• Tired of adverts on RWI? - Subscribe by clicking HERE and PMing Trailboss for instructions and they will magically go away!

Tale of a rivet dial - [pics heavy]

kilowattore

Sales Moderator / Section Moderator
Staff member
Moderator Sales
Section Moderator
Certified
11/5/13
13,593
5,719
113
Italy
Vintage Panerai 3646 with prototype dial
Tale of a rivet dial


Get your reading glasses on because I have a lot to write on this project :)

During my constant research on vintage PAMs I encountered a few pics of a very special and diverse 3646, one with a prototype dial made of three layers: a brass disc used as a base, a black mid layer on which the lume was applied and a top layer made of plexiglass. The three layers were held together by two rivets placed on the sides fo the center hole. It was a very special dial and a very special watch, this is the pic that started it all:

Rahmen_Bild_VP2_02.jpg


Obviously, as soon as I saw it I wanted to build one, so I started searching for sources for a dial. Eventually I found Radiomires on HF produced a small batch of these a while ago, the study behind the dial was phenomenal and the result was totally awesome. Dials were produced using a process very similar to the gen one, biggest difference was the numbers and indices were engraved on the back of the plexi. The result was so close to the gen and so beautiful that it hurt.
Needless to say those dials are long gone and those who have one are sticking to it not wanting to let go such a beauty. I do understand them :)









Anyway, Steph_Dexter saw my WTB and replied telling me "Mate, why don't you let me try and make one of these for you? I think I can do it". Of course my reply was "make two of 'em while your at it :)"
Dials production took a while, but the attention to detail SD showed was great as usual and the final result was way beyond my expectations.
Here are some pics of one of the dials SD produced for me:













As you can see this dial is simply top notch, no less. The engravings are crisp, there is no "pixelation" effect like visible in Athaya's dials. From what I can tell SD used a similar process as Radiomires, a brass base plate and a back-engraved plexi top layer held by rivets. One thing worth mentioning is numbers and indices are not lumed, just painted. Another important feature is the plexi disc itself being domed and thinning out towards the edges.



This is a very important feature, as a matter of fact this is THE reason I could use this dial on a thin NW "cali" case set, although the assembly is now very tight inside the case. The builders know that these cases use a movement ring which is designed to accept a thin 0.8 - 1.0 mm dial (like the cali dial that gives it its name), while these rivet dials are 1.5mm+ thick at the center.







Now let's go fast forward a few months. I am talking with a friend about, guess what, vintage PAMs and he mentions how he'd like to find a rivet dial, so I tell him
"I'm your man mate, I have two great dials SD made for me and I'm building one right now" and show him some pics.

Friend
"You have two? Then build two watches, one for you and one for your friend in a distant country which shares the same addiction"

And here's why you're seeing two almost identical watches in the pics here :)







A few details needed to be sorted before the build was finished. My obvious case choice, as stated above, was NW's case as I find it the best shaped case available by far. I got two of them, one from the older batch and one from the most recent updated batch. Can I say he perfected perfection? I'll let you guess which is which, those who will see the subtle difference will be amazed :)









Then, blue hands. I wanted them to be heat blued, not anodized, but at the same time I did not want to mess with broaching hands as I never tried it. I hope I'm not excessively boring with this umpth technical detail, but the biggest problem the builders have with blued hands is the lack of a tube. You need the CP to stick out tall over the dial or you won't have enough clearance for the hands to rotate. Athaya went around the problem using anodized blue hands with a tall tube, the look is nice but the blue isn't deep enough. The color changes of a proper SS heat blued handset are unobtainable through anodizing.





River approached the problem installing a SS tube after blueing the hands. It's a clever solution although this way you can see a metal rim around the hand hole at certain angles. Very good yet still not perfect, anyway the only solution I was aware of except a set of binbin hands.





