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My sub is leaking from Crystal

Sub7

Horology Curious
24/10/18
24
2
0
Italy
Hello,
My sub is leaking and I cannot find any tutotial for waterproofing the crystal of submariner (all links i found are broken), i have greased back case and crown gaskets but that's not enought.
I just want to be able to wash my hands without taking my watch off..!

Any help?

Thanks
 

Rx4Time

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First question I have is how do you know for sure it's leaking? Was a test in a pressure tester performed? What maker is it? The first step would be to try reseating the crystal. If that doesn't work you can pick up gen spec crystals from suppliers such as essenger, startimesupply, etc. Also if water has made into the case, you should consider having the movement serviced as water and watch movements don't usually mix well.
 

Sub7

Horology Curious
24/10/18
24
2
0
Italy
Hello,
i am not sure that is leaking from crystal, this is what i think since gaskets back case and crown gaskets are okay (greased with sylicon grease).
it is an arf.
I will build a pressure tester today and check from where it leaks.
I can see some "fog" under the crystal, that Just by washing hands :/

Do i need to service the movement?
I am not sure my ws know how to waterproof a sub.
 

Sub7

Horology Curious
24/10/18
24
2
0
Italy
I forgot to say that after i seen the fog i took off the back case, stopped the movement and placed it inside a humidity extractor.

Thanks
 

Rx4Time

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Presence of a fog under the crystal does not necessarily indicate there is a leak. You could have just as easily introduced moisture into the case when you opened the case back to grease the seals. the cheapest and easiest way to handle this is to place a bed of rice in a airtight container open the case back set the watch face down on top of the rice and seal the container overnight. The rice will act as a desiccant and help remove any moisture present from the case. After this is done you can then look into pressure testing it. In my experience very few watches I have tested had issues where they're not water resistant from the manufacturer. I've only had one that leaked from the crystal gasket, and that leak only occurred above 3 atmospheres of pressure. I've had more issues with the crown leaking then with the crystal gasket leaking. If you do pressure test it remember some air can get trapped under the bezel insert, so review some videos and familiarize yourself. The presence of a leak would be indicated by a slow steady stream of bubbles not a couple of large bubbles that occur when it's first submerged.
 
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Sub7

Horology Curious
24/10/18
24
2
0
Italy
Thank you very much for your precious advices.
It is possible that the grease got a Small amount of water in it and generated that fog? Maybe i've put too much grease.
 

Jackster

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8/1/17
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Paradise! (SE Qld)
I'm very interested in this topic,
I have bought a Noob A2836 V9 Sub (not in my hands yet) and I know it has failed a pressure test at 3Bar. I would like to remove the back and check/grease the gasket plus the crown gaskets. Would new gaskets be a wise decision (if so does anyone where can I get them from? Preferably in Australia). Im assuming I need gaskets for an A2836 crown & tube, not Rolex ones??

Also the case back remover tool (( https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Profess...l-Kit-Box-AU/311815168831?hash=item4899a1e33f )) Sorry don't know how to get an ebay link!!! Will this tool suffice? If it turns out the leak is from the crystal is it just easier to get a modder to replace with a decent one and WR it for me? (Anyone know an Aussie Modder?

all input appreciated thanks
 

Sub7

Horology Curious
24/10/18
24
2
0
Italy
Hello,
Why you want to replace the gaskeys?
Unless they are missing/ruined just grease them with solicon based grease.
You can use a ball to open and close the back case.
That wrench would be perfect but for "one time use' is not worth imo.
It is a second hand Watch ?


My sub didnt leak from the crystal but from the crown!

I build my own pressure tester but... It does not work as i expeted so i tested my Watch at local ws.
 
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Jackster

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Hello,
Why you want to replace the gaskeys?
Unless they are missing/ruined just grease them with solicon based grease.
You can use a ball to open and close the back case.
That wrench would be perfect but for "one time use' is not worth imo.
It is a second hand Watch ?


My sub didnt leak from the crystal but from the crown!

I build my own pressure tester but... It does not work as i expeted so i tested my Watch at local ws.

Yes, i'm going to grease them first, as you say I'll try a ball before I invest in a wrench...(dumb question, what kind of ball?) watch is new, should come tomorrow!

QUESTION TO ALL... I figure a Sub is only going to leak from one of three places right? ie Plexi, Crown, Back. I'm a little nervous to wet test, but will If I have to. Has anyone dry pressurised a watch and then applied soapy bubbles to the three areas. Wouldn't this show a leak without the need to submerge the watch in water? Then you could first attempt to fix the leak, if the second test showed no bubbles you could then pressurise the watch to a higher pressure and do a third test, if then no bubbles you could do a wet test to make sure, by pressurising the watch on the final wet test to a higher amount their would be less chance of water ingress if their was a leak, also dry testing would check to see if the plexi pops off.

