ARF GMT 116710 SH3186 photo review

[brandan_20]

The copper washer is under the GMT cover plate in the SH3186, also in gen. It's directly under the dial in the 3185. The 3185 hour wheel does not have a bump stop to rest the hour hand on like the 3186 does. So maybe you aren't pressing the hour hand down far enough to separate it from the GMT hand. You have to be really careful pressing this hand though because too far down and the hand will scratch the dial.

The SH seconds hand is almost always too tight to fit the VR second wheel. It can be broached slightly (hole made larger) with a sewing needle. It needs to be opened up only slightly. You can use a tiny drop of blue locktite either in the hole before pressing or through the hole after pressing. Dab off excess with rodico if needed. Let the locktite congeal a little before pressing if using it under the hand.

Here are some pictures as I installed the hands. I also tested it and let it run as I installed each hand. Everything seams to work fine until I get to the second hand. After that it seams to go to crap and then the minute hand and gmt hand get loose and go out of sequence.

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[KJ2020]

Here are some pictures as I installed the hands. I also tested it and let it run as I installed each hand. Everything seams to work fine until I get to the second hand. After that it seams to go to crap and then the minute hand and gmt hand get loose and go out of sequence.

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Your hour hand could go down a little more than that. There is nothing about pressing the second hand that should ordinarily affect the hands below since the second hand hole collar goes down inside the canon pinion. So if your GMT and minute hands are coming loose, their holes are probably slightly too big for their posts. I had one SH to VR conversion where those two exact hands were doing this very thing. You can carefully crimp the hand hole collars with strong tweezers to make them grip the posts more tightly. You really need to be careful as too much force can contort the visible top side of the hand hole surround. Try to crimp along the same axis as the hand so if you contort the hole surround, it just looks like a slight curve that coincides with the hand's existing curve - it blends in.

Are you having trouble getting the second hand to press on properly? It sounds like it's being difficult and it shouldn't be - a second hand should fit, press and stay without much effort on a normal install. But as I mentioned before, ARF second hand to VR second wheel is most often too tight a fit. If you are going to remove and re-press the hands again (to try crimping) I would determine exactly what's going on with the second hand before pressing the others on. See if it needs to be broached, do so, and make a trial fit. Be very careful with it also, the second wheel pinion is very thin and easily broken. If that happens, the SH second wheel is an acceptable fit as a replacement. It's happened to me.

 

[brandan_20]

KJ2020, your were bang on the money and the problem was exactly what you said. I slightly bent the gmt and minute hand opening and they went on very snug and everything has stayed where it should relative to each other. I still haven't mounted the second hand so I will try that tomorrow. I foolishly forgot to do what you told me to do about test fitting the second hand first prior to the bending and fitting of the other 3 hands so I will have to be careful on the install.

I also set the watch to time and 24 hours later it seams to be off by 10 or so minutes. When you buy a new VR movement are they usually somewhat set to a decent timing? I will barrow a friend timegrapher to test it this weekend.

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[KJ2020]

KJ2020, your were bang on the money and the problem was exactly what you said. I slightly bent the gmt and minute hand opening and they went on very snug and everything has stayed where it should relative to each other. I still haven't mounted the second hand so I will try that tomorrow. I foolishly forgot to do what you told me to do about test fitting the second hand first prior to the bending and fitting of the other 3 hands so I will have to be careful on the install.

I also set the watch to time and 24 hours later it seams to be off by 10 or so minutes. When you buy a new VR movement are they usually somewhat set to a decent timing? I will barrow a friend timegrapher to test it this weekend.

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Glad you are making good progress bro. I've had a couple VR3185 movements that were WAY off from proper regulation. One had a beat error of like 8.0 which is so far off I couldn't even get a s/d reading. You definitely need a timegrapher. Try to set the s/d first and see where your beat error ends up. If the beat error doesn't go to 0.2 or 0.3ms, you should adjust it too. IDK what your experience level is with regulating rep 3135s, LMK if you need help.

 

[brandan_20]

KJ2020, great news, got the second hand on and re-cased the movement! Thank you soooo much for your help, I can honestly say I couldn't have done it without you. I should have the timegrapher tomorrow to look at the timing so I hope it is ok if I'm not done bugging you for help.

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[KJ2020]

KJ2020, great news, got the second hand on and re-cased the movement! Thank you soooo much for your help, I can honestly say I couldn't have done it without you. I should have the timegrapher tomorrow to look at the timing so I hope it is ok if I'm not done bugging you for help.