I thought NW was selling the same hands as River, they looked ok for the project so I went ahead and ordered a couple of sets. Much to my surprise the hands where nothing like expected, they were far better instead!
These are the first blued hands I see which are not only broached to size, but feature a tube which is part of the hand itself. Hands have been relumed and slightly rusted, one set a bit more than the other. The only let down is the segmented hour hand which is incorrect compared to reference.
Of course using NW hands required installation of a H4 HW+CP set on the a6497 I used in order to allow clearance of the thick dial and the extra thickness added by the rivets. This was not difficult at all... :)





Well, this is it.
The rest of build proceeded more or less in the usual way, case shaping, soldering lugs and crown tube, aging, refinishing. To be more adherent to the reference pic I opted for a clean polished finish on the watches. Like I did with hands, one of the cases is a little more aged than the other in order to maintain a subtle difference between the watches.













Both straps come from Bakeka, both with hidden rivets. He can make them with any leather hide he has in stock and it's such a clever solution for fixed lugbars.

Here are a few more pics:























Hope you enjoyed the reading and pics, new projects coming soon!
 
Last edited:

mskwatch

I'm Pretty Popular
12/3/15
2,289
414
83
EU
Amazing write-up, thanks for sharing. Didn't knew about this kind of dials.
 

ssclassa80

Renowned Member
Supporter
1/5/13
813
37
28
Great score on the dial, mine says hello

534184ca620b1425ccd16c0baff1cafd.jpg



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 

Dinkis

Active Member
Supporter
Certified
23/8/15
452
46
28
Michigan, USA
It is stories like these that make the hobby and the forums something more. Grazie mille!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

jvilla510

I'm Pretty Popular
23/7/13
1,926
132
0
WOW!! Great read and Awesome pictures. Who is the lucky friend that gets to have the other one? The Rivet Dial is on my list, beautiful watch and topnotch skills my friend. Wear it in good health!

I think I need another PAM...
 

mysterio

Mythical Poster
Advisor
19/8/08
9,794
863
0
WOW!! Great read and Awesome pictures. Who is the lucky friend that gets to have the other one? The Rivet Dial is on my list, beautiful watch and topnotch skills my friend. Wear it in good health!

I think I need another PAM...

@kilowattore is sending it to me as my welcome gift to the moderation team. :lmao:

Simply outstanding writeup on the history of the rivet dial, which probably not even a lot of Risti know about and how your specific watch build(s) came to be. :thumbsup: Please do wrap it carefully in four layers of bubblewrap and triple boxed. :D
 

kilowattore

Sales Moderator / Section Moderator
Staff member
Moderator Sales
Section Moderator
Certified
11/5/13
13,593
5,719
113
Italy
@kilowattore is sending it to me as my welcome gift to the moderation team. :lmao:

Simply outstanding writeup on the history of the rivet dial, which probably not even a lot of Risti know about and how your specific watch build(s) came to be. :thumbsup: Please do wrap it carefully in four layers of bubblewrap and triple boxed. :D

Sorry you got me wrong, this was meant for you:

900_871256Nwd9_panerai-watch-cake.jpg


It's going to be delivered in the staff rooms :lol:
 

mysterio

Mythical Poster
Advisor
19/8/08
9,794
863
0
Sorry you got me wrong, this was meant for you:

900_871256Nwd9_panerai-watch-cake.jpg


It's going to be delivered in the staff rooms :lol:

The "2" is wrong, the bar on the A in PANERAI is too high, R is mishapen, bezel slope isn't as sharp as it should be and the crown is fat, which is wrong for this model, not to mention lume application is sloppy. Please have those corrected before bringing it to the staff room. Nothing ruins my appetite faster than a grossly inaccurate build. :lmao:
 

Thrasher

Legendary Member
15/4/14
13,198
2,289
113
The Beach
I had these two built for me by Black_Shark.
3646 California, still not sure about the hands and I polished the case back up to remove the circular marks now it looks age worn

