Mini review ZF PAM616 Carbotec

[chris3007]

Today I got a ZF PAM616 from a customer, because the carbon crown is broken.

This is the first time I have a Carbotec in my hands and the disappointment is HUGE!

If I have seen the first pics of the gen 616 I was really excited to see a good rep of that watch because I like carbon watches. But I never have bought one because the pics of the reps have not convinced me.
And looks like I was right.

The first thing was the weight. I have expected a super light carbon watch but the ZF Carbotec is heavier than my KW 389!

Ok, it's just one gram but hey, it's carbon next to a TI watch!!

The next thing I have noticed is the carbon case is not very good manufactured.

Everywhere little holes and grooves

The side of the case looks like a old piece of plastic, very shabby.

Next thing is the bezel. The painting at the bezel is not very clean.

The lume is blue and very poor for a PAM!

Both watches were 120sec under a UV lamp.

And this is the result

And the next big thing, but a well known issue, is the noisy A7750 movement. But it's extra loud with a carbon/plastic case.
Reason of the loudness is once again the movement deco, and totally useless with a closed case back.

Look and listen how wobbly and loud the rotor is

https://vimeo.com/147617998

So after all I have to say I will never buy a ZF PAM616.

But to be fair, I just have seen that one 616 from ZF and never one from KW. Maybe some other models are better manufactured, I don't know but I hope so.


Sent from my iPad Air 2

 

[TheDonSL]

Today I got a ZF PAM616 from a customer, because the carbon crown is broken.

This is the first time I have a Carbotec in my hands and the disappointment is HUGE!

If I have seen the first pics of the gen 616 I was really excited to see a good rep of that watch because I like carbon watches. But I never have bought one because the pics of the reps have not convinced me.
And looks like I was right.

The first thing was the weight. I have expected a super light carbon watch but the ZF Carbotec is heavier than my KW 389!

Ok, it's just one gram but hey, it's carbon next to a TI watch!!

The next thing I have noticed is the carbon case is not very good manufactured.

Everywhere little holes and grooves

The side of the case looks like a old piece of plastic, very shabby.

Next thing is the bezel. The painting at the bezel is not very clean.

The lume is blue and very poor for a PAM!

Both watches were 120sec under a UV lamp.

And this is the result

And the next big thing, but a well known issue, is the noisy A7750 movement deco. But it's extra loud with a carbon/plastic case.
Reason of the loudness is once again the movement deco, and totally useless with a closed case back.

Look and listen how wobbly and loud the rotor is

https://vimeo.com/147617998

So after all I have to say I will never buy a ZF PAM616.

But to be fair, I just have seen that one 616 from ZF and never one from KW. Maybe some other models are better manufactured, I don't know but I hope so.


Sent from my iPad Air 2

Great review Chris! I have read that the ZF was inferior to the KW and agree with your review, however I myself have still not seen the KW in person, so I cannot judge for sure if it's good. I do have some friends though that love their KW 616.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[AP_VC]

Typical ZF build quality!

 

[hublotkingpower]

This is the reason why I'll never buy a ZF for any watch. Quality always seem subpar to the competitions :/


Sent from my KW iPhone V3

 

[mysterio]

So the ZF PAM616 is heavier than the PAM389 even missing the crown?! :lol: Not sure what's up with those weights. Here are mine from my PAM rep weight database.

PAM616, KW, Carbotech - 113 grams
PAM389, ZF, Titanium - 123 grams

Do take note the PAM616 is not entirely made of the Carbotech material. Internally the movement holder is still stainless steel. It can be seen in the gap between the bezel and the midcase. But my PAM616 is still lighter by around 8% than the PAM389.

 

[senna]

Completely agree with Chris and others here.
I have no idea why folks still buy ZF watches.

I made the mistake of buying a piece last year and would not go near another again.
Very shabby build quality!