No idea what i'm talking about so input would be appreciated!
 

Jackster

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Can anyone comment on this pic pls?

It says it's a pass at 3Bar, the deformation rate is +126 (i'm assuming this is the measurement of the plexi deformation to show it is under pressure) however what does the leak rate of 2.1% mean (isn't that a leak? so how does it pass?)

How much pressure can a watch take before the plexi pops? And how would one make it waterproof if it leaks? I would like my watch to be waterproof at the bottom of my pool at least, deeper would be better???

Screen-Shot-2018-11-08-at-6.19.04-am-2-copyd4673a764bd84556.png
 

Sub7

Horology Curious
24/10/18
24
2
0
Italy
Hello,
i am not an expert, others will help you.

But i like that thing about soapy bubbles, i have fixed my pressure test device and i might try with some watches i have. However i am pretty sure that for some reason it will not be the same.

Anyone know more about?
 

Rx4Time

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So how do you fix a crystal leak anyhow?

With a ceramic sub, carefully. If the crystal gasket is leaking, the first step is to try and reseat it. The leak could be due to the crystal not being pressed in correctly, or due to issues with machining. Because of the ceramic insert, this is a task you might want to defer to a watchsmith for.

As far as the soapy bubbles, this is not recommended in a dry pressure test and can damage the equipment. Also, by adding soapy bubbles, that could potentially introduce moisture in the case. A dry pressure test only looks at the deflection of the crystal by first pressurizing and then depressurizing the vessel. A positive deflection of the crystal is normal. The concern is when a vacuum is introduced if the deflection of the crystal swings to negative (IE the pressure inside the case drops below baseline at 1 ATM), then you have a definite leak. Only a wet pressure test will allow you to pinpoint the source(s) of the leak. if you have a confirmed leaking piece, it would be advisable to remove the movement. If you are unsure, you can test with the movement in place, just be attentive and if you see a steady stream of bubbles, pull it out of the water before the pressure inside equalizes. Water will not enter until after pressure equalizes. Bear in mind that some air might be trapped under the bezel, so don't panic if you see a couple of large bubbles develop. A stream of small bubbles are what you are looking for. I posted a couple of random pictures I've taken of pressure tests for your reference.

My 088, you will notice one bubble forming from under the bezel....
IMG_20170526_230743.jpg


LMPO, if you look closely, you will see one bubble starting to form from under the bezel by the crown.
IMG_20170726_151453e17620676aaa1527.jpg



WM9 yachtmaster
IMG_20180820_1018405b838c20323cf8e4.jpg

IMG_20180820_101827895b4b7554b9e0d3.jpg



My 243. This is the most pronounced case of bubbles from under the bezel I've encountered. I tested it a second time after this and it passed without any additional bubbles, so they were all from under the bezel...

IMG_20180820_09172460838ca5c2f969a0.jpg
 
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Jackster

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Bugger, just wrote a long post and lost it!!
Many thanks for photos.
Is that an eBay tester that can test to 6Bar? What's it like.
My Sub C arrived this morning and is currently at the WS getting bracelet resized, seals greased and a WR wet test done. He can only test to 3Bar but I suppose if it passes this is OK for the pool?? I'll find out this arvo if I need to do more work on it.
Q: The LMPO, is the He valve waterproofed from the outside or does it have to be done from the inside? Did it hold up eventually?


 

Rx4Time

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Bugger, just wrote a long post and lost it!!
Many thanks for photos.
Is that an eBay tester that can test to 6Bar? What's it like.
My Sub C arrived this morning and is currently at the WS getting bracelet resized, seals greased and a WR wet test done. He can only test to 3Bar but I suppose if it passes this is OK for the pool?? I'll find out this arvo if I need to do more work on it.
Q: The LMPO, is the He valve waterproofed from the outside or does it have to be done from the inside? Did it hold up eventually?



Yes, its a standard cheap (ish) eBay tester. The LMPO passed 5 ATM without anything done to the He valve. I did place a drop of epoxy in it's threads to keep it from unscrewing. If a watch I've tested has passed 3 ATM I wouldn't worry about swimming in a pool with it.
 
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Vvvlllooo

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What other steps should be taken if leaking from crystal? After you have tried to reseat the crystal?
 
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