_MG_2098.jpg

_MG_2096.jpg

_MG_2094.jpg


6154
_MG_1492.jpg

_MG_1489.jpg

6154%205.jpg

6154%20bs.jpg

Tribute to this genuine
Page%2027%20Ref%206154%20Pan.%20Egiziano.jpg
 

jvilla510

I'm Pretty Popular
23/7/13
1,926
132
0
@kilowattore is sending it to me as my welcome gift to the moderation team. :lmao:

Simply outstanding writeup on the history of the rivet dial, which probably not even a lot of Risti know about and how your specific watch build(s) came to be. [emoji106] Please do wrap it carefully in four layers of bubblewrap and triple boxed. :D
Congratulations, awesome build from a great member.

I think I need another PAM...
 

mysterio

Mythical Poster
Advisor
19/8/08
9,794
863
0
Lol, OK. Congrats to Dinkins then, does Mysterio get the cake? I kinda wanted a slice...

I think I need another PAM...

I'd be happy with the cake, but the watch would probably have me over the moon with happiness. :)
 

Thrasher

Legendary Member
15/4/14
13,198
2,289
113
The Beach
@kilowattore This is an absolutely fantastic write up and the detail is so helpful for us who are always looking for the next great build. I will for sure use this as a guide in my next adventure. Thank You
 

kilowattore

Sales Moderator / Section Moderator
Staff member
Moderator Sales
Section Moderator
Certified
11/5/13
13,593
5,719
113
Italy
@jvilla510 you're gonna have your cake once you'll become a member of the staff :lol:

@mysterio I'd be honoured to build a watch for you.

@Thrasher thanks for the kind words. I'm looking at your pics and I can't determine the maker of those blued hands, do you know it?
 

Thrasher

Legendary Member
15/4/14
13,198
2,289
113
The Beach
@jvilla510 you're gonna have your cake once you'll become a member of the staff :lol:

@mysterio I'd be honoured to build a watch for you.

@Thrasher thanks for the kind words. I'm looking at your pics and I can't determine the maker of those blued hands, do you know it?


No I don't know who but I do know it's the third set, First set lume to Dark, Second set minute hand to long crossing minute track, Third set it seems that the hands are continuing to age and get dark, Fourth set is on my little watch desk and I haven't got around to installing them. I also think the Cali dial should be gloss. Sometimes these builds can get a little frustrating as I'm sure you are well aware. I do love HF and need to spend more time talking to NW and River.
 

kilowattore

Sales Moderator / Section Moderator
Staff member
Moderator Sales
Section Moderator
Certified
11/5/13
13,593
5,719
113
Italy
No I don't know who but I do know it's the third set, First set lume to Dark, Second set minute hand to long crossing minute track, Third set it seems that the hands are continuing to age and get dark, Fourth set is on my little watch desk and I haven't got around to installing them. I also think the Cali dial should be gloss. Sometimes these builds can get a little frustrating as I'm sure you are well aware. I do love HF and need to spend more time talking to NW and River.

You're going to have a hard time sourcing a gen-like gilt Cali dial. They have been made, but they're long gone and almost impossible to find...
 

Thrasher

Legendary Member
15/4/14
13,198
2,289
113
The Beach
You're going to have a hard time sourcing a gen-like gilt Cali dial. They have been made, but they're long gone and almost impossible to find...

I thought NW said his Dial was Gloss???? Oh well not a hurry, I'm in the middle of another build that's gone a bit overboard so one thing at a time.
 

kilowattore

Sales Moderator / Section Moderator
Staff member
Moderator Sales
Section Moderator
Certified
11/5/13
13,593
5,719
113
Italy
I thought NW said his Dial was Gloss???? Oh well not a hurry, I'm in the middle of another build that's gone a bit overboard so one thing at a time.

I am trying NW's dial soon so I will have first hand opinion for you :)
From pics I don't think it's made like the gen though, the gen is made like the gilt Rolex dials. The golden rail track and rims around the indices are "cut" from the black paint leaving the brass behind visible.