"Swiss" ETA / Asian Superclones / Asian Clones - What's the best choice?

[Wiz]

Just to clarify what have been said earlier in the thread: When we mentionned Asian clones, we were of course talking about the clones that can be found in our reps.

Seagull produces some good quality clones, but in 99.99% of the cases, this is not what you'll get in a rep. There are some cosmetical differences between the original ETA movements and the Seagull clones, so telling one from the other is actually pretty easy.

Also, it doesn't mean these Seagull clones are as good as the original ETAs. Maybe the parts are of similar quality, but the assembly is definitely not as good. You'll need to have the movement professionally assembled and checked to obtain something of similar quality.

Also, bear in mind that as anything produced in China, there are various "grades" of Seagull clones. Only the highest grade will be able to compare - after proper assembling - with the ETA movements.

Finally, when buying Seagull movements, the problem is that basically you can't know what grade you're going to have. You can only trust what the seller tells you, making it difficult to know if you're getting a fair deal.

This is not much different from buying original ETAs. Often it's not easy to know if you're really getting something brand new, or some new-old stock, or something refurbished. That's why having a supplier of trust is so important.

 

[Luthier]

Just to clarify all this BS about "refurbished" Swiss movements - there's no such a thing exist. Question - did replicas factories ever asked you to return Swiss movement to them, if it's broken, old, or useless? Another question - where the hell they'll find tons of old Swiss movements? I'd like to hear your answer on this simple question.And the last - being on Watch Market in GZ many times every year, I've seen literally boxes with genuine Swiss 2836 and 2824 movements, that they sell for about $60 each, and boxes with clones, that they sell for about $40 each. They never tried to sell me a clone as genuine. ETA still sell genuine movements to China by tons, so, there's no any problem to get a real, genuine Eta movement.

 

[scone2ten]

wow.... wish i have read this earlier...

 

[goonx]

Just to clarify all this BS about "refurbished" Swiss movements - there's no such a thing exist. Question - did replicas factories ever asked you to return Swiss movement to them, if it's broken, old, or useless? Another question - where the hell they'll find tons of old Swiss movements? I'd like to hear your answer on this simple question.And the last - being on Watch Market in GZ many times every year, I've seen literally boxes with genuine Swiss 2836 and 2824 movements, that they sell for about $60 each, and boxes with clones, that they sell for about $40 each. They never tried to sell me a clone as genuine. ETA still sell genuine movements to China by tons, so, there's no any problem to get a real, genuine Eta movement.

ETA movements do break down (there are tons of ETA movements out there as you said) and when people take their watches in for a swap, the old one is left for the watch maker.

Perhaps there's a grey market where these broken ETA movements are collected by the rep factories to be fixed and placed in reps. Who knows. New ETA movements are not as cheap as $60.

 

[cybee]

Some watch makers state clearly that they sell old/reclaimed ETA movements, about same price as the watches with asian clone movements. But other watch makers only provide new ETA movements. and it's the responsiblity of dealers to state to the buyers whether the movement is new or old ETA.

Just to clarify all this BS about "refurbished" Swiss movements - there's no such a thing exist. Question - did replicas factories ever asked you to return Swiss movement to them, if it's broken, old, or useless? Another question - where the hell they'll find tons of old Swiss movements?

When you get conflicting opinions from those in the industry it's easy to understand why the average buyer gets confused and doesn't know who to believe.

What's the best choice??? Don't plan on that question being answered anytime soon.

 

[kindred666]

When you get conflicting opinions from those in the industry it's easy to understand why the average buyer gets confused and doesn't know who to believe.

What's the best choice??? Don't plan on that question being answered anytime soon.

Yeah, totally agree on this...even the know how are debating, let alone us, i supposed i just enjoy the watch then worry...

 

[d4m.test]

It seems that new releases are now offering Selita SWXXX movements as the swiss option rather than ETA 24XX movements. What's the consensus of how genuine/new the Selita movements in reps are?

Personally, I'm inclined to believe that during this short period of time, we're blessed with the option of brand new Selita movements that have almost no chance of being refurbished. I'm assuming this based on the thought that Selita movements aren't very common out in the wild right now, so the stock of refurbished or franken Selitas is practically non-existent.

Thoughts?

 

[Wiz]

There is no refurbished Sellitas for the simple reason that there is no old stock.

As for refurbished ETA movements, as I said before the chances of actually getting one in a rep have been greatly exagerated. Maybe refurbished movements were widely spread somewhere in the past, but today they are quite rare.

 

[WATCHCOLLECTR]

So is the consensus that paying the extra $$$ for the Selita worth it?

 

[d4m.test]

So is the consensus that paying the extra $$$ for the Selita worth it?

I don't know if consensus is the right word, but I think it is. I get the impression that Wiz also thinks so, which is a pretty highly regarded source.

 

[Wiz]

The correct answer is: it depends.

You need to ask the dealer first if the maker that build the watch you're after really use brand new swiss movements or refurbished. Dealers know exactly what their suppliers are selling.

And if you get a positive answer then yes, go for the swiss.

 

[set2374]

The correct answer is: it depends.

You need to ask the dealer first if the maker that build the watch you're after really use brand new swiss movements or refurbished. Dealers know exactly what their suppliers are selling.

And if you get a positive answer then yes, go for the swiss.

I believe this issue comes up only with automatic watches with few complications, so they use either J21, A2836, ETA 2836, Selita SW200 or, if its a rolex rep, possibly also an SA3130/SA3135 clone. Everything else is either a clone 7750 or the Asian is reliable and the obvious choice 6497.

