Just another little guide about the most common movements in our beloved replicas.
This it the guide for noobs, elders already know much more, than me.
There’s a few movements factories in China – Tianjin, Shanghai, Hangzhou, Guangzhou, Liaocheng, Nanning and Liaoning.
[FONT="]The most well known movement factories are Tianjin Seagull, Shanghai Watch Co, and Guangzhou Dixmont. Seagull produce clones of ETA movements, and tons of in-house movements, mostly low beat (21,600bph). The best chinese made tourbillons, ST-800 series, come from Seagull factory. Shanghai manufacture 3L series (hi-beat 28,800) chrono movements, mostly clones of Valjoux7750 and Valjoux7753. They also produce plenty of in-house movements, including tourbillons. Guangzhou Dixmont is famous for their DG series – from the simplest DG-2813 (infamous 21j), to the most complicated tourbillons DG-8000 series, manual and auto.
[/FONT] DG Series:
So, let’s start with Guangzhou Dixmont movements, because it’s the most common movements in our replicas.
DG-2813, actually, is not 21 jewels, but 22 jewels movement. Old ones were with 21 jewel, but nowadays they improved this movement significantly, and now all DG-2813 have 22 jewels.
[FONT="]Here’s a few pictures of DG-2813 from Dixmont Dixmont logo circled in red.
[FONT="]Recently Dixmont introduced DG-2813-2S, hi-beat movement, that some of our dealers tried to pass as a “clone†movement in SOSF V2 and some other watches. According to reviews, it’s quite crappy movement.
[FONT="]The only hi-beat movement from Dixmont is DG-4813, actually, 2 modifications of this movement – DG-4813H (with tall cannon pinion), and DG-4813L (with shorter cannon pinion). We can see these movements in some of our replicas.
[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]ETA clones:
Highly desirable ETA 2824-2 and ETA 2836-2 were cloned by Seagull factory and Hangzhou factory.
Seagull ST-2100 is the clone of ETA2836-2, ST-2130 – clone of ETA2824-2.
[FONT="]Hangzhou make 6300 movement, clone of 2824-2, and 6311, clone of 2836-2. They also make hi-beat movement 6460, with GMT module. Recently Lianing factory introduced SL3000, the clone of ETA2824-2, but no reliable data available yet.
[/FONT] There’s many reviews, comparing Seagull clones with Hangzhou clones, and the opinion is – both are almost equal quality. But in my personal experiense – Seagull clones way superior to any others.
How to didstinguish genuine movement from clone? Here’s a few clues. (But I might be wrong…)
#1 – notice lack of the stamp on clone.
#2 – position of “DM†stamp is wrong on clone.
#3 – the curve is more flat on clone. On earlier clones this line was completely straight.
[FONT="]#4 – when you’ll wind up the movement manually- you’ll feel the difference immediately. Genuine ETA is way smoother.
[/FONT]
Infamous 3135 clone.
[FONT="]Can’t even call it a “cloneâ€, it’s so far from genuine Rolex 3135, that even a noob with zero experiense will see the difference. The reliability of this ovement is questionable. ETA hands will fit this movement, because it’s based on ETA2836-2, but look won’t fit for sure. Damn, they couldn’t even make “3135†engraving in line…
Genuine Rolex 3135:
Clone:
[/FONT] Miyota 9015.
Last year Miyota introduced the new, hi-beat movement, M9015, with 24 jewels, and hacking mechanism.
[FONT="]Replicas factories already use this movement in some of our watches. Excellent alternative to the clones, and for today’s price of only $38 it’s a steal.
[/FONT] Valjoux/ETA 7750 and 7753 clones:
[FONT="]The best A7750 and A7753 come from Shanghai Watch Co. Others (Liaoning, for example) tried to make similar clones, but didn’t go farther, than making low beat chrono movements. Even old Shanghai clones were low beat, but now they make a whole line of 3L chrono movements, that replicas factories use in our watches.