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Cool, great work. Not bugging me at all bro, it's why we are all here.

 

[Namella73]

How are your movements holding up guys? just got mine serviced by the great OASCOM hope it lasts for a solid year

Got the same watch, mine i have been using for about a month. Seems Ok. Maybe I need to get mine serviced ... what is an OASCOM

 

[brandan_20]

Cool, great work. Not bugging me at all bro, it's why we are all here.

Doesn't really look like it's a timing issue, graph looks like fireworks.

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[KJ2020]

Doesn't really look like it's a timing issue, graph looks like fireworks.

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Make sure the watch is fully wound, about 35 winds.

Make sure your gain is turned up all the way on the timegrapher. At the top right of the screen a sensitivity display should show with the watch running, when you press the up or down arrow buttons.

Also set the watch face up with the caseback off or the movement out. This will give the best chance for an accurate reading.

Next you should focus on your balance assembly. Examine it closely for debris, dust etc. You should get an air puffer and a demagnetizer if you don't have one. Air clean the balance and demagnetize the movement and see if that improves the reading.

If you still don't see an improvement, it can mean a service is needed but I have have gotten past a snowy screen by just cleaning the balance assembly. There is a product called 'One dip', made for this purpose.

If you decide to remove the balance assembly to dip clean it, take care not to turn the adjustment washers under the balance bridge screw holes, they can raise or lower the height at which it is mounted. Every one I've worked on those washers are screwed all the way down but you never know.

https://www.esslinger.com/watch-cleaner-one-dip-hairspring-cleaner-8-oz/

Once the balance is cleaned and demagnetized, attempts at correcting beat error, and regulating timing can be successful.

 

[brandan_20]

Make sure the watch is fully wound, about 35 winds.

Make sure your gain is turned up all the way on the timegrapher. At the top right of the screen a sensitivity display should show with the watch running, when you press the up or down arrow buttons.

Also set the watch face up with the caseback off or the movement out. This will give the best chance for an accurate reading.

Next you should focus on your balance assembly. Examine it closely for debris, dust etc. You should get an air puffer and a demagnetizer if you don't have one. Air clean the balance and demagnetize the movement and see if that improves the reading.

If you still don't see an improvement, it can mean a service is needed but I have have gotten past a snowy screen by just cleaning the balance assembly. There is a product called 'One dip', made for this purpose.

If you decide to remove the balance assembly to dip clean it, take care not to turn the adjustment washers under the balance bridge screw holes, they can raise or lower the height at which it is mounted. Every one I've worked on those washers are screwed all the way down but you never know.

https://www.esslinger.com/watch-cleaner-one-dip-hairspring-cleaner-8-oz/

Once the balance is cleaned and demagnetized, attempts at correcting beat error, and regulating timing can be successful.

Tried all your suggestions, but no luck. Here is a close-up pic of the balance assembly.

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[KJ2020]

Tried all your suggestions, but no luck. Here is a close-up pic of the balance assembly.

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You are missing the lower cap jewel and incabloc clip on your balance assembly. The jewel is fuscia colored, the clip is gold colored. Compare to the VR in this pic.

So with the watch face up, the balance staff is falling loosely through the hole. This would explain the readings. You could try testing it face down it should have better readings but you still need those two parts.

https://youtu.be/NMOPU0iq7M4

Look around inside your case to see if the parts came off and are stuck somewhere.

 

[brandan_20]

They're definitely won't be anything in there I'm quite certain the new VR movement came in that way when I received it. I know I ran the new movement with those thin sheet metal hands it came with for a couple days before preparing to do the swap and I also noticed it was running slow back then. I still have the original SH movement that came with the watch originally can I use the parts from that movement? Or am I better to just buy new replacement parts for the VR movement and if so where can I order those parts from?

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[KJ2020]

They're definitely won't be anything in there I'm quite certain the new VR movement came in that way when I received it. I know I ran the new movement with those thin sheet metal hands it came with for a couple days before preparing to do the swap and I also noticed it was running slow back then. I still have the original SH movement that came with the watch originally can I use the parts from that movement? Or am I better to just buy new replacement parts for the VR movement and if so where can I order those parts from?

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The cap jewel from the SH should fit but I think the KIF spring (correct part name, incabloc is for ETAs) will not. You can see from my pic above they are a different shape. In any case the KIF springs are tiny and fragile and it's a moderate challenge even for a hobbyist with a little skill to remove and replace one of them - they grow wings! What I think I would do at this point is swap the whole balance assembly in from the SH and see what you get. If you want to try a KIF swap yourself I would order about 5 of them and after setting one in place, lay a piece of saran wrap over it and anchor it in position through the wrap.

