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ARF 16610 LV Submariner 904L Kermit photo review

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    ARF 16610 LV Submariner 904L Kermit photo review

    At long last, we have the first ever 5 digit Sub in 904L. Thank you ARF and Puretime!

    We all know the JF 16610 in 316F, both with and without rehaut engravings. This is the new 904L version making it an ARF. The new 904L Classic Sub is released with no rehaut engravings (at least for now), and this is how we prefer it. Thanks to Angus and ARF for listening. Although it’s a 904 remake of the 316 version, I think they’ve made some improvements like the lugs, cyclops, and clasp. Having just received it I’m a bit excited and my eyes may be tricking me so please chime in. We have many classic Sub veterans here. Those that know me know I’m a die hard ARF, fan so I may be a bit biased

    OK, let’s get the first one out of the way....yes, the dreaded date font. ARF are known for beautiful build quality with tight tolerances and QC. But it’s no secret they’re also infamous for goofing their date fonts on their SH3135. I can say here that the ARF version indeed has an updated DW. That was part of the delay. How improved I’m sure you guys will comment.

    When it comes to Rolex reps, we all obsess over the cyclops, black hold effect. But there is something to be said for the clarity of the whole crystal. A clear crystal will allow the beautiful dial details to shine through. The ARF crystal definitely looks updated to me. The cyclops looks clearer, almost no angled distortion, and even looks to have some halo effect around the cyclops edge.

    The case machining and finishing quality remains. The lug edges look to have a tad more bevel or chamfer, making the lugs appear thinner? The rehaut is nicely finished with the right amount of sheen. The crown screws in butter smooth like a gen. The bezel sits flush with case and turns with a tight, crisp feel. The excellent insert — as we know from the JF — is pressure fit same as genuine, not glued.

    As expected, the bracelet is typical ARF quality. Excellent SEL fit. Excellent smooth gen like brushed finish. Likewise the clasp feels solid when folding and snapping closed. The hidden diver’s extension snaps in/out tightly and feels gen like. The inner clasp is finished as beautifully as the outer. The outer clasp coronet and cut outs look more refined and detailed than even the JF.

    For comparison I have photos next to my beloved JF Kermit 316. To keep the photos simple I went alphabetical. AR is left or top, JF right or bottom.

    I can’t help but wonder if JF will now dwell into more vintage models, both 5 and 4 digit references. I wouldn’t rule anything out
















    #2
    Well you've done it again bro. First to the punch with some spectacular pics and review. So well done!

    I have to say though, I would still take the JF, 316 and all. The wide chamfers and tall crystal are not as well done. And for some reason the 2 on the insert has a hangman's noose.

    I'll still probably get one since you can't get the JF anymore. But side by side like that it's an easy pick for me.

    Thanks for your excellent pics, congrats on a great new piece!
    We are all related in time since time is relative to us all.
    GMT Movements Explained
    BP Rolex 16710 GMT Full Review VS Gen
    Swap your CHS movement to ICHS - possible?
    The Fantasy Watch Thread
    Noob GMT's poor bezel design
    Ceramic insert paint mod

    Double Nine Gonzo!

    Comment


      #3
      Great photo comparison. Well done.

      As already mentioned, the 2 on the new bezel definitely has more of a hook to it than the JF. From what I’ve seen, the JF is more gen like.

      Is the bevel on the lugs a little too pronounced? It does give the lugs a slimmer look. But ....

      The crown guards look a little squared and the crown itself sits more proud of the tips of the CGs.

      Here’s some gen pics. (U serial with lug holes)











      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

      Comment


        #4
        One more




        Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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          #5
          The grey dial text of the JF always bothered me. I’m glad ARF fixed that issue.


          Sent from my iPhone using RWI

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by KJ2020 View Post
            Well you've done it again bro. First to the punch with some spectacular pics and review. So well done!

            I have to say though, I would still take the JF, 316 and all. The wide chamfers and tall crystal are not as well done. And for some reason the 2 on the insert has a hangman's noose.

            I'll still probably get one since you can't get the JF anymore. But side by side like that it's an easy pick for me.

