The replica paradox

[Loverboy]

After getting an IWC chronograph from TD Chazing Time, the watch broke down after a few days. TD told that the chronograph buttons was not for use, than the watch would break down. I did´t know that. Now I know, others have confirmed. I was also told by TD that people get their rep watch serviced and oiled before use. Others have confirmed that too. I got hold of a watchsmith with 40 years experience. He could do the service for 300 dollars. That means we choose between a rep (fake) 300-400 dollars chinese watch + 300 dollar service and still got a watch (crappy)with chronbuttons for decoration only, or we can buy a brand new Citizen og Tissot, Swiss watches, with chronobuttons to use as much as I like, for 600 dollars. Fake crap chinese 700 dollars. Original swiss 600 dollars.
Wich leads to the question: Do people here wear their reps or are they for looking at only?

 

[p0pperini]

You're right, they're far too fragile to use. I never wear any of mine, let alone wind them. Why would anyone wind a Chinese watch? In fact, to be extra cautious, I don't even look at them.

 

[R2L]

Yes, that’s the (ugly) down side of owning reps. There is something wrong with just about every rep you buy. Some like yours and certain Rolex GMTs have timebomb movements; known to break at anytime. The thing is, some of these movements work really well straight from the TD, so you never know if you will get a good or bad one.

Some members will replace bad parts in movements with genuine parts to help with the reliability and longevity, or will replace the whole movement. So this hobby can get very expensive very quickly.

Since you are new and this is your first experience with these issues, now is a good time to decide if you stay in or get out. First of all, you will (almost) always lose money on each watch, then, after being in this hobby for a few years you add up how much you have spent on it, you may well have been able to afford a really really nice Swiss gen watch or two. Second, as I said earlier, every rep will have something wrong with it that can drive you crazy after a while. Third, as you have already found out, it is expensive to fix any issue that may come up, assuming you can find someone who will fix it properly, and not screw it up even further.

But, on the other hand, there is more to this hobby than buying reps and hoping that they will last more than a few days/weeks. You meet some incredible people here from all over the globe whom you would not have met otherwise. And you will learn more about watches than you ever thought you would.

So take a bit of time to read what other members have gone through and why some have spent serious $$$ on this hobby, then decide if you want to stay with us or move on. All the best with your decision.


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[schlonz]

But, on the other hand, there is more to this hobby than buying reps and hoping that they will last more than a few days/weeks. You meet some incredible people here from all over the globe whom you would not have met otherwise. And you will learn more about watches than you ever thought you would.

Amen

 

[R2L]

One more thing: rather than getting your watchmaker to service this junk movement, I’d ask him to source a genuine one for you, assuming you want to keep the watch. Price may not be that much more than the cost of the service. Then you can use the chrono functions. The movement is usually the least reliable part of a rep watch, so with a (new) gen movement inside it you should be able to enjoy it for a long time.


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[Loverboy]

That was a very good answer, Ride2live. Thanks

 

[R2L]

You’re not alone, my friend:


https://forum.replica-watch.info/fo...t-s-always-better-to-service-your-new-replica

Enjoy.


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[Hesekiel]

I understand where you are coming from. But you need to bring this into perspective. First, chrono movements are the most complicated ones, aside from esoterica like moonphases, etc. So that's really something to stay away from if reliability matters to you, as it matters to most of us. If you step away from the chronograph, you'll find that many replicas are powered by ETAs which are true workhorses, and usually cost very little to repair or even replace, if it ever comes to that. But I digress . . . many out-of-the-box replicas are powered by copies of an ETA movement, and they run usually very well. Replacing an Asian ETA costs less than $100, and a Swiss one usually less than $200. Those are the very movements that power GEN Tudors and many, many other watches, which is why I personally like Tudors more than Rolexes. You can open 'em up, and even then they look genuine to 99 out of 100 people.