The VR KIF spring looks like an Elastor 3-3. The first number is the shape, the second number is the length which I measured to be 1.75mm on the VR KIF spring. The Elastor 3-3 is used on a gen 3135

They are $3.00 at jules borel

http://cgi.julesborel.com/cgi-bin/matcgi2?ref=X\ZDXGZJ

https://youtu.be/HiAh4TkN25s

 

[brandan_20]

Thanks so much, just going to order some to have extras as well. Do i get the regular 3-3 or the 3-3BS? Also, ill order some cap jewels to have extras too. Do they sell them as well? Do i get the 516 or the 510?

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[KJ2020]

Thanks so much, just going to order some to have extras as well. Do i get the regular 3-3 or the 3-3BS? Also, ill order some cap jewels to have extras too. Do they sell them as well? Do i get the 516 or the 510?

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Should be the 516 bro. You can DL the Rolex KIF doc here

https://www.cousinsuk.com/document/category/kif

If jules borel doesn't have it (they should), watchmaterial has them. But you have 2 on the SH that should fit. BTW the gen part is $89 for 3, lol.

https://www.watchmaterial.com/cap-je...e-upper-lower/

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rolex-New-G...-/313139998512

 

[Muskandar]

The cap jewel from the SH should fit but I think the KIF spring (correct part name, incabloc is for ETAs) will not. You can see from my pic above they are a different shape. In any case the KIF springs are tiny and fragile and it's a moderate challenge even for a hobbyist with a little skill to remove and replace one of them - they grow wings! What I think I would do at this point is swap the whole balance assembly in from the SH and see what you get. If you want to try a KIF swap yourself I would order about 5 of them and after setting one in place, lay a piece of saran wrap over it and anchor it in position through the wrap.

The VR KIF spring looks like an Elastor 3-3. The first number is the shape, the second number is the length which I measured to be 1.75mm on the VR KIF spring. The Elastor 3-3 is used on a gen 3135

They are $3.00 at jules borel

http://cgi.julesborel.com/cgi-bin/matcgi2?ref=X\ZDXGZJ

https://youtu.be/HiAh4TkN25s

Thank you for posting this information.
stuff like this is extremely helpful to amateur watchmaker enthusiasts like myself.

 

[RiffRalf]

Thank you for posting this information.
stuff like this is extremely helpful to amateur watchmaker enthusiasts like myself.

And always good for the odd "WOW" movements for amateur watchmaker wannabees but know-betters like myself :laughing:

 

[brandan_20]

So my parts came in today but man I'm having a hard time getting the spring in. Any tips? I'm well into 3 hours on this. Thank goodness I order 5 extras like you told me to.

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[KJ2020]

So my parts came in today but man I'm having a hard time getting the spring in. Any tips? I'm well into 3 hours on this. Thank goodness I order 5 extras like you told me to.

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The guy in the first video below shows it best bro. Sharpen a toothpick on a piece of sandpaper to as tiny a point as possible then round the point slightly. It works well like the tool shown in the video. Oh and you didn't say but you should be using a loupe. I use two little magnifier lenses on my glasses arm. One is 3x, the other 5x, combined 8x. So your efforts should be easier once you get used to working under magnification.

BTW the cap jewel is supposed to get a tiny drop of Moebius 9010 on it before fitting it in place. If you are going to be doing any kind of work on watches, I would buy a tiny vial of it and a set of cheap oilers. If not, see what you get for readings. I'm not going to suggest an alternative.

You can watch Mark Lovick putting oil on the underside of a jewel here. Look at 21:00

 

[brandan_20]

The guy in the first video below shows it best bro. Sharpen a toothpick on a piece of sandpaper to as tiny a point as possible then round the point slightly. It works well like the tool shown in the video. Oh and you didn't say but you should be using a loupe. I use two little magnifier lenses on my glasses arm. One is 3x, the other 5x, combined 8x. So your efforts should be easier once you get used to working under magnification.

BTW the cap jewel is supposed to get a tiny drop of Moebius 9010 on it before fitting it in place. If you are going to be doing any kind of work on watches, I would buy a tiny vial of it and a set of cheap oilers. If not, see what you get for readings. I'm not going to suggest an alternative.

You can watch Mark Lovick putting oil on the underside of a jewel here. Look at 21:00

Here is a close-up of the area. It almost seams like there is no undercut of the spring to lock under in?

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