various Reps
3. Movements
4. Build Guide / Issues
Section 1: Quick GEN notes
Because there is way too much info on the gens, I can only narrow this down to a few things we should look for when comparing rep to GENs.
1. 6263 bakelite inserts have been seen mostly with flat 'S' but I have found some samples with rounded 'S' as well - one thing to note they both have thin printing, making them look refined and beautiful
2. Later references comes with fatter subdial hands, some (like me) prefer thinner hands but they are BOTH correct. Through servicing and such, many earlier reference GEN has thicker subdial hands as well. So, this should should not deter you.
3. A GEN looking case should have Asymmetrical pushers - the top pusher (start/stop) is closer to the crown than the bottom pusher (reset).
4. A GEN or GEN spec dial is almost a must unless you get a DW case because most of them has wrong subdial placements.
5. Gen dial is a whole different topic and there are many good reads out there already! Go crazy if you want
https://www.revolution.watch/the-paul-newman-daytona-according-to-eric-ku/Section 2: The various reps
DW Daytonas 37mm
Some many days, months, and years ago...a man name David Wong made the best reps of our beloved Daytonas. Initially came with a "mystery" movement that loves to fail (some rumored 50% of the watches didn't make it past several months, some DOA). He later improved them with an Asian 7750 converted to 7753 handwind. These proved to be much better but still, I'd be careful with their chronograph. But, that being said, the 7750 DW watches are very very accurate - thin subdial hands, correct flat 'S' and '110' on the bakelite bezels. - one thing to keep in mind, a few years ago (2013ish DW stole a bunch of people's money and ran off into the abyss - I would advise everyone NOT to try to get in touch with him if you like to keep your money!)
Things to note:
-Accepts GEN crystal T21
-1st versions came with "mystery movement" that is very unreliable.
-Some came with incorrect normal 'S' on the bakelite insert but nice thin printing - still better than cartel versions (more on that below).
-Some has symmetrical pushers (wrong!) they have to be asymmetrical to be correct per gen
-Cannot accept gen / gen-spec dials
-Cannot be bought right now.
-Comes in 6239, 6421, 6263, 6265
DW / Spinmaster Daytonas 37mm
-Basically this is a DW daytona that Spinmaster source, service, and resell - sometimes he adds gen parts and such. Also a scammer, he stole a bunch of peoples money and also lost to the abyss.
Andy Schuren Daytonas 37mm
A company from Germany sourced DW daytonas several years ago and sold them as their watches with Schuren S on the crown and Schuren dial and a thicker caseback to accomodate a normal 7750 with self . You can easily get one of these (although there's only like 30 of them made so I guess theyre rare too), swap out the crown for a gen rolex crown, swap out dial to 7750 dial from DW, remove the rotor of the 7750 effectively making it a 7753, and source a thin caseback from DW and you'll have a DW daytona.
-If that sounds like a big pain in the *$$ that's because it is...lol
-It, also, accepts a gen crystal t21
-Like the DW (because thats what it is) it cannot accept gen / gen-spec dials
Cartel 39mm
-Cartel created the new 39mm version with correct spacing for subdial
-Runs reliable ST19 movement
-Incorrect size, but very good dial layout
-Good rep if you just want to wear it and go - no modding, a cool $250 and you're home free.
Cartel v1 37mm
-These first gen cartel are almost 100% like DW in their case size. They accept DW bezels, DW caseback, as well as gen t21 crystal - however they have incorrect symmetrical pushers
-Runs reliable ST19 movement
-Cannot accept gen / gen-spec dials
-Incorrect subdial spacing
-Incorrect normal S on the 6263 version
-Correct thick subdial hands
-No longer being made
Cartel v2 37mm
This is the watch you want right now. It's readily available and runs the very reliable ST19 movement like the other two Cartels
-Runs reliable ST19 movement
-Cannot accept gen / gen-spec dials
-Incorrect subdial spacing
-Incorrect normal S on the 6263 version
-Correct thick subdial hands
Section 3: Movements
Mystery Movement
-Came on DW early daytonas
-Unreliable and might break at any time
-A lot broke before they even arrive to the owners
DW A7750
-Asian 7750 Movement from DW
-Reliable (I still would avoid using the chrono)
-Rotor normally removed to make it a 7753 hand wind
-Only fits DW cases
ST19
-Very reliable movement that comes on the cartel
-Subdial at 6 doesn't work but this doesn't matter - the main chrono hand and the minute counter at 3 works which is a huge bonus
-Did I mention its reliable?!
Valjoux 72 / 72x
-Obviously an insanely great choice
-runs about $1500 for a serviced one
-fits Phong Case, and some members have been able to put into DW case
Section 4: Build Issues
A cost effective - if thats even a word that can be used in building vintage daytonas (just figure 1k to 1.5k to be safe) Using Cartel 37mm v2 as BASE, you can follow the guide below.
Remeber, on a Daytona build, 90% is the DIAL! Make sure you get a good dial! No, scratch that - get a great dial!
6239 / 6265
-You should be able to get one of these from Cartel - your bezel will be correct
-You might want thin subdial hands. If you do, you will need an old Omega speedmaster as a donor for thin subdial hands for your ST19 movement
-You might want a yuki bracelet - it's by far the best bracelet.
-You will need Clarks t21 crystal - the stock one is a joke
-You will need a GEN spec dial ($300 to $750 between ebay all the way to Phong / MQ)
-You will need the subdial @6 mod to accomodate the new gen spec dial.
6263 / 6241
-You will need a flat S bezel insert - I found one for $110 on ebay but it did NOT fit the Cartel v2. Still working on finding one that fits, the only other ones listed were $250 and $450 and I did not feel like trying that out again. Maybe one day I will, if anyone else wants to try please update us.
-You might want thin subdial hands. If you do, you will need an old Omega speedmaster as a donor for thin subdial hands for your ST19 movement
-You might want a yuki bracelet - it's by far the best bracelet.
-You will need Clarks t21 crystal - the stock one is a joke
-You will need a GEN spec dial ($300 to $750 between ebay all the way to Phong / MQ)
-You will need the subdial @6 mod to accomodate the new gen spec dial.
With that said - I will update this thread from time to time. Currently you can see my collection below:
DW 6263 Gold
DW 6263 Albino (very rare, only 5 in collections across the 4 forums)
Paul Newman 'Tiffany' 6263 (this should be in a 6239 or 6241 case, I'm working on ordering a new one for it) GEN Spec dial with gen coronet
Paul Newman 'Red Panda' 6265 GEN Spec dial, gen coronet, very very hard to get thin subdial hands.