The difference between A7750 and A7753 is the subdials layout. A7750 has 6-9-12 subdials layout, with seconds @9, and A7750 has 3-6-9 layout, with seconds @9 too. Any attempts to transfer seconds to 3, 6, or 12 position, usually (not always!!!) create a “ticking bomb†movement, because these “modifications†were made without adding new jewels, and “metal on metal†friction usually leads to movement’s death. Buying such a watch is always the risky business.
[/FONT]We heard about “Modified 29 jewels A7750â€, but, after some detailed investigations by some great modders, and was said, that there’s no any extra jewels in movement. And here we have one little mystery…
[FONT="]GenuineValjoux 7750/7753 have 25/27 jewels. Surprisingly, according to Shanghai Factory technical drawings and catalog – A7750 has 30 jewels, and A7753 has 35 jewels. I’ve talked to Shanghai Technical Dept. representative recently, and he confirmed it.
There’s one more Seagull chrono movement, that rep. factories use in watches, like Breitling Navitimer, and our dealers claim it as A7750, but it’s 3LZF3-4, with 3-6-9 subdials layout, but Date regulated thru crown, not by pusher @10, like on A7753.
[FONT="][FONT="]There’s a few more Valjoux 77XX movements, like 7758 (Con Cours De Luna), or 7751-2, with full calendar and real moonphase, but there’s no good replications of these movements exist.
[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
BIG DATE A7750:
[FONT="]We all know Breitling for Bentley replica, that has the movement with big date @12, claimed by our dealers to be A7750. Wrong. No such a model of A7750 exist. What does exist, it’s Shanghai 3LZF12 movement, with 19 jewels. Very reliable engine, by the way.
[/FONT] Manual movements – Unitas 6497/6498, and Venus 175.
[FONT="]Unitas 6497 is the most popular movements in many Panerai replicas. Made at Seagull factory (ST-3600). It has 17 jewels, seconds subdial at 9, and it’s very reliable movement. 6498 model also has 17 jewels, but seconds subdial at 6. I’ve seen many of highly decorated 6497s, made by various movement manufacturers in Europe.
Our clones ain’t bad too!!!
Venus 175 (mistakenly called “Lemaniaâ€) clone is made by Seagull, and the simplest model is ST-1901, with 23 jewels, and 2 chrono subdials. The most complicated is ST-1908, with 3 subdials, and real moonphase.
There’s also ST-1902, ST-1903, 4, 5, etc, some with power reserve indicator, date, etc. In general ST19 series is the most reliable line of manual movements ever. Seagull also make ST-1940, same movement, as ST-1901, but automatic. In my last conversation with Seagull people, I was told, that this movement production was put on hold.
[/FONT] GMT movements.
To put the end to debate about “fefurbished movements with GMT modulesâ€, as well, as to “refurbished ETA movements†in our replicas, I should say – most of the factories produce in-house GMT movements, designed with GMT function.
Some are low beat, most are hi-beat.
[FONT="]Seagull ST-1690 GMT, low beat:
Seagull ST-6322 GMT, hi-beat:
Hangzhou 6460, GMT, hi-beat:
Guangzhou Dixmont – DG-3804 series, low beat:
[/FONT]
Other popular movements.
[FONT="]Seagull ST-2530, automatic movement with Power Reserve module, designed by Seagull, and used in PAM090, IWC Big Pilot, and many other replicas. Easily recognizable by distrinct balance wheel holder.
[FONT="]Seagull ST-1655, automatic movements with year/month/day/date/moonphase, often used in Patek Philippe Complications watches (this is not a modified 21j!!!)
And, finally, [FONT="]Seagull ST-1722 – low beat movement with jumping hours hand, used in our beloved Franck Muller “Crazy Hours†watch.
[FONT="]I didn’t write too much of technical information, like hands sizes, etc, because you can steal and enlarge the drawings, and you’ll see all the details, if interested. I also didn’t translate chinese text on some drawing, I’m sure, most of you can read chinese.
[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]So, that’s all for now. Enjoy!!!
Oh, and congratulations to Luth with his 4000th post!