            Thanks for your excellent pics, congrats on a great new piece!
            I bet they are re using 6 digit sub crystals on these new pre ceramic subs.


            Sent from the RWI App

            Comment


              #7
              Great review & comparison.

              The JF wins - but it's a good effort from ARF.

              Comment


                #8
                Thanks for your review!
                I am curious if you can see any difference between 316 and 904L in real life!

                Comment


                  #9
                  Thanks for the review m5smg2. Those stunted crown guards certainly are a curious decision by ARF. Perhaps their R&D department could only get hold of a really badly over-polished gen case for reference...

                  Originally posted by Kayatsu1 View Post
                  I am curious if you can see any difference between 316 and 904L in real life!
                  Some claim to be able to see the difference, and some say that any difference is so minimal (and affected by factors such as quality of polish/brushing) that it's nothing more than smoke and mirrors. Some others have said that 904 is a marketing ploy by the rep makers, and that even if the stainless used is different to 316, it's still not "proper" 904. So, in summary - if the 904L sticker makes you believe that you can see a difference... job done!

                  FrankenSubs! - Subs! - Daytonas! - Seamasters! - A 1675 Adventure - A Budget 6538 build - Tudors! (COMING SOON!)

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by p0pperini View Post
                    Thanks for the review m5smg2. Those stunted crown guards certainly are a curious decision by ARF. Perhaps their R&D department could only get hold of a really badly over-polished gen case for reference...



                    Some claim to be able to see the difference, and some say that any difference is so minimal (and affected by factors such as quality of polish/brushing) that it's nothing more than smoke and mirrors. Some others have said that 904 is a marketing ploy by the rep makers, and that even if the stainless used is different to 316, it's still not "proper" 904. So, in summary - if the 904L sticker makes you believe that you can see a difference... job done!
                    Thank you for your answer! Yes, I am aware of all the debate. I was curious to know if he can find any difference in real life, given the fact that they charge extra bucks for the difference.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Kayatsu1 View Post
                      I was curious to know if he can find any difference in real life, given the fact that they charge extra bucks for the difference.
                      The point I was making was that it doesn't really matter whether one person states that they can see a difference in real life - because it's a been proven by the debates to be a subjective matter. And the "it doesn't really matter" factor is further compounded by the fact that, if you want to buy a new 5-digit rep, then the ARF is your only choice.
                      FrankenSubs! - Subs! - Daytonas! - Seamasters! - A 1675 Adventure - A Budget 6538 build - Tudors! (COMING SOON!)

                      Comment


                        #12
                        I may be wrong, but in pure theory the amount of nickel and other metals used should be able to give to the steel a more white appearance. Then things like the brushing and the polishing affect the way the metal shines. Judging how far even the best rep parts are from gen ones, it will be logic to conclude that even if they are using a different kind of steel, it is still not Rolex grade. Some of the reps I had had a more "yellow" or "Dark" appearance than the gen. Usually I have found that the quality of metal used by ARF is quite good.
                        Last edited by Kayatsu1; 11-08-20, 09:27.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Given a choice I always pick 316 over 904. $100 more for a tiny percentage more *stated* copper and nickel makes no sense to me at all. Seems more likely to me the factories put some other cheap metal in that makes it look shinier. In a game where maximum profits are king, this feature is ripe for abuse.

                          On another note, BP still makes a respectable 16610. The 3135 versions have the date window and cyclops in the correct position.

                          Here's the ETA version for comparison. Not bad for around $300.



                          Last edited by KJ2020; 11-08-20, 14:26.
                          We are all related in time since time is relative to us all.
                          GMT Movements Explained
                          BP Rolex 16710 GMT Full Review VS Gen
                          Swap your CHS movement to ICHS - possible?
                          The Fantasy Watch Thread
                          Noob GMT's poor bezel design
                          Ceramic insert paint mod

                          Double Nine Gonzo!

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Beautiful watch and fantastic write up! Excited to see these 5 digit subs finally getting to people

                            Comment


                              #15
                              This 16610 arf and 116610 zzf v2 best sub out of the box !!!!!

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