 

[ALE7575]

Thanks chris for this nice pictorial and mini-review

I like it a lot because your thread is usueful and enough to get an evaluation of ZF PAM 616

As you all surely know I never liked Carbotech reps, I considered the material and finish very inaccurate. But ZF PAM 616 is going beyond the acceptable. Really bad and disappointing

Another weird thing is the weight, although mysterio weights are more credible than chris ones it looks that the Carbotech weight is still higher than expected

Rep points added and thanks again chris

ALE

 

[kloop999]

Hello everyone,

I recently bought the PAM 616 ZF from toro and the quality of the watch is dramatically different from the one you showed in the pictures. I work with aerospace composites every day and I think the finishing of the watch is flawless, considering the material they had to cut. There are no visible voids or delaminations anywhere. The lume is definetly green, its not incredibly bright but it's nice. I have many watches (also gen IWC, MIH...) and i think the watch quality is definetly there. I'm not affiliated with anybody, I just want to give my respect to who made the replica I bought (that most likely is a later revision, compared to the one you had to repair) and that made a really good job with a material really difficult to work with.

Here are some random pictures of the watch (ad a couple taken with a 30x microscope). Let me know if you want to see or know anything specific on my watch.

 

[chris3007]

Interesting, your sure your 616 is from ZF?


Sent from my iPhone 6

 

[kloop999]

That's what i bought from toro (just double checked the order)... i don't know if there is a definitive way to recognize one from the other

 

[mysterio]

That's what i bought from toro (just double checked the order)... i don't know if there is a definitive way to recognize one from the other

That's a KW/V6F PAM616. Can you take a photo of the grooves and the dots on the subdial with the microscope? Thanks.

 

[AP_VC]

That's a KW/V6F PAM616. Can you take a photo of the grooves and the dots on the subdial with the microscope? Thanks.

Yep, that's definitely a KW!

 

[mysterio]

Yep, that's definitely a KW!

By the way, the definitive way to tell is the lume, the V6F version comes with green lume (same as the website), the ZF comes with the "correct" blue lume (as the ad says).

 

[kloop999]

That's a KW/V6F PAM616. Can you take a photo of the grooves and the dots on the subdial with the microscope? Thanks.

here is the subdial

 

[umaxim]

I had KW/V6 version and can testify that build quality is superb... the rotor was noisy though...

 

[kloop999]

I have 3 GEN with the ETA 7750 (IWC, Hamilton and MIH) and I have to say that the rotor on the PAM is not that incredibly noisy....

 

[undercoverz]

ZF is usually a killjoy that one should avoid...

 

[mysterio]

ZF is usually a killjoy that one should avoid...

ZF is actually doing very well currently with the Portuguese and is rumored to be coming out with the DLCed titanium PAM617/629 as well as a PAM423 with a working PR gauge, so don't generalize. Many times the situation changes. V6F/KW is now releasing PAM reps with that horrible CP.

 

[Norrie]

ZF is actually doing very well currently with the Portuguese and is rumored to be coming out with the DLCed titanium PAM617/629 as well as a PAM423 with a working PR gauge, so don't generalize. Many times the situation changes. V6F/KW is now releasing PAM reps with that horrible CP.

Glad I found this thread because I just sent payment for this exact KW watch from another member who bought it from kloop999 and these pics and comments are good to see.

What I find odd is that the only reference I can to blue lume being correct for the 616 on the web if in reference to the ZF rep. Also, Panerai still has the green lume on their website. So I'm not convinced that the gen actually has blue lume unless someone can point me to reference on the contrary.

 

[mysterio]

Glad I found this thread because I just sent payment for this exact KW watch from another member who bought it from kloop999 and these pics and comments are good to see.

What I find odd is that the only reference I can to blue lume being correct for the 616 on the web if in reference to the ZF rep. Also, Panerai still has the green lume on their website. So I'm not convinced that the gen actually has blue lume unless someone can point me to reference on the contrary.

I think the general consensus is the lume on the gen PAM616 is green.