Wiz, since I believe you (as TD modder and watchsmith) have more experience with these movements than 99.99% of us, I would ask you the following: If you're going to buy a sub, which movement would you choose? Is it worth spending the $90 to $100 premium for the swiss movement.

[This questions assumes for the same of discussion that you were an typical consumer that isn't going to be swapping movements (which is also 99.99% of the consumers for these watches)].

Finally, the most popular watches now are coming from N-Factory and H-Factory (noobmariner, Sub-C, Steelfish (H-Factory), etc.). Are those two manufacturers using fresh, new ETA movements in Swiss ETA specified watches?

If you're going with the Asian ETA clone movements, are they using better graded movements with proper lubrication?

Sorry to bombard you with questions, but the answers to these questions would be of great interests (and much help) to many of us. Thanks!!!!

 

[gw4k]

Im glad I opted for the Sellita on my AP Diver. I plan on keeping it for years...

 

[Wiz]

I believe this issue comes up only with automatic watches with few complications, so they use either J21, A2836, ETA 2836, Selita SW200 or, if its a rolex rep, possibly also an SA3130/SA3135 clone. Everything else is either a clone 7750 or the Asian is reliable and the obvious choice 6497.

Wiz, since I believe you (as TD modder and watchsmith) have more experience with these movements than 99.99% of us, I would ask you the following: If you're going to buy a sub, which movement would you choose? Is it worth spending the $90 to $100 premium for the swiss movement.

[This questions assumes for the same of discussion that you were an typical consumer that isn't going to be swapping movements (which is also 99.99% of the consumers for these watches)].

Finally, the most popular watches now are coming from N-Factory and H-Factory (noobmariner, Sub-C, Steelfish (H-Factory), etc.). Are those two manufacturers using fresh, new ETA movements in Swiss ETA specified watches?

If you're going with the Asian ETA clone movements, are they using better graded movements with proper lubrication?

Sorry to bombard you with questions, but the answers to these questions would be of great interests (and much help) to many of us. Thanks!!!!

Reading my previous post I feel I need to clarify. Actually it's a question of value for money.

6497 --> The Asians are pretty good. Not as good as the Swiss, but good enough not to go thought the hassle of finding a Swiss movement and having it installed. This of course except for the low beats used by the H-Factory a little while ago (not sure they're still using them) which were complete crap.

7750 --> Swiss is best, but Asian also is a valid option. It can be improved with a service, and considering the cost of a swiss movement, even compared to a serviced asian, it's still a good deal.

28XX --> Go for Swiss, if the dealer can confirm you'll get brand new Swiss in the watch you're after. If not, go for Asian.

And now to answer your question, I always ordered Swiss (28XX). It's just less trouble.

 

[set2374]

Reading my previous post I feel I need to clarify. Actually it's a question of value for money.

6497 --> The Asians are pretty good. Not as good as the Swiss, but good enough not to go thought the hassle of finding a Swiss movement and having it installed. This of course except for the low beats used by the H-Factory a little while ago (not sure they're still using them) which were complete crap.

7750 --> Swiss is best, but Asian also is a valid option. It can be improved with a service, and considering the cost of a swiss movement, even compared to a serviced asian, it's still a good deal.

28XX --> Go for Swiss, if the dealer can confirm you'll get brand new Swiss in the watch you're after. If not, go for Asian.

And now to answer your question, I always ordered Swiss (28XX). It's just less trouble.

Thanks Wiz...


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[Niek]

Well i read this whole thread and am still not sure about it all. I will go the clone route, and if it fails swap it for an ETA 2824-2. There is a seller on ebay from Switzerland that sells them for $199. He's got more than 5000 positive feedback so i'm sure it's all good.
I think this is best because if the parts in a sellita are all chinese made anyway, or even if they were all made in Switzerland, i think it's still all beeing put together in China and i won't be sure if it's all done right and properly lubricated. It could be some clone factory sourcing sellita parts through some backdoor.

So extra money will be spent on what i KNOW is genuine swiss made, and only if the clone dies.

 

[tracy]

I just read all 10 pages and I think my head is going to explode but I do have a better handle on the question of which movement is better. If I got the gist of it, if you really like the watch and want to own it awhile, go Swiss if you have an extra $125.00 available. If you take the ETA Clone option, you will probably be just as happy, until possibly sometime in the future when it does not function anymore and then you will kick yourself for not stepping up earlier, but all is not lost as Wiz or similar can put in a good movement and you are back in business. Thanks to all who added their thoughts.

 

[d4m.test]

Thanks Wiz for the advice on actually asking your dealer. I just asked a TD about getting a 42mm Omega PO with Swiss ETA for $50 more, and he recommended getting the asian clone because he said there's a good chance the ETA was an "old movement"

Seems like Sellita is the only swiss option with a good chance of being new. I'm gonna have to find some wholesale pricing on Sellita movements at the rate I'm going.

 

[mymanmatt]

I build watches, and I can tell you from 25 years experience, swiss eta 2836-2 and 2834-2 are without question the most dependable and reliable movement on the market. That said, I have a YM with the SA 3135, and it has performed flawlessly. Not 1 problem of any kind. The asian 2836 that I have seen recently, seem to work good for a couple of months, and then problems arise. I have watches I built in the 90's with swiss eta 2836-2 that to this day have had no problems. Just my 2 cents

 

[mitchbaria]

I purchased a puretime 116610lb with a 3135 superclone movement. I'm new to the rep world but a long time hobbyist and have disassembled and repaired many Swiss movements. I am curently awaiting the arrival of a TCsub typeII when it arrives I'm going to start making mods to the puretime watch including having a good look at the superclone 3135. I will say without any in depth knowledge, the watch runs very well and keeps time almost perfectly. I will post pics as I get into the superclone movement.