On the other hand, I sold two genuine Rolex Datejusts, both fine examples with Jubi braceletts and papers for around $1,650 just a few years back. There are also lots of fine, genuine watches to be had for less than $2K. Just look at used Tudor Black Bays, to name one example. Or Bell & Ross. Buy one, take care of it, and you have a watch for the rest of your life!

But if you want a watch costing $25,000 to $250,000, you will have to go the replica route. And if you then buy a lookalike out of the box for $250, you will most likely get junk. But there are plenty of Superreps out there that cost $500 and look like a $25,000 watch. You are new to the hobby and just had your first bad experience. Happens. It's up to you to read and learn and ask for advice, or just call it quits.

Which brings me to the perspective part.
There are Frankens out there that cost $5,000, sometimes more to make. But that's a small price to pay for a watch that is indistinguishable from a $250,000 Rolex Daytona, including the movement. At that point it's more than a replica. It's usually a watch that has many original parts, which is why we call it a Franken. In the automotive business there are similar cases. Think of a guy who buys a damaged Ferrari 330GT, then spends another $100K to have an aluminum 250GTO body made in Italy. He then sources all the missing parts, some old originals, some reproductions. He ends up with a $300,000 replica of a 250GTO, that's all Ferrari, with aluminum body, Ferrari V12, and only an expert would be able to tell. Yes, $300K is expensive for a replica, but it's only 1% of a genuine $30M original. So if you are aiming to own a replica that looks and functions just like an original, don't shop in the $300 section. For me, a bad replica is something to avoid. Nothing more embarrassing than wearing a watch that obviously is a fake. A chrono without functions is such a watch. Live and learn. We all do.

 

[Loverboy]

I have not looked at every trusted dealers catalogues, but most of the watches I´ve seen are 3-4-500 dollars. And in the add they write thing like: "movement plate and rotor which are made according to the genuine movement, the best looking AP Calibre 3126 Movement Clone at the moment." or "New Slim Asian Chronograph movement running seconds at 6 position, 1:1 same thickness as genuine movement (IWC Calibre 79350). Much more reliable than the previous A7750 modified movement. But still they break down fast. The TDs description of the watch is as it is good quality. Shouldn´t we trust the trusted dealer, trust that the quality is good when said so in the add? Isn´t that why they are trusted? Not everybody have the time to study and read like they are running for a bachelors degree in watches, but just want to find a dealer to trust, to buy a watch or two that they like, without the somewhat high risk of watch-collapse after a short while.

 

[Hesekiel]

Again, I understand that you are frustrated, but you need to take the time to study this stuff. There's a great post out there from a trusted seller on how they operate. I hope somebody else can provide the link. It will give you an insight into the workings of the industry. It's not a exaggeration to state that these watches are made with cheap Chinese workers in dark back rooms. Otherwise, a great replica would cost many times as much.

 

[Art Tic]

Like OP, I have no luck on reps with the A7750 movement and only slightly better luck on ST-19. I rarely serviced my reps (prefer to spend the money on new reps), so I stay off the chrono function. If you really want chrono function, get the Noob Daytona. My v2 is about one year old and still runs like a champ.

 

[Loverboy]

To clear out something. I am not frustrated And I did buy a chrone the other day, a Seiko, quartz, 129 dollars. Will probably run forever. So I´m fine with the chronograph.

But there are some other nice watches in the TDs catalogues (no chrono, no no). Bulgari Octo, Jaeger Lecoultre, Breguet, Patek Phillipe Nautilus, AP Royal Oak. And until recently I thought that I could buy one or two or three of these from a trusted dealer and be shure that he would provide me a watch that is like what it says in the add, a 1:1 copy (I understand that it cannot be 100 % exact copy) with a decent movement that will last for some years. But lately I found out that is probably not the case. I might be given a crappy quality watch from a trusted dealer because I havent studied before buying. That doesn´t make me frustrated, it only make me see that the world is like I know it is from before when it comes to money is given from one hand to another. It still involves risk, trusted dealer or no trusted dealer.