[FONT="][/FONT]
This it the guide for noobs, elders already know much more, than me.
There’s a few movements factories in China – Tianjin, Shanghai, Hangzhou, Guangzhou, Liaocheng, Nanning and Liaoning.
[FONT="]The most well known movement factories are Tianjin Seagull, Shanghai Watch Co, and Guangzhou Dixmont. Seagull produce clones of ETA movements, and tons of in-house movements, mostly low beat (21,600bph). The best chinese made tourbillons, ST-800 series, come from Seagull factory. Shanghai manufacture 3L series (hi-beat 28,800) chrono movements, mostly clones of Valjoux7750 and Valjoux7753. They also produce plenty of in-house movements, including tourbillons. Guangzhou Dixmont is famous for their DG series – from the simplest DG-2813 (infamous 21j), to the most complicated tourbillons DG-8000 series, manual and auto.
[/FONT] DG Series:
So, let’s start with Guangzhou Dixmont movements, because it’s the most common movements in our replicas.
DG-2813, actually, is not 21 jewels, but 22 jewels movement. Old ones were with 21 jewel, but nowadays they improved this movement significantly, and now all DG-2813 have 22 jewels.
[FONT="]Here’s a few pictures of DG-2813 from Dixmont Dixmont logo circled in red.
[FONT="]Recently Dixmont introduced DG-2813-2S, hi-beat movement, that some of our dealers tried to pass as a “clone†movement in SOSF V2 and some other watches. According to reviews, it’s quite crappy movement.
[FONT="]The only hi-beat movement from Dixmont is DG-4813, actually, 2 modifications of this movement – DG-4813H (with tall cannon pinion), and DG-4813L (with shorter cannon pinion). We can see these movements in some of our replicas.
[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]ETA clones:
Highly desirable ETA 2824-2 and ETA 2836-2 were cloned by Seagull factory and Hangzhou factory.
Seagull ST-2100 is the clone of ETA2836-2, ST-2130 – clone of ETA2824-2.
[FONT="]Hangzhou make 6300 movement, clone of 2824-2, and 6311, clone of 2836-2. They also make hi-beat movement 6460, with GMT module. Recently Lianing factory introduced SL3000, the clone of ETA2824-2, but no reliable data available yet.
[/FONT] There’s many reviews, comparing Seagull clones with Hangzhou clones, and the opinion is – both are almost equal quality. But in my personal experiense – Seagull clones way superior to any others.
How to didstinguish genuine movement from clone? Here’s a few clues. (But I might be wrong…)
#1 – notice lack of the stamp on clone.
#2 – position of “DM†stamp is wrong on clone.
#3 – the curve is more flat on clone. On earlier clones this line was completely straight.
[FONT="]#4 – when you’ll wind up the movement manually- you’ll feel the difference immediately. Genuine ETA is way smoother.
[/FONT]
Infamous 3135 clone.
[FONT="]Can’t even call it a “cloneâ€, it’s so far from genuine Rolex 3135, that even a noob with zero experiense will see the difference. The reliability of this ovement is questionable. ETA hands will fit this movement, because it’s based on ETA2836-2, but look won’t fit for sure. Damn, they couldn’t even make “3135†engraving in line…
Genuine Rolex 3135:
Clone:
[/FONT] Miyota 9015.
Last year Miyota introduced the new, hi-beat movement, M9015, with 24 jewels, and hacking mechanism.
[FONT="]Replicas factories already use this movement in some of our watches. Excellent alternative to the clones, and for today’s price of only $38 it’s a steal.
[/FONT] Valjoux/ETA 7750 and 7753 clones:
[FONT="]The best A7750 and A7753 come from Shanghai Watch Co. Others (Liaoning, for example) tried to make similar clones, but didn’t go farther, than making low beat chrono movements. Even old Shanghai clones were low beat, but now they make a whole line of 3L chrono movements, that replicas factories use in our watches.
The difference between A7750 and A7753 is the subdials layout. A7750 has 6-9-12 subdials layout, with seconds @9, and A7750 has 3-6-9 layout, with seconds @9 too. Any attempts to transfer seconds to 3, 6, or 12 position, usually (not always!!!) create a “ticking bomb†movement, because these “modifications†were made without adding new jewels, and “metal on metal†friction usually leads to movement’s death. Buying such a watch is always the risky business.
[/FONT]We heard about “Modified 29 jewels A7750â€, but, after some detailed investigations by some great modders, and was said, that there’s no any extra jewels in movement. And here we have one little mystery…
[FONT="]GenuineValjoux 7750/7753 have 25/27 jewels. Surprisingly, according to Shanghai Factory technical drawings and catalog – A7750 has 30 jewels, and A7753 has 35 jewels. I’ve talked to Shanghai Technical Dept. representative recently, and he confirmed it.
There’s one more Seagull chrono movement, that rep. factories use in watches, like Breitling Navitimer, and our dealers claim it as A7750, but it’s 3LZF3-4, with 3-6-9 subdials layout, but Date regulated thru crown, not by pusher @10, like on A7753.
[FONT="][FONT="]There’s a few more Valjoux 77XX movements, like 7758 (Con Cours De Luna), or 7751-2, with full calendar and real moonphase, but there’s no good replications of these movements exist.
[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
BIG DATE A7750:
[FONT="]We all know Breitling for Bentley replica, that has the movement with big date @12, claimed by our dealers to be A7750. Wrong. No such a model of A7750 exist. What does exist, it’s Shanghai 3LZF12 movement, with 19 jewels. Very reliable engine, by the way.
[/FONT] Manual movements – Unitas 6497/6498, and Venus 175.
[FONT="]Unitas 6497 is the most popular movements in many Panerai replicas. Made at Seagull factory (ST-3600). It has 17 jewels, seconds subdial at 9, and it’s very reliable movement. 6498 model also has 17 jewels, but seconds subdial at 6. I’ve seen many of highly decorated 6497s, made by various movement manufacturers in Europe.
Our clones ain’t bad too!!!
Venus 175 (mistakenly called “Lemaniaâ€) clone is made by Seagull, and the simplest model is ST-1901, with 23 jewels, and 2 chrono subdials. The most complicated is ST-1908, with 3 subdials, and real moonphase.
There’s also ST-1902, ST-1903, 4, 5, etc, some with power reserve indicator, date, etc. In general ST19 series is the most reliable line of manual movements ever. Seagull also make ST-1940, same movement, as ST-1901, but automatic. In my last conversation with Seagull people, I was told, that this movement production was put on hold.
[/FONT] GMT movements.
To put the end to debate about “fefurbished movements with GMT modulesâ€, as well, as to “refurbished ETA movements†in our replicas, I should say – most of the factories produce in-house GMT movements, designed with GMT function.
Some are low beat, most are hi-beat.
[FONT="]Seagull ST-1690 GMT, low beat:
Seagull ST-6322 GMT, hi-beat:
Hangzhou 6460, GMT, hi-beat:
Guangzhou Dixmont – DG-3804 series, low beat:
[/FONT]
Other popular movements.
[FONT="]Seagull ST-2530, automatic movement with Power Reserve module, designed by Seagull, and used in PAM090, IWC Big Pilot, and many other replicas. Easily recognizable by distrinct balance wheel holder.
[FONT="]Seagull ST-1655, automatic movements with year/month/day/date/moonphase, often used in Patek Philippe Complications watches (this is not a modified 21j!!!)
And, finally, [FONT="]Seagull ST-1722 – low beat movement with jumping hours hand, used in our beloved Franck Muller “Crazy Hours†watch.
[FONT="]I didn’t write too much of technical information, like hands sizes, etc, because you can steal and enlarge the drawings, and you’ll see all the details, if interested. I also didn’t translate chinese text on some drawing, I’m sure, most of you can read chinese.
[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]So, that’s all for now. Enjoy!!!
Oh, and congratulations to Luth with his 4000th post!
[FONT="]
[/FONT]