And that basically sum up all of your buyings, from food to dishwashers to furniture to rep watches to everything, and that is a bit of a problem from a consumers point of view. have to study everything before buying. If you haven´t studied the market you will be given cheap apples and grapes iinstead of cherries in the cherry-jam, you have to be aware, do the right qualified choice based on studying. It should be enough to trust you local dealer. Your trusted dealer.

 

[michel7752]

After getting an IWC chronograph from TD Chazing Time, the watch broke down after a few days. TD told that the chronograph buttons was not for use, than the watch would break down. I did´t know that. Now I know, others have confirmed. I was also told by TD that people get their rep watch serviced and oiled before use. Others have confirmed that too. I got hold of a watchsmith with 40 years experience. He could do the service for 300 dollars. That means we choose between a rep (fake) 300-400 dollars chinese watch + 300 dollar service and still got a watch (crappy)with chronbuttons for decoration only, or we can buy a brand new Citizen og Tissot, Swiss watches, with chronobuttons to use as much as I like, for 600 dollars. Fake crap chinese 700 dollars. Original swiss 600 dollars.
Wich leads to the question: Do people here wear their reps or are they for looking at only?

Original watch (Tissot, Citizen): 600 dollars.
Fake crap Chinese watch (Rolex, IWC): 700 dollars. PLUS A TON of prestige and recognition ($$$€€€£££¥¥¥₩₩₩$$$).

There is no paradox.

Welcome to the rep world.

 

[Rainbowkin]

For this matter I choose to own only super reps for both functionality and looks. They keep me away from wasting money on repairing them or spending the premium on buying a gen.

 

[YellowFin]

One way to avoid that is buying reps that use ETA copies. Once it breaks down, you can replace it with the Swiss one and it will literally run forever (with ~5 year service intervals). I also try to avoid full custom Chinese movements that no one here can service and will break down a lot faster than even the cheapest Swiss movement...

 

[TBK]

I have a lot of watches that house a 7750 movement. Some already run for 10years without a problem. It’s not I use the chrono daily, but I if I need it, I use it.

But I agree that a relative large part of watches have a fault. Gens can also have a fault, but let’s say less than 1% to 20% in the rep world. We can’t expect the same level of quality in a rep. But on the other hand, for a 400 or 500 dollar watch, flaws like a miss aligned datewheel or something like that should not exist. Movements should be clean, oiled and regulated. But most rep factories just build a the watch and throw in a standard Chinese movement. Many of us would pay more for serviced movement direct from the factory/dealer.

Still, let’s say 20% of my watches every had a issue at one point. That still beats the price of one gen

 

[GBB_19NHS]

I agree it can be a bit hit or miss and problems can come up. If you stay in the rep game certainly try to find a local watchsmith to work with to keep costs down if you do require workover. I am pretty sure you could find somebody that will do it for cheaper than 300.

Looking into what movement your rep will have before purchasing is also key as noted above. Going for ETA should make future issues easier to handle.

 

[Beware of the Dog]

If the O.Ps recent Seiko purchase were to stop working , I'm sure he would just take it back to the shop and get a replacement.

Here in the U.K. at least, If you buy something new or otherwise from a dealer, as opposed to a private vendor, and it turns out to be " not fit for purpose " you are afforded exactly the same rights as if buying from a shop. The seller would be bound by law to ; A. repair the fault, B. replace the item or C. refund the payment.

Just send the watch back.

 

[Rx4Time]

You're right, they're far too fragile to use. I never wear any of mine, let alone wind them. Why would anyone wind a Chinese watch? In fact, to be extra cautious, I don't even look at them.

Rumor has it that even if you talk too loud around one they can implode.....

 

[Beware of the Dog]

You're right, they're far too fragile to use. I never wear any of mine, let alone wind them. Why would anyone wind a Chinese watch? In fact, to be extra cautious, I don't even look at them.

I literally : Laughed